You don't know, Dick. What kind of dyno was it on?

What "vinyl badge" are you speaking of?

 

Dave -

Can you give some more info on your original post. Are you not leaving 2nd? When you say you're losing power - is it uneven through the shift cycle?

I still can't really imagine what's going on here? There's so much pure punch in a vette - regardless of the option package - you should still feel like a rocket.

Clue us in a little.

- Thinker

 

Dyno in 4th then come back. In 1st or second you are not locking up the transmission.

 

God bless the politically incorrect. I'd rather hear honest criticism than phoney praise. Unfortunately, many on this Forum don't feel the same way. Keep it up!

 

No, I don't think you're kidding I take you seriously and strongly disagree.

Your statement that the Z51 is the best performing vette without going to the Z06 is IMO a gigantic stretch. You certainly must be aware that the Z51 auto is the same gearing as the non Z51 gearing. Also, you must be aware that published ( and presumably reliable ) performance figures indicate that the Z51 manual is good for .1 second better in the 1/4 mile than the non Z51 manual.

So, here's the thing. What are stock Z06's running in the 1/4 mile? 1.5 to 2.0 seconds faster than ANY other C6 Z51 or not? Please correct me if I am wrong on this and give me the exact Z06 figures. Let's call it 1.5 seconds faster in the 1/4 mile. OK

So 1.5 seconds is 15 tenths. This means that if the base C6 with manual trans is X then the manual Z51 is X+1 and the Z06 is X+15. This is not a linear plot. Neither the Z51 or the non Z51 is anywhere close to the Z06 and , in fact, they are almost identical to each other.

If you have a Z51 I understand that you want it seen as the top dog in non-Z06 vettes. But IMO the numbers indicate it's almost identical to the base car and hugely off the mark of the Z06.

My conclusion is that any comparison that equates the Z51 as significantly closer to the Z06 in performance than the base car is without merit since it is not.

It would be interesting to locate all the various performance facts relating the the base and Z51 manual cars and the Z06 and compare them. I believe it would be apparent that in the case of all measurable variables such as skip pad, braking distance, etc etc that the base and Z51 would be found to be very close while the Z06 would be found to be radically better.

Hey GM, I've said it before, PLEASE give us a Z51 that includes significantly more hp than the base car - something like 25 or 35 hp minimum. Then Z51 actually will be closer to the Z06 than almost identical to the base car.

After all , and I realize that this must be an unpleasant reality to Z51 devotees, the engine under the Z51 and non Z51 hoods are identical with a capital "I". No difference. The only difference is the much touted and very minor gearing difference in the Z51.

My advice to this new C6 owner is to wait in line and pay the bucks to get a Z06 if you want to go significantly faster. IMO going with Z51 thinking that it will provide a significant, or perhaps even noticeable, increase in speed may not prove to be a winning proposition.

Just my opinions. I stayed away from Z51 because of loud brakes, widely reported harsh ride, type of tire, and excessive tire wear ( not to mention availability ). You should be aware of these problems prior to checking the Z51 box.

Just my humble opinions all statements.

 

I have an '06 F55 MN6 and absolutely love it. I had the opportunity to drive a Z51 for a year and chose the F55. I have added some headers and the 4.10 gearing. I would not change it for anything. My installer has just gotten the HP tuning software and it will be tuned next week. If there is a tenth difference in a stock z51 and f55, I sure can't "feel" it. I am glad I had the year to decide and I feel I made the best choice for me. I feel I have the best of both worlds. I don't track it or take it to the drag strip. I simply enjoy driving it.

 

One other thing and this is just speculation but I'm willing to bet that the HP improvements are going to be much larger in the A6 when they figure out how to tune it. We know TM affects the auto's more than the manuals or atleast that seems to be the consensus. I'm expecting to see some better times as we move into the season. Remeber even though the MN6 has a slightly better ratio the A6 shifts one less time.

 

I think that what I actually said was: "... if you were looking for the best performing C6 without going to the Z06, that the MN6 Z51 was the way to go?"

You must have seen that in actual comparisons of 1/4 mile times, the gap is considerably wider. If there is a bone stock non Z51 manual which has run better than 12.5 then point it out. Find one which has run 12.6.

I know what all the "brochures" and the "salesmen working on commision who do not have Z51 allocations" say about there only being a tenth difference between the MN6 Z51 and the base car.. I'd say the same thing if I had to put food on the table and it meant selling a non Z51 car to someone who was about to leave without buying anything.


No. Thats not OK. And I think this is the source of much of your confusion and inability to accept the stock performance superiority of the Z51 over the base model. 1.5 to 2.0 seconds faster than ANY C6 Z51 is absurd.

The quickest Z51 C6 has run 12.2. 12.2-1.5= 10.7

I have yet to see a report of a 10.7 second bone stock Z06.

The average of the top 5 Z51s is 12.43. 12.43-1.5 =10.93.

I don't think that the quickest C6 Z06s here are averaging 10.93 in the quarter. Do you?

Heres a thread on them.

http://forums.corvetteforum.com/show...6&forum_id=100

The idea in the preceding paragraph of your post is baseless. Preposterous. So it follows that this one is as well. Since it too, is based upon the same inane line of reasoning and outlandish numbers. Those numbers are so far off as to not even be worthy of discussion.

Well looking at "your" numbers I can see why you feel as you do and why your ideas are what they are. But it has been a while since I have seen such baseless "logic" supported with completely absurd figures. If you think that a Z06 is 1.5 to 2.0 seconds quicker than a Z51 C6 you are grossly mistaken.

You arrived at your conclusion without valid knowledge. Thus the only thing here without "merit" is the conclusion you drew.

You're conclusion is flawed. The real world results point this out. You can close your eyes to the facts. But they are still there whether you see them or not.

Well looking at your previous "estimations", please forgive me if I am a bit leery of what you refer to as "minor".

Aren't you the same guy who said:

"As all the recent crashes of brand new Z06's indicate the vette may have reached a performance level that few owners can control safely. I cannot personally comprehend the need to have a Z06 instead of the base car unless a person plans to recklessly endanger innocent fellow drivers on the public roads."

"Of course, there is the status appeal of the car and I suspect that will be the primary reason most people allow themselves to be robbed blind by the dealers with add on markup above msrp. just my opinions".

Well they say attack ideas and not individuals so I am sure glad that you said "opinions" because the numbers you are using to convey the idea of this post are completely without merit.

 

This is turning into ANOTHER pissing match on how big of a difference there is between the Z51, non-Z51 and automatic cars. One person (you know who you are) keeps beating this issue up trying to make out like the difference is significant.

But lets remember one thing. There actually is one person who as driven every variation of the C6 - at the same track and at least very similar conditions. He has made numerous runs until he is pretty sure he has wrung them all out to get the best out of them under at the track and conditions he has to work with. And by all accounts, he is a pretty damn good driver.

His figures show the difference IS 1/10th of a second between Z51 and non-Z51 cars. By the way, he is the factory Corvette test driver. As long as there is one person who has tested them all to within an inch of their lives, why don't we believe the figures that GM has posted for the car?

 

What I don't understand is why the "factory" performance claims can'y be trusted anymore? This reminds me of all the fuss going on when the 04 Z06 came out indicating a HP bump yet GM didn't see fit to increase it for fear of harming their new LS2 (that was the theory).

No one wanted to believe that, yet in dyno after dyno over the months it appers that's exactly what happened. GM tweaked the tuning (I guess they felt after 8 years and countless aftermarket "dyno tunes") that it was safe to take some of the fat out of the fuel trims. Guess what bone stock 04 Z running in the high ELEVEN's. Documented from in a national publication.

http://www.gmhightechperformance.com...es/0410htp_zo/

So GM can and has over the years fudged on performance/HP numbers.

But it sure sounds like the original problem with this car in question could be a transmission issue.

Tom

 

In addition, DSOM Z51 is one of the most literate on this board so whether debating or dragging, check six.



Harry

 

It isn't worth arguing about what amounts to the time it takes to make one keystroke on your computer keyboard.

 

Well said!

 

DSOM Z51 is the reason they added the ignore list.

 

 

If anything I think GM has been pretty consistant in underrating there cars. I would of figured that I would have no better than 320hp at the rear wheels with the A6. I was very surprised to be at 337hp. There is no doubt in my mind the the poster of this thread just needs to dyno in 4th to ensure the tranny is locked up and get an accurate reading.

 

does anyone know if GM has plans to offer a "performance" rear end for the A6?

 

Very well said.

 

I don't think your tuner can tune an 06 yet with HPTuners, unless they release their update between now and next week. There is talk of them releasing support for MN6 2006 Corvettes soon, but 06 support in general is being held up by the new TCM for the A6.

 

But people keep quoting him!