2011's
Team Owner
Joined: Sep 1999
Posts: 41,732
Likes: 1,718
From: Springfield MO
Don't know the answer, but when I was at the plant last Monday, many Grand Sports were being built. I'm guessing that I saw around 15% base coupes/verts on the line, if that many. Z06's were few and far between and not to many ZR1's.
I remember watching the line when they were producing 18/hr. Lots of activity, bunch of workers. Now, at 8.5/hr, everything seems to be in slow motion. Seems to take forever for the line to index and not many people working. Sad.
I remember watching the line when they were producing 18/hr. Lots of activity, bunch of workers. Now, at 8.5/hr, everything seems to be in slow motion. Seems to take forever for the line to index and not many people working. Sad.
Racer
Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 406
Likes: 29
From: Melbourne Victoria
Team Owner
Joined: Sep 1999
Posts: 41,732
Likes: 1,718
From: Springfield MO
The way GM operates, they would most likely still be $200K MSRP from GM for a RHD. Look what they did with the Grand Sport. GM saw people spending $5-6000+ for Z06 body panels and wheel/ties and brakes to make widebodys. GM came out with the factory version, called the Grand Sport, and is charging the high $$$$$$. No way does it costs GM near that much to build a GS over the base C6. They are pricing the GS based on what the market is willing to pay, not based on what it cost to produce + a fair markup.
Le Mans Master
Joined: Oct 2007
Posts: 6,149
Likes: 11
From: Greater Detroit Metro MI, when I'm not travelling.
The way GM operates, they would most likely still be $200K MSRP from GM for a RHD. Look what they did with the Grand Sport. GM saw people spending $5-6000+ for Z06 body panels and wheel/ties and brakes to make widebodys. GM came out with the factory version, called the Grand Sport, and is charging the high $$$$$$. No way does it costs GM near that much to build a GS over the base C6. They are pricing the GS based on what the market is willing to pay, not based on what it cost to produce + a fair markup.
Melting Slicks
Joined: Jan 2004
Posts: 2,246
Likes: 5
From: West Coast
Look what they did with the Grand Sport. GM saw people spending $5-6000+ for Z06 body panels and wheel/ties and brakes to make widebodys. GM came out with the factory version, called the Grand Sport, and is charging the high $$$$$$. No way does it costs GM near that much to build a GS over the base C6. They are pricing the GS based on what the market is willing to pay, not based on what it cost to produce + a fair markup.
Well don't forged a Grand Sport is not just a base C6 with a widebody; it has C6 Z06 big brakes, dry sump oiling (for the manual car), launch control, larger wheels, larger tires, larger swaybars, etc etc... Obviously there is a profit margin in there, but its more than a base car in several ways.
GM is charging $6k more per GS than it did with the base coupe. Let's say it costs GM $500-$1,000 (and I am being generous here) more per car to make it equipped with the GS parts. GM is making a $5k profit over the base car.
People need to remember that the GS is mostly an APPEARANCE package, it does not cost GM much money to make eye candy. That was GM's whole purpose of the GS. It needed to make up for abysmal sales, so it developed the GS. GM raised the MSRP on the base car by developing the GS.
Watch, for 2012, GM will make another "limited edition" or "special edition" car. Heck a 3LT Grand Sport is pushing $70k MSRP.
Last edited by LBear; Sep 28, 2010 at 03:30 PM.
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Brett Foote
Safety Car
Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 4,681
Likes: 2
From: Mooresville (Race City USA) NC
Analytical buyers are sitting on the sidelines and are not spending on compulsive luxuries like GS models that cost extra mainly for widebody appearances and having features more suited for track than street use when 95% of them never see a track. Consumer spending is in the pits and won't improve until the national landscape changes in November. Until then non GS model sales will stagnate.
Le Mans Master
Joined: Mar 2002
Posts: 6,359
Likes: 163
From: Concord NC
Melting Slicks
Joined: Jan 2004
Posts: 2,246
Likes: 5
From: West Coast
Analytical buyers are sitting on the sidelines and are not spending on compulsive luxuries like GS models that cost extra mainly for widebody appearances and having features more suited for track than street use when 95% of them never see a track. Consumer spending is in the pits and won't improve until the national landscape changes in November. Until then non GS model sales will stagnate.
GM should have kept the Z51 ($1,500 option) for the base cars, offered more in incentives/rebates so that the MSRP would come down, and try to get more people to buy with LOWER prices.
Prices for homes, appliances, etc., are being lowered, but GM is raising its prices.
That is what happens when you have a company that went bankrupt just 1 year ago and daddy government bailed their butts out. You don't learn your lesson and repeat the same mistakes over and over and over.
Last edited by LBear; Sep 28, 2010 at 03:59 PM.
Le Mans Master
Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 5,738
Likes: 81
From: Milford NH
The brakes are really not that much more money, the suspension setup is basically the old Z51 which was just a $1,500 option on the base car. The dry sump and the larger wheels/rims is probably the greatest expense, but in mass quantities, they are pennies on the dollar.
GM is charging $6k more per GS than it did with the base coupe. Let's say it costs GM $500-$1,000 (and I am being generous here) more per car to make it equipped with the GS parts. GM is making a $5k profit over the base car.
People need to remember that the GS is mostly an APPEARANCE package, it does not cost GM much money to make eye candy. That was GM's whole purpose of the GS. It needed to make up for abysmal sales, so it developed the GS. GM raised the MSRP on the base car by developing the GS.
Watch, for 2012, GM will make another "limited edition" or "special edition" car. Heck a 3LT Grand Sport is pushing $70k MSRP.
But how much does it cost to do an aftermarket widebody conversion including the Z brakes and wheel and tire combo, suspension components,dry sump? If you have a base model but have to have a Widebody Vette, Gm's $6K Premium seems like a good deal and is Factory OEM.(better resale than a conversion)
Le Mans Master
Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 5,738
Likes: 81
From: Milford NH
Instead of GM LOWERING the price on C6 models, to maybe entice people with LOWER priced C6's. GM goes the other way and RAISES the MSRP on the cars by adding $6k to the price and pushing the GS.
GM should have kept the Z51 ($1,500 option) for the base cars, offered more in incentives/rebates so that the MSRP would come down, and try to get more people to buy with LOWER prices.
Prices for homes, appliances, etc., are being lowered, but GM is raising its prices. That is what happens when you have a company that went bankrupt just 1 year ago and daddy government bailed their butts out. You don't learn your lesson and repeat the same mistakes over and over and over.
GM should have kept the Z51 ($1,500 option) for the base cars, offered more in incentives/rebates so that the MSRP would come down, and try to get more people to buy with LOWER prices.
Prices for homes, appliances, etc., are being lowered, but GM is raising its prices.
That is what happens when you have a company that went bankrupt just 1 year ago and daddy government bailed their butts out. You don't learn your lesson and repeat the same mistakes over and over and over.
Seems affordable to me
Melting Slicks
Joined: Jan 2004
Posts: 2,246
Likes: 5
From: West Coast
But how much does it cost to do an aftermarket widebody conversion including the Z brakes and wheel and tire combo, suspension components,dry sump? If you have a base model but have to have a Widebody Vette, Gm's $6K Premium seems like a good deal and is Factory OEM.(better resale than a conversion)
If you want show and go, then a Z car is where its at. 
OEM is always more expensive. GM marks up its parts like 500%. Ever go to a GM dealer and try to get a GM part? They charge insane amounts. A $30 part costs like $150 at a GM dealer.
As you already know, any after-sale "add-on" will always lose money and have almost no value when it comes to selling the car. That is why some guys strip down their add-on/mods when they get ready to sell because the parts are worth more OFF of the car.
Melting Slicks
Joined: Jan 2004
Posts: 2,246
Likes: 5
From: West Coast
Even then, a 2011 base coupe, bare minimum, stripped down, 1LT manual version, base suspension. Here are the stats:
Brand New 2011 Coupe - Blade Silver with Ebony Interior
Stock # G11163
Equipment/Options Include:
Manual Transmission
1LT Preferred Equipment Group
MSRP $49,900
- Best deal with 12% off of MSRP ($5,988)
= $43,912
Burning Brakes
Joined: Sep 2009
Posts: 762
Likes: 0
From: Central Florida Sunshine State
Yeah, if you like all "show" but not "go" to back it up, then the GS fits the bill. If you want show and go, then a Z car is where its at.
OEM is always more expensive. GM marks up its parts like 500%. Ever go to a GM dealer and try to get a GM part? They charge insane amounts. A $30 part costs like $150 at a GM dealer.
As you already know, any after-sale "add-on" will always lose money and have almost no value when it comes to selling the car. That is why some guys strip down their add-on/mods when they get ready to sell because the parts are worth more OFF of the car.
If you want show and go, then a Z car is where its at. OEM is always more expensive. GM marks up its parts like 500%. Ever go to a GM dealer and try to get a GM part? They charge insane amounts. A $30 part costs like $150 at a GM dealer.
As you already know, any after-sale "add-on" will always lose money and have almost no value when it comes to selling the car. That is why some guys strip down their add-on/mods when they get ready to sell because the parts are worth more OFF of the car.
Melting Slicks
Joined: Jan 2004
Posts: 2,246
Likes: 5
From: West Coast
Dude relax. I also have a 436HP Vette. We were having a discussion. No "bashing". Just because someone has a differing viewpoint, doesn't mean they are "bashing".
For example, I have a base coupe w/Z51. If a Z06 or ZR1 pulls up, I know their cars are much faster, better handling, better overall C6 than my base coupe w/Z51.
Now, did I just "bash" myself? Was I self inflicting? Did I just hate myself?
The OP was asking about base 2011's coupes. Of which are nowhere to be found. I just came back from a GM dealer. The lots are full of GS's. I found ONE base coupe that was sitting in the corner, dirty. Look at the forum dealers. All you see is GS's for sale, with Z06 and ZR1's. The base coupe is not even being mentioned anymore.
The "all show and no go" comment was in reference to a GS vs. Z car in regards to the appearance. They might look the same, but a Z car is still a Z car and a GS is still a 436 HP base coupe. Stating that a GS is basically a Z51 package with a "Z appearance" package is stating the facts and is not "bashing".
Last edited by LBear; Sep 28, 2010 at 05:08 PM.
Race Director
Joined: Sep 2002
Posts: 12,999
Likes: 1
From: Youngstown Ohio
IT HAS THAT CLEAN UNCLUTTERED LOOK...
NO UNNECESSARY SPOILERS, BADGES
OR BULGING PANELS...THE BASE COUPE IS
THE MOST AERODYNAMIC AND
BEST LOOKING C6 MODEL!!!
Burning Brakes
Joined: Jan 2004
Posts: 1,009
Likes: 54
From: slower lower DE
really liked the GS when it first came out and still do but maybe not as much. I kind of like the smaller base model body. Looks more nimble. Its a shame that you can't get the Z51 option as a stand alone.
As far as what it costs GM to add the parts, I am not sure where you all get information that its "pennies on the dollar" etc. While its certainly not the msrp, I find it hard to believe its the margins you all claim. But to that point, with the discounts that you can now get on Vettes, we as buyers are only paying $.80 on the dollar for it anyway. In addition, its well known that the WB upgrade alone with wheels and paint done on non-base cars is a $5-6K mod. And finally in defense of GM, if they cannot find ways to make Vettes profitable, they will stop building them. So if re-packaging and marketing is the price we have to pay, then so be it because we all want Vettes to continue in production. mho.
As far as what it costs GM to add the parts, I am not sure where you all get information that its "pennies on the dollar" etc. While its certainly not the msrp, I find it hard to believe its the margins you all claim. But to that point, with the discounts that you can now get on Vettes, we as buyers are only paying $.80 on the dollar for it anyway. In addition, its well known that the WB upgrade alone with wheels and paint done on non-base cars is a $5-6K mod. And finally in defense of GM, if they cannot find ways to make Vettes profitable, they will stop building them. So if re-packaging and marketing is the price we have to pay, then so be it because we all want Vettes to continue in production. mho.
Safety Car
Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 4,681
Likes: 2
From: Mooresville (Race City USA) NC
It is also 10 MPH faster, gets 2 MPG better mileage, the tires last twice as long and cost less to replace, and you can get down skinny streets and park it easier, plus it doesn't skitter and dart going around lumpy curves or chatter like novelty false teeth going over a washboard road. Beauty is trully in the eye of the beholder.