clutch kit
Thread Starter
Heel & Toe
Joined: Sep 2016
Posts: 17
Likes: 0
clutch kit
so after realizing that I am now ***** deep into a repair vs a fluid flush, I ordered a clutch kit...I ended up ordering a McLeod Street pro clutch kit w/steel billet flywheel, 400hp.....along with a new slave and borg warner synchros, bearings and seals...I am hoping I ordered decent materials...anybody used these brands? If so did you have good luck?
Anyone have any suggestions of anything else we should do why we are doing this?
Anyone have any suggestions of anything else we should do why we are doing this?
Tech Contributor
Joined: Dec 1999
Posts: 32,910
Likes: 2,402
From: Anthony TX
CI 6,7,8,9,11 Vet
St. Jude Donor '08
so after realizing that I am now ***** deep into a repair vs a fluid flush, I ordered a clutch kit...I ended up ordering a McLeod Street pro clutch kit w/steel billet flywheel, 400hp.....along with a new slave and borg warner synchros, bearings and seals...I am hoping I ordered decent materials...anybody used these brands? If so did you have good luck?
Anyone have any suggestions of anything else we should do why we are doing this?
Anyone have any suggestions of anything else we should do why we are doing this?
YES,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,
There are TONS of stuff that you are leaving out.You stated "borg warner synchros, bearings and seals" Are you rebuilding the transmission too?????
YOU MUST replace the PILOT BEARING!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! The PROPER WAY!!
Really should disassemble the Torque Tube and inspect the rubber couplers and check the TT Bearings.
Remote bleeder KIT!!!
Differential output shaft seals
New Clutch Master cylinder
New Throw Out Bearing
NOTE and WARNING! Installing a new FLYWHEEL may cause unwanted engine/drive train vibrations due to the fact that the FACTORY conducted an ADDITIONAL HOT BALANCE procedure on the OEM flywheel at engine test.
Your OEM flywheel may have off set balance pins installed in the outer rim that was used to fine tune the NM6/.MN12 drivetrain so you don't feel any vibrations.
Check the OEM flywheel and see if you have off set balance pins installed and see if you need to have the NEW FLYWHEEL "Of Set Balanced" to match the old OEM flywheel balance.
NOTE2 and WARNING! You will need to do the clutch "AIR GAP" critical measurements to determine IF,,,,,,,,, you need to add "SHIM" behind the clutch slave cylinder to achieve the correct air gap for the aftermarket clutch.
FAILURE to do so may result in clutch slippage and or improper clutch peddle engagement and doing the entire job OVER AGAIN!
Tell us more about this transmission repair stuff
Bill
Thread Starter
Heel & Toe
Joined: Sep 2016
Posts: 17
Likes: 0
thanks for all the info-that was a lot to absorb!!! LOL ...I am having a tranny guy do all the work. I am unfamiliar with all this..after I posted this I text him asking about the remote bleeder and haven't heard back yet...my synchro for 2nd gear was messed up so he is ordering the warner kit to address that....I believe he is in fact replacing the throw out bearing but I am uncertain about the pilot bearing bearing...the kit included a new flywheel I believe...he will be putting in a new slave cylinder ...where can I order output shaft seals and where can I get the remote bleeder?
HOLY CRAP!
YES,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,, There are TONS of stuff that you are leaving out.
You stated "borg warner synchros, bearings and seals" Are you rebuilding the transmission too?????
YOU MUST replace the PILOT BEARING!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! The PROPER WAY!!
Really should disassemble the Torque Tube and inspect the rubber couplers and check the TT Bearings.
Remote bleeder KIT!!!
Differential output shaft seals
New Clutch Master cylinder
New Throw Out Bearing
NOTE and WARNING! Installing a new FLYWHEEL may cause unwanted engine/drive train vibrations due to the fact that the FACTORY conducted an ADDITIONAL HOT BALANCE procedure on the OEM flywheel at engine test.
Your OEM flywheel may have off set balance pins installed in the outer rim that was used to fine tune the NM6/.MN12 drivetrain so you don't feel any vibrations.
Check the OEM flywheel and see if you have off set balance pins installed and see if you need to have the NEW FLYWHEEL "Of Set Balanced" to match the old OEM flywheel balance.
NOTE2 and WARNING! You will need to do the clutch "AIR GAP" critical measurements to determine IF,,,,,,,,, you need to add "SHIM" behind the clutch slave cylinder to achieve the correct air gap for the aftermarket clutch.
FAILURE to do so may result in clutch slippage and or improper clutch peddle engagement and doing the entire job OVER AGAIN!
Tell us more about this transmission repair stuff
Bill
YES,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,
There are TONS of stuff that you are leaving out.You stated "borg warner synchros, bearings and seals" Are you rebuilding the transmission too?????
YOU MUST replace the PILOT BEARING!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! The PROPER WAY!!
Really should disassemble the Torque Tube and inspect the rubber couplers and check the TT Bearings.
Remote bleeder KIT!!!
Differential output shaft seals
New Clutch Master cylinder
New Throw Out Bearing
NOTE and WARNING! Installing a new FLYWHEEL may cause unwanted engine/drive train vibrations due to the fact that the FACTORY conducted an ADDITIONAL HOT BALANCE procedure on the OEM flywheel at engine test.
Your OEM flywheel may have off set balance pins installed in the outer rim that was used to fine tune the NM6/.MN12 drivetrain so you don't feel any vibrations.
Check the OEM flywheel and see if you have off set balance pins installed and see if you need to have the NEW FLYWHEEL "Of Set Balanced" to match the old OEM flywheel balance.
NOTE2 and WARNING! You will need to do the clutch "AIR GAP" critical measurements to determine IF,,,,,,,,, you need to add "SHIM" behind the clutch slave cylinder to achieve the correct air gap for the aftermarket clutch.
FAILURE to do so may result in clutch slippage and or improper clutch peddle engagement and doing the entire job OVER AGAIN!
Tell us more about this transmission repair stuff
Bill
Drifting
Joined: May 2007
Posts: 1,545
Likes: 209
From: Huntersville, NC
add a new pilot bearing to the list for sure.
A new slave should come with a T/O bearing on it, OEM always does as far as I know.
The stock clutch would have served you well, and probably would have matched up with no need for shimming.
I would think again about JUST replacing 2nd gear synchro. Usually when ground up metal circulates in a tranny, other stuff is compromised. If I open a trans, it gets all renewable parts replaced, and a good good cleaning.
Bill is correct about the balance weights, they are also in the harmonic balancer. The weights need to go in the same hole with respect to the old flywheel.
A new slave should come with a T/O bearing on it, OEM always does as far as I know.
The stock clutch would have served you well, and probably would have matched up with no need for shimming.
I would think again about JUST replacing 2nd gear synchro. Usually when ground up metal circulates in a tranny, other stuff is compromised. If I open a trans, it gets all renewable parts replaced, and a good good cleaning.
Bill is correct about the balance weights, they are also in the harmonic balancer. The weights need to go in the same hole with respect to the old flywheel.
Thread Starter
Heel & Toe
Joined: Sep 2016
Posts: 17
Likes: 0
He bought a synchro kit to replace all of the them I believe....I appreciate the help! I just spoke with him and he said he will be checking all the areas out that you guys pointed out and see to it we wont have to do it again....
Tech Contributor
Joined: Dec 1999
Posts: 32,910
Likes: 2,402
From: Anthony TX
CI 6,7,8,9,11 Vet
St. Jude Donor '08
There are a bunch of MN6 parts that need to be up-graded. Shift Fork Pads. (some install bronze pads) Reverse gear synchros (they fail a lot.)
A good transmission tech can take all the critical measurements and inspect the condition of internal parts and replace what is necessary.
BC
A good transmission tech can take all the critical measurements and inspect the condition of internal parts and replace what is necessary.
BC
Racer
Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 296
Likes: 33
From: Virginia Beach VA
HOLY CRAP!
YES,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,, There are TONS of stuff that you are leaving out.
You stated "borg warner synchros, bearings and seals" Are you rebuilding the transmission too?????
YOU MUST replace the PILOT BEARING!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! The PROPER WAY!!
Really should disassemble the Torque Tube and inspect the rubber couplers and check the TT Bearings.
Remote bleeder KIT!!!
Differential output shaft seals
New Clutch Master cylinder
New Throw Out Bearing
NOTE and WARNING! Installing a new FLYWHEEL may cause unwanted engine/drive train vibrations due to the fact that the FACTORY conducted an ADDITIONAL HOT BALANCE procedure on the OEM flywheel at engine test.
Yes!
However, you also need to be concerned with the Pressure Plate. The hot balance is done after installing BOTH the Flywheel AND Pressure Plate. Vibrations are measured, weights are added to the FW (and front damper) if needed. Yes, they are only adding the weights to the FW, BUT the Pressure Plate is ALSO installed and spinning. The Pressure Plate has its own imbalance tolerance (which, by the way, is LARGER than the Flywheel). So, the weights added to the Flywheel are compensating for imbalance contributions from the engine internals, the Flywheel itself, AND the Pressure Plate. They all become one unique subassembly. If you replace the Flywheel, and match balance it only to the original Flywheel, then pair it with a totally different Pressure Plate, you no longer have a combo that matches your original combo, and pairs correctly with the engine internals. So, get your FW AND PP combo matched to your original FW AND PP combo. The easiest way is to have your original FW and PP spun up together as an assembly, read state of balance, then duplicate that to the new FW and PP together. Only duplicating the FW is only half the battle.
Your OEM flywheel may have off set balance pins installed in the outer rim that was used to fine tune the NM6/.MN12 drivetrain so you don't feel any vibrations.
If present, they will be flush or below flush in one or more of the 12 equally spaced circumferential through holes of the flywheel. Look at these 12 holes. If you can't see through them, they have a weight in them!
Check the OEM flywheel and see if you have off set balance pins installed and see if you need to have the NEW FLYWHEEL "Of Set Balanced" to match the old OEM flywheel balance.
The new FW and PP combo should ideally be matched to the original FW and PP combo, REGARDLESS if you have weights in the original FW or not. Remember, each piece has its own unique balance tolerances. When put together, they all combine. The absence of balance weights only means that when the original FW and PP were put together, their combined balance (with the engine internals) did not require additional corrective weights. A new FW and PP will have their own balance tolerances, so their combined balance can and will be different, even though slightly. So, the absence of balance weights in the original FW does not mean you can just install a new FW and PP straight out of the box (if you are trying to match the original)
NOTE2 and WARNING! You will need to do the clutch "AIR GAP" critical measurements to determine IF,,,,,,,,, you need to add "SHIM" behind the clutch slave cylinder to achieve the correct air gap for the aftermarket clutch.
FAILURE to do so may result in clutch slippage and or improper clutch peddle engagement and doing the entire job OVER AGAIN!
Tell us more about this transmission repair stuff
Bill
YES,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,
There are TONS of stuff that you are leaving out.You stated "borg warner synchros, bearings and seals" Are you rebuilding the transmission too?????
YOU MUST replace the PILOT BEARING!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! The PROPER WAY!!
Really should disassemble the Torque Tube and inspect the rubber couplers and check the TT Bearings.
Remote bleeder KIT!!!
Differential output shaft seals
New Clutch Master cylinder
New Throw Out Bearing
NOTE and WARNING! Installing a new FLYWHEEL may cause unwanted engine/drive train vibrations due to the fact that the FACTORY conducted an ADDITIONAL HOT BALANCE procedure on the OEM flywheel at engine test.
Yes!
However, you also need to be concerned with the Pressure Plate. The hot balance is done after installing BOTH the Flywheel AND Pressure Plate. Vibrations are measured, weights are added to the FW (and front damper) if needed. Yes, they are only adding the weights to the FW, BUT the Pressure Plate is ALSO installed and spinning. The Pressure Plate has its own imbalance tolerance (which, by the way, is LARGER than the Flywheel). So, the weights added to the Flywheel are compensating for imbalance contributions from the engine internals, the Flywheel itself, AND the Pressure Plate. They all become one unique subassembly. If you replace the Flywheel, and match balance it only to the original Flywheel, then pair it with a totally different Pressure Plate, you no longer have a combo that matches your original combo, and pairs correctly with the engine internals. So, get your FW AND PP combo matched to your original FW AND PP combo. The easiest way is to have your original FW and PP spun up together as an assembly, read state of balance, then duplicate that to the new FW and PP together. Only duplicating the FW is only half the battle.
Your OEM flywheel may have off set balance pins installed in the outer rim that was used to fine tune the NM6/.MN12 drivetrain so you don't feel any vibrations.
If present, they will be flush or below flush in one or more of the 12 equally spaced circumferential through holes of the flywheel. Look at these 12 holes. If you can't see through them, they have a weight in them!
Check the OEM flywheel and see if you have off set balance pins installed and see if you need to have the NEW FLYWHEEL "Of Set Balanced" to match the old OEM flywheel balance.
The new FW and PP combo should ideally be matched to the original FW and PP combo, REGARDLESS if you have weights in the original FW or not. Remember, each piece has its own unique balance tolerances. When put together, they all combine. The absence of balance weights only means that when the original FW and PP were put together, their combined balance (with the engine internals) did not require additional corrective weights. A new FW and PP will have their own balance tolerances, so their combined balance can and will be different, even though slightly. So, the absence of balance weights in the original FW does not mean you can just install a new FW and PP straight out of the box (if you are trying to match the original)
NOTE2 and WARNING! You will need to do the clutch "AIR GAP" critical measurements to determine IF,,,,,,,,, you need to add "SHIM" behind the clutch slave cylinder to achieve the correct air gap for the aftermarket clutch.
FAILURE to do so may result in clutch slippage and or improper clutch peddle engagement and doing the entire job OVER AGAIN!
Tell us more about this transmission repair stuff
Bill
I'd only like to add to/correct a small part
See above in red
Racer
Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 296
Likes: 33
From: Virginia Beach VA
add a new pilot bearing to the list for sure.
A new slave should come with a T/O bearing on it, OEM always does as far as I know.
The stock clutch would have served you well, and probably would have matched up with no need for shimming.
I would think again about JUST replacing 2nd gear synchro. Usually when ground up metal circulates in a tranny, other stuff is compromised. If I open a trans, it gets all renewable parts replaced, and a good good cleaning.
Bill is correct about the balance weights, they are also in the harmonic balancer. The weights need to go in the same hole with respect to the old flywheel.
Transferring the old balance weights to the same locations is correct for the harmonic damper/balancer.
Transferring weights from the original FW to the new FW IS NOT the best way to maintain your original FW/PP combo balance. Doing this ignores the different (beginning) imbalance of the new flywheel alone, and it completely ignores the contributions of the pressure plate. Early versions of the service manuals instructed you to transfer the weights to a new flywheel, then (in 2002) the language changed to NOT transfer weights. Now they completely "punted" on this issue, because they didn't say anything new about how to better match the engine assembly balance, but that is another gripe for another time.
Most aftermarket flywheels WILL NOT even have the 12 balance weight receptacle holes anyway. So the only way to match balance is through a machine/balance shop anyway. Good luck getting someone to understand it.
If your new flywheel actually DOES have these 12 holes, then by all means, transfer the weights, they may get you really close, but STILL check the FW/PP combined balance against the original FW/PP combined balance. The transferred weights may have done the trick, they may have gotten real close, or they may be completely different and you still have to do something else to match the balance of the original combo. It's a crap shoot.
A new slave should come with a T/O bearing on it, OEM always does as far as I know.
The stock clutch would have served you well, and probably would have matched up with no need for shimming.
I would think again about JUST replacing 2nd gear synchro. Usually when ground up metal circulates in a tranny, other stuff is compromised. If I open a trans, it gets all renewable parts replaced, and a good good cleaning.
Bill is correct about the balance weights, they are also in the harmonic balancer. The weights need to go in the same hole with respect to the old flywheel.
Transferring the old balance weights to the same locations is correct for the harmonic damper/balancer.
Transferring weights from the original FW to the new FW IS NOT the best way to maintain your original FW/PP combo balance. Doing this ignores the different (beginning) imbalance of the new flywheel alone, and it completely ignores the contributions of the pressure plate. Early versions of the service manuals instructed you to transfer the weights to a new flywheel, then (in 2002) the language changed to NOT transfer weights. Now they completely "punted" on this issue, because they didn't say anything new about how to better match the engine assembly balance, but that is another gripe for another time.
Most aftermarket flywheels WILL NOT even have the 12 balance weight receptacle holes anyway. So the only way to match balance is through a machine/balance shop anyway. Good luck getting someone to understand it.
If your new flywheel actually DOES have these 12 holes, then by all means, transfer the weights, they may get you really close, but STILL check the FW/PP combined balance against the original FW/PP combined balance. The transferred weights may have done the trick, they may have gotten real close, or they may be completely different and you still have to do something else to match the balance of the original combo. It's a crap shoot.
I'll just add to a little
again, in red
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Burning Brakes
Joined: Jul 2013
Posts: 1,008
Likes: 57
From: Kensington MD
About this--if the old flywheel looks in good shape, is there really any reason to replace it and risk these hot balance issues?
Racer
Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 296
Likes: 33
From: Virginia Beach VA
Some people resurface the flywheel, but the service manual suggests replacement. However, you are replacing the pressure plate, which is part of the balance equation, so there's still a chance of having new vibrations, unless you match balance the whole aasembly to the original assembly.
Tech Contributor
Joined: Dec 1999
Posts: 32,910
Likes: 2,402
From: Anthony TX
CI 6,7,8,9,11 Vet
St. Jude Donor '08
Another important NOTE! DO NOT get rid of your OLD FW and PP until the car is back together and vibration free.
You also need to mark the relation of the old OEM flywheel to the position on the crank.
IF the machine shop does a match balance on your new flywheel, you will need to reference mark it to the old flywheel and them install the new flywheel in the same relation ship to where the old one was on the crank.
You also need to mark the relation of the old OEM flywheel to the position on the crank.
IF the machine shop does a match balance on your new flywheel, you will need to reference mark it to the old flywheel and them install the new flywheel in the same relation ship to where the old one was on the crank.
Thread Starter
Heel & Toe
Joined: Sep 2016
Posts: 17
Likes: 0
great info guys!! We are just at the beginning stages tonight...I ordered a salve cylinder tonight along with the McLeod clutch kit that I already ordered...my trans guy is telling me no need for a master cylinder...I need to know where to order a remote bleeder kit also...I mentioned it to my trans guy and we then were interrupted and off topic..I'll bring it up again tomorrow..what exactly does the remote bleeder kit do?
Tech Contributor
Joined: Dec 1999
Posts: 32,910
Likes: 2,402
From: Anthony TX
CI 6,7,8,9,11 Vet
St. Jude Donor '08
I did a Heads/Cam/Fast90 up grade which made 450 RWHP. Clutch immediately failed. Drivetrain had 45K on the clock. 
I did a complete clutch aft upgrade. New SPEC Dual disk clutch and ALL the clutch component replacements. The master was replaced with a TICK Master Cylinder. Just for security sake..
Just for kicks, I dissected the OEM Master Cyl. HOLY CRAP!! It was FULL of clutch slime! I mean FULL of slime!!!!!!!! What the hell???????????????????? Don't let ANYONE tell you the master doesn't need replacement!!!!!!! Especially if you don't religiously flush the clutch systeM!!!!!!!!!!!
I didn't think so either but,, I'm SURE glad I did!!!!!!
Bill
Drivetrain had 45K on the clock. I did a complete clutch aft upgrade. New SPEC Dual disk clutch and ALL the clutch component replacements. The master was replaced with a TICK Master Cylinder. Just for security sake..
Just for kicks, I dissected the OEM Master Cyl. HOLY CRAP!!
It was FULL of clutch slime! I mean FULL of slime!!!!!!!! What the hell???????????????????? Don't let ANYONE tell you the master doesn't need replacement!!!!!!! Especially if you don't religiously flush the clutch systeM!!!!!!!!!!!I didn't think so either but,, I'm SURE glad I did!!!!!!
Bill