I have a 2008 Coupe. It's bone stock, but I am considering either an A&A or ECS centrifigual S/C kit.

I am not planning to do headers or exhaust. I just want to bolt on the kit, and go. (Ok, I know it needs to be tuned.)

I am seriously considering adding meth. My primary concern is relabilty, and safety. The extra ponies wouldn't suck, of course, but it's not my primary concern.

Talking to my local tuner, they don't reccomend meth. They claim they can safely tune without meth. They also brought up the idea that if you are tuned for meth, and anything in the meth delivery fails, you could be screwed.

So the question is: Is it safer to have meth, or not to have meth when boosting 7-8 PSI on a stock LS3?

 

You need meth injection. Especially on a stock bottom-end!

Any shop that tells you otherwise has no clue how to tune for it or the advantages of it.

If you are worried about running out of meth on a meth tune, then don't tune for meth... Just add it after the car is tuned and it's an exceptional insurance policy at that point!

Better performance and it's a great insurance policy are just a COUPLE of the MANY reasons to run meth! You'll still see a pickup in HP due to the lowered IATs!

 

Your tuner has NO Idea what they are doing... Find a new tuner asap!!!!!!!!!!! RUN!!!!!!!!!!!
Methanol is sooooooooooooo easy to tune for and you have soooooooooooo many fail safes that it is a nobrainer, PLEASEEEEEEEEEEE find a tuner that has a clue, and enjoy...
I'm soooo fed up with tuners that have no clue how safe methanol is, and claiming how dangerous it is if you have a failure, due to lack of knowledge on the way to tune for it using the safety features built in to our ecm's... There is soooo much info on this forum to teach them how to tune for methanol and they won't take the time to learn... that's a pitty...

 

I lost my meth and second pump at the 1/4 mile track. I logged the run and was 13.x AFR and still no knock. Why? because I tuned it that way. I am no "tuner", but was able to tune my car and figure out a method of preventing a meltdown in the event of the loss of Meth for any reason. I have proven it works when done properly.

 

well said

 

I am also planning on adding meth but not tune for it. I am just going to use the meth as an insurance for cooling but since my car will not be tuned for it, therefore there should not be any problem if I run out.

 

No one "really needs" meth. Back 1962's the first turbo car: the 1962 Oldsmobile Jetfire Turbo Rocket came out and used a tank of what was called "rocket fuel", which was actually a mixture of methanol and water to supress detonation. It may have needed it back then, but thankfully we have come a LONG ways since then and no factory car uses it today (or for the past 30 years for that matter), despite several running boost levels ranging from 14 to 20PSI+. I've been making 600WHP on straight up pump for 4500 miles, as have many others at even higher power levels, with zero issues. You may WANT meth, you might LIKE meth, and you will probably make more power on meth, but you don't need meth, MUCH LESS at the very modest boost levels you are planning to run... Anyone who says otherwise is either trying to sell you something, or simply doesn't know what they are talking about, and if that sounds rude, please call up ANY FI vendor and ask them why, if you supposedly need meth, their kit doesn't include it?
Many disagree, and that is perfectly fine, but in my opinion, Meth is just one more thing to spend money on and worry about if/when it breaks later. There is a reason your complete supercharger kit doesn't include it, and my tuner, like yours, is not fond of it either.
I could end up running it some day, if my quest for power lands me there, but I wouldn't be happy about it if I did... Its inconvenient enough having to stop for gas every 300-400 miles when I'm in the middle of nowhere. Having to find methanol, or even windshield washer fluid in the middle of nowhere late at night on a cross country trip sounds like something I would like to avoid at all costs.

 

I'm sure it has been covered, but what kind of gains can you expect from running meth? This would really help me out at the track..... My blower stays hot to the touch in between runs.

 

I understand Sam, my 1st setup in '05 was at 620rwhp 518rwtq, no methanol, but after the new revisions to the alky control kit, it became too easy to use, and upkeep... I know Sam will come over to the darkside sooner or later, he has the itch, I can see it...

 

I have to admit, this was my thinking when I posted. But I am glad to have ALL opinions on which to base a decision.

My tuner didn't say they COULDN'T do meth, they said they don't LIKE using meth. I don't take that as them not knowing about it. They have built some SICK cars, and have been around for a long time.

 

Totally agree.
Over 40,000 miles on my setup, no issues whatsoever.
Over 600rwtq on 93 octane.
I understand why it is suggested, but it is not truly needed.
Just need to tune safely.

 

Why don't you ask your tuner if it is a good idea to add the meth kit if he does not tune it for additional HP but just for safety?

 

You will lose a little horsepower if you tune without meth and then add it, but you will add some safety cushion. I see no need to do it that way since you can add in the timing reduction with the loss of it.

 

You need to know that methanol doesn't help roots blowers like it does turbo and centrifugal charged cars. The best way to add meth is to add it after the charger which would force you to design a spray bar system that runs through the intake. Although I don't know it for a fact, I have also read about Maggies failing where they believe the meth caused internal bearing failures. Spraying after the charger would also alleviate the possibility of having this possible issue. I don't remember the #'s, but when tuned for pump and adding meth, I lost something like 15rwhp.

 

My tuner(LPE) also refused to install a Meth kit with my Twin Turbo application. I cannot fault them since they design and tune their systems as turnkey with the average enthusiast in mind and cannot afford the bad publicity associated with someone blowing their engine because they let their Meth bottle run dry. Instead they advocate 100+ octane fuel as assurance against detonation and knock under boost. In my case at the 15 PSI setting I needed 109 octane.
This was impractical not to mention expensive. I wanted a car that could run on 93 octane yet would produce the power it was designed for. So I did my homework spent many long hours researching the kits, not to mention talking to the representatives of companies and understanding how Meth works. I settled on the Alky Systems kit and with Julio's unwavering support installed it myself(Thanks again Julio). Since I installed it primarily for safety, my re-tuning consisted of adding a few degrees of advance in the High Octane tables during boost, and pulling out a bit of fuel in the upper ranges of the PE table(didn't need to do this as car ran fine).
Car runs great! No knock even in Hi boost on 93 octane. Sure I could tune for more power as timing is still conservative and fuel is fat(10.8AFR) but with 820RWHP I consider my project a success. As a bonus in 100 degree NC summer weather my Input Air Temp never goes above 110*. Meth does work!

 

Powerlabs makes the following bold assertion:
You're right... Neither myself nor the others in this thread have a clue what we're talking about! (and we're all secretly major shareholders in the meth injection cartel! So we stand to gain something if you buy meth!)

With a comp ratio as high as stock, you need the meth. It's cheap any easy. Just do it.

 

So, if I need meth, how come no supercharger kit comes with it? And how come my car hasn't blown up without it yet?
I respect your opinion, but "you need" statements are a good way of getting proven wrong. People running methanol injection with basic, low boost / no cam supercharger kits are the exception, not the rule, and no one has lost an engine yet for tuning safely without meth, but some have lost engines for tuning for meth and having it run out or fail...

 

I could... If I really want more power and I can't get it any other way, I would consider it. But I wouldn't be happy about it, just like I wasn't happy about having to pour a gallon of race gas into my fuel tank every time I wanted to turn the boost up on my 22PSI turbo subaru. For me a street car should run pump gas; if having to add something to your gas tank, or refill a secondary tank, or have to check on a system every gas stop was a desireable trait, it would be a factory option

 

It's cheap, easy, and very reliable. It's not a big deal if you run out, or have a failure either if the engine is properly tuned for it. I use a mixture of water and meth and keep a gallon in my trunk. You can use washer fluid (lots of people do on a regular basis) in a pinch which is available at just about any gas station in the country (not a real big worry there). The fact is it provides a big benefit with little to no downside. It also helps keep to prevent carbon buildup, ask Doug at ECS what the engines he has ripped into that use meth look like compared to a stocker. Lower temps, cooler pistons, more octane, more power (if you want), its a great thing to have.

Merry Christmas.

 

You dont have to check it at every stop, if you use the windshield tank you get the same warning you do now when you get low, no big deal. I top it off once in a while when its convenient.