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LOL!! Everyone says bad starter/ Most of the time its a BAD SOLENOID on top of the started. Have some one attempt to start the engine. You find a way to whack the solenoid. If it starts, its a very good chance is a bad solenoid. That being said, the connections on the battery & the starter need to be pristine clean and properly tightened. The starter pulls LOTs "CURRENT" and any loose connection just acts like heater and dissipates all the current at the bad connection.
They all look to be pretty clean. I haven't crawled under her yet to look. I'm
thinking the solenoid would be equally as hard to change as the starter. If what
I've seen is correct. get the car in the air, disconnect the battery, drop exhaust
from manifold to rear. Then you have access to starter/solenoid. Does that
sound about right?
Yes. That's about it. You have to be careful with the wires as they can be old and brittle. Look for heat damage.
If I had to replace the starter, I would get the updated LS Truck starter with the equal size mounting bolts. I think th3 C6 starter has the same equal size mounts. You will need to get another LONG mount bolt & also get a new pig tail with the correct push on solenoid power connector and splice it on to the purple wire that goes to the solenoid if you accomplish the update.
Yes it just as difficult to change just the solenoid as it is the entire starter.
Sounds like I have a few fun filled days under the car. Since I won't be able to do anything
this weekend. Guess I'll start next week after work. Wish me luck. Thanks to all that responded.
Before you go to all the trouble of dropping the starter I would ask you to check if the TDR located above the BCM in the passenger footwell area is being energized, you should hear it click when you turn the key to the start/crank position. If proficient with multimeter I would also check for 12 volts between the purple wire on the TDR socket and ground when the key is turned to the start position. That purple wire is the wire that connects to the switch terminal on the starter solenoid, if 12v is on the purple wire, you will have to drop the starter.
Not a big fan of private messages, so posting here. The Theft Deterrent Relay, TDR is located above the BCM behind the toe board in the passenger footwell area, there is also a fuse box.
The TDR sends 12 volts to the starter solenoid when the key is turned to the start position, on your first post you do mention that you here a click, so it may very well be your starter solenoid is bad. There is a test that proves the problem is the starter solenoid, momentarily jumper between the heavy gauge red and purple wire on the TDR socket with a heavy gauge wire jumper, but make sure that your car is in park or neutral because doing this bypasses the cars safety interlocks.
Damn. This is timely. Started my car last Tuesday. Drove to the store and back.
Got in it today and nothing. Showed it had less than 12 volts. Charged battery for
about 45 mins and still nothing. Put my charger on start and still nothing. No click
or anything. Dash lights dim and come back after release of the key. Battery is
about 3 yejiars old. I drive it every weekend usually several hundred miles per weekend.
Never any problems before. Any other thoughts? Starter?
Thanks all help appreciated.
I may be wrong here, but didn't BC and/or C5diag say to make sure terminals are clean at BOTH ends? If not, I will. The ground cable at the opposite end of the battery terminal, and the positive terminal on the starter are both as important at that end as they are at the battery. Get some abrasive, coarse emory cloth. Disconnect both cables at the battery. Then remove the terminals at the starter and block (I think the negative cable goes to the block on a C5). Use the emery cloth to rough up BOTH sides of each terminal. Also use it to rough up the mounting points on the starter and block. Then spray with contact cleaner or brake cleaner. Tighten both terminals, and ONLY THEN put a thin coat of dielectric grease to protect against rust and corrosion. Then attach both cables to the battery, and see if it cranks......
Last edited by grinder11; Oct 9, 2020 at 03:06 PM.
Reason: Spell and more info to add
Checked both ends of cables. Cleaned and reassembled. No dice. So I
then dropped the starter and took it to both Autozone and O'reillys for testing.
Both said it passed the test. But one place said it doesn't sound good. When
handling the starter you can hear things moving around. So my question is
Can it test good and still be bad? Mentioned that maybe under a load it's not
strong enough to turn the engine over. Is that possible?
ok. Checked the purple solenoid wire down by the starter and no power
when turning the key. Fuse marked starter is good. The big purple wire
at the box above the BCM has no power while turning key to start. So
what does that mean? Ignition switch? Any help appreciated. Also the
fuse marked starter is live all the time. Is that right?
The fuse marked starter is hot all the time, the very first thing you have to verify is that the TDR is being energized when you turn the key to the start position, you should hear it click. The TDR relay coil is provided 12volts from the ignition switch, which passes thru the Park safety switch if Auto, or clutch depressed safety switch if standard. The negative side of the TDR coil is provided a ground by the BCM if the VATS system is OK. Is your Security light off when you try to start the car?
The fuse marked starter is hot all the time, the very first thing you have to verify is that the TDR is being energized when you turn the key to the start position, you should hear it click. The TDR relay coil is provided 12volts from the ignition switch, which passes thru the Park safety switch if Auto, or clutch depressed safety switch if standard. The negative side of the TDR coil is provided a ground by the BCM if the VATS system is OK. Is your Security light off when you try to start the car?
The security light is off when I press the brake and turn the key.
Now I didn't reinstall the starter and the wires that go to it are taped
off. Key in on position Key being turned to start
What your looking at is the socket where the TDR plugs into, the small gauge yellow wires are the TDR coil wires, the heavy gauge red is your fused starter power, and the purple of course is the wire that connects to the starter solenoid, The contacts inside the TDR close when it is energized and send 12v to the starter solenoid.
What your looking at is the socket where the TDR plugs into, the small gauge yellow wires are the TDR coil wires, the heavy gauge red is your fused starter power, and the purple of course is the wire that connects to the starter solenoid, The contacts inside the TDR close when it is energized and send 12v to the starter solenoid.
The purple wire has no power at that socket on the side you can see at any time.
Even with the foot on the brake and key turned to start. Is the relay behind the socket?
I did find and relay marked IGN in the fuse box under the hood. Would that play some
roll in this?
Last edited by larney; Oct 16, 2020 at 12:17 PM.
Reason: correction
Try this test:
Small YELLOW WIRE = TRD Coll Power- When you attempt to crank the engine (AUTO - foot on brake, Park/ Neutral, Ignition switch held in CRANK Position) that wire should have battery voltage.
Small YELLOW/BLACK STRIPE WIRE = When the BCM Security is complete (VATS Satisfied, etc) this wire goes to BCM Ground to complete the circuit to energize the TRD Relay so it can close and pass high current/voltage to the starter solenoid (power on the purple wire.
NOTE!! You can ground the yellow/black stripe wire and by-pass the security requirement. If you ground that wire and then (AUTO - foot on brake, Park/ Neutral, Ignition switch held in CRANK Position), if you had a security issue, the TDR would energize and the engine would/should crank.
NEXT TEST!
NOTE!! WARNING!!! CAR MUST BE IN PARK, E BRAKE ON!! Do this under your own risk. If the car is in gear it could/will move under its own power!
Use a jumper wire and jump between the heavy gage RED WIRE and the heavy gage PURPLE WIRE. If everything is good, the starter will engage and turn over the engine. If you have the ignition key in ON/RUN, the engine should crank and RUN.
[QUOTE=Bill Curlee;1602350893]Try this test:
Small YELLOW WIRE = TRD Coll Power- When you attempt to crank the engine (AUTO - foot on brake, Park/ Neutral, Ignition switch held in CRANK Position) that wire should have battery voltage. YES IT DOES.
Small YELLOW/BLACK STRIPE WIRE = When the BCM Security is complete (VATS Satisfied, etc) this wire goes to BCM Ground to complete the circuit to energize the TRD Relay so it can close and pass high current/voltage to the starter solenoid (power on the purple wire.
NOTE!! You can ground the yellow/black stripe wire and by-pass the security requirement. If you ground that wire and then (AUTO - foot on brake, Park/ Neutral, Ignition switch held in CRANK Position), if you had a security issue, the TDR would energize and the engine would/should crank. IT DID NOT.
NEXT TEST!
NOTE!! WARNING!!! CAR MUST BE IN PARK, E BRAKE ON!! Do this under your own risk. If the car is in gear it could/will move under its own power!
Use a jumper wire and jump between the heavy gage RED WIRE and the heavy gage PURPLE WIRE. If everything is good, the starter will engage and turn over the engine. If you have the ignition key in ON/RUN, the engine should crank and RUN. HAVENT DONE THIS TEST YET.
I DID TEST THE RELAY AND THERE WERE NO CLICKS.
BAD RELAY?
You have reinstalled the starter I take it? So being that you have battery voltage on the small yellow wire, and you provided a ground to the yellow/black striped wire and the TDR did not click/energize, the only possible reason the TDR does not click on is corrasion on the contacts of the TDR socket, or you have a bad TDR.
Did a couple of test and it appears the relay is bad. Didn't want to
take a chance so ordered the original one on Amazon. I have a guy
that has rebuilt an alternator and fan motor(for my Jag). I'm thinking
of having the starter rebuilt too. He'll charge 80 bucks. When you shake
it there's some noise inside. Might be better to get this taken car of now
while stuff is apart. Will post back next week with updates or questions.
Thanks again for all the help so far.
Larney
