Dieseling condition with e-force?
10-01-2010, 01:56 PM
#41
Congrats...I thought that 23 degrees sounded really high for a base idle spark value.
Can I make a suggestion?...Recommend you take a look at the screenshot below and compare it to your high octane spark table settings. The screenshot shows the E-Force canned tune values for an LS3 but they should be close enough for your LS2. They are very conservative but your table should look close to the same. If your tuner was "spark happy" with the idle spark I'd be concerned about the high octane spark numbers. If they are very far out from what you see below you could destroy your engine. Special emphasis on the area I highlited in Blue.
Can I make a suggestion?...Recommend you take a look at the screenshot below and compare it to your high octane spark table settings. The screenshot shows the E-Force canned tune values for an LS3 but they should be close enough for your LS2. They are very conservative but your table should look close to the same. If your tuner was "spark happy" with the idle spark I'd be concerned about the high octane spark numbers. If they are very far out from what you see below you could destroy your engine. Special emphasis on the area I highlited in Blue.
10-01-2010, 02:09 PM
#42
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Here's my corresponding blue area.
10-01-2010, 02:13 PM
#43
You are showing ounces per cylinder and I'm showing grams per cylinder. Can you change your type of units in EFIlive to g/cyl and then show me the area from 2000rpm on up and greater than 0.50 g/cyl?
10-01-2010, 02:28 PM
#44
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Hit refresh, I over wrote the original file.
Elmer
10-01-2010, 02:33 PM
#45
10-01-2010, 02:37 PM
#46
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10-01-2010, 02:41 PM
#47
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It just disappeared! WTF is going on with this site?
10-01-2010, 02:42 PM
#48
Got it now. I'm no expert on this but you have quite a bit more timing in than the can'd E-Force table. Granted, the Edelbrock table is very conservative. Do you log knock retard when you datalog? If not, you should and if you already do, how much retard are you seeing with this table set like it is?
10-01-2010, 02:47 PM
#49
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I saw 1 hit of 4.7. Most of the time I'm at 0 KR.
10-01-2010, 02:58 PM
#50
If it were me...I'd go conservative and marry what is in that table I showed you. You'll see virtually zero KR with those numbers. From there, if you want to slowly start adding a few degrees, log, examine for KR and continue the cycle until you see the first hints of KR and then back off a degree or two. It's a painfully slow process if tuning on the street and will take many attempts to find just how much advance your setup can stand. Good tuners can knock it out (no punn intended) quickly on a dyno though. I personally have zero confidence that your tooner gave due diligence to the task when he set you up. My two cents worth.
P.S. You owe me a beer for the take the timing out of the baseline to solve your dieseling suggestion!
P.S. You owe me a beer for the take the timing out of the baseline to solve your dieseling suggestion!
03-14-2011, 08:16 PM
#51
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Well, I spoke too soon. The dieseling came back after I got it good and hot.
So, to continue...
Today the tuner pulled off the SC and replaced the intake manifold gaskets and the O-rings on the injectors.
It still dieseled.
I have a request in to Edelbrock for a new set of injectors and if that doesn't stop the dieseling, I've requested, as a next step, to have the SC unit replaced.
My request was sent up the line to the Technical Support Manager. I await his reply.
Elmer
So, to continue...
Today the tuner pulled off the SC and replaced the intake manifold gaskets and the O-rings on the injectors.
It still dieseled.
I have a request in to Edelbrock for a new set of injectors and if that doesn't stop the dieseling, I've requested, as a next step, to have the SC unit replaced.
My request was sent up the line to the Technical Support Manager. I await his reply.
Elmer
03-14-2011, 08:49 PM
#52
I thought you had replaced injectors a long time ago. I misunderstood your comment about having eight new injectors. When you turn the car off it should not immediately bleed off fuel pressure. It should hold 40psi or so at the rails for a while. Have you watched fuel pressure after shut down?
03-14-2011, 10:06 PM
#53
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I thought you had replaced injectors a long time ago. I misunderstood your comment about having eight new injectors. When you turn the car off it should not immediately bleed off fuel pressure. It should hold 40psi or so at the rails for a while. Have you watched fuel pressure after shut down?
Elmer
03-14-2011, 10:21 PM
#54
shutting the car off disables ignition, so even IF an injector was stuck open(it probably isn't; the car would run like crap and backfire like crazy if it was), AND a single cylinder receiving fuel was enough to keep the entire engine running (it isn't), you still wouldn't have ignition...
Because the very nature of dieseling involves spark plugs in some way?
Dieseling or engine run-on is a condition which can occur in spark plug, gasoline powered internal combustion engines whereby the engine keeps running for a short period after being turned off, due to fuel igniting without a spark.
03-14-2011, 10:28 PM
#55
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The only time I ever had this exact same problem was with a '07 Z06 that I installed big cam, headers, intake and tried to do a MAF only tune. It would diesel on shutoff when warm. The only way I could get it solved was to dial in the VE tables using Bluecat's software.
http://www.hptuners.com/forum/showth...hlight=bluecat
http://www.hptuners.com/forum/showth...hlight=bluecat
03-15-2011, 03:50 AM
#56
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Spark plugs have been switched. The first set was TR6 and I'm now running ZR1 plugs @ .040 AC 41-104. I think we can rule them out.
I've removed the BAP and installed the Aeroforce 340 Stealth so the BAP is out.
3 different tuners have supplied me with 50 or more different tunes, so I think we can safely rule out the tune.
The ECM is not acting like it is an issue because it is electronic and the ignition switch is off so it is out of the equation.
My A/F readings at idle and driving are at 14.7 so I'm not rich with excess fuel in the cylinders. Driving the car in 6th my LTFTs at 57mph on cruise are running an average of +3.9 LTFT1 and +5.5 LTFT2. So I running a tad lean and adding fuel.
I'm really down to a hardware issue that is giving me some gas to burn. I don't see how the SC unit can be giving me gas to diesel in the engine.
So we're down to leaky injector(s) that are not locking down fully and the engine is getting gas from the pressure in the fuel lines.
I'm still waiting for Edelbrock to respond.
As you can see, it's 3:40AM and I'm not sleeping and it's entirely due to this friggen car problem. After watching those 2 guys straining to move the SC off and on the engine I guess I've let this issue just flat **** me off.
Elmer
I've removed the BAP and installed the Aeroforce 340 Stealth so the BAP is out.
3 different tuners have supplied me with 50 or more different tunes, so I think we can safely rule out the tune.
The ECM is not acting like it is an issue because it is electronic and the ignition switch is off so it is out of the equation.
My A/F readings at idle and driving are at 14.7 so I'm not rich with excess fuel in the cylinders. Driving the car in 6th my LTFTs at 57mph on cruise are running an average of +3.9 LTFT1 and +5.5 LTFT2. So I running a tad lean and adding fuel.
I'm really down to a hardware issue that is giving me some gas to burn. I don't see how the SC unit can be giving me gas to diesel in the engine.
So we're down to leaky injector(s) that are not locking down fully and the engine is getting gas from the pressure in the fuel lines.
I'm still waiting for Edelbrock to respond.
As you can see, it's 3:40AM and I'm not sleeping and it's entirely due to this friggen car problem. After watching those 2 guys straining to move the SC off and on the engine I guess I've let this issue just flat **** me off.
Elmer
03-15-2011, 09:48 AM
#57
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Spark plugs have been switched. The first set was TR6 and I'm now running ZR1 plugs @ .040 AC 41-104. I think we can rule them out.
I've removed the BAP and installed the Aeroforce 340 Stealth so the BAP is out.
3 different tuners have supplied me with 50 or more different tunes, so I think we can safely rule out the tune.
The ECM is not acting like it is an issue because it is electronic and the ignition switch is off so it is out of the equation.
My A/F readings at idle and driving are at 14.7 so I'm not rich with excess fuel in the cylinders. Driving the car in 6th my LTFTs at 57mph on cruise are running an average of +3.9 LTFT1 and +5.5 LTFT2. So I running a tad lean and adding fuel.
I'm really down to a hardware issue that is giving me some gas to burn. I don't see how the SC unit can be giving me gas to diesel in the engine.
So we're down to leaky injector(s) that are not locking down fully and the engine is getting gas from the pressure in the fuel lines.
I'm still waiting for Edelbrock to respond.
As you can see, it's 3:40AM and I'm not sleeping and it's entirely due to this friggen car problem. After watching those 2 guys straining to move the SC off and on the engine I guess I've let this issue just flat **** me off.
Elmer
I've removed the BAP and installed the Aeroforce 340 Stealth so the BAP is out.
3 different tuners have supplied me with 50 or more different tunes, so I think we can safely rule out the tune.
The ECM is not acting like it is an issue because it is electronic and the ignition switch is off so it is out of the equation.
My A/F readings at idle and driving are at 14.7 so I'm not rich with excess fuel in the cylinders. Driving the car in 6th my LTFTs at 57mph on cruise are running an average of +3.9 LTFT1 and +5.5 LTFT2. So I running a tad lean and adding fuel.
I'm really down to a hardware issue that is giving me some gas to burn. I don't see how the SC unit can be giving me gas to diesel in the engine.
So we're down to leaky injector(s) that are not locking down fully and the engine is getting gas from the pressure in the fuel lines.
I'm still waiting for Edelbrock to respond.
As you can see, it's 3:40AM and I'm not sleeping and it's entirely due to this friggen car problem. After watching those 2 guys straining to move the SC off and on the engine I guess I've let this issue just flat **** me off.
Elmer
03-15-2011, 10:05 AM
#58
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I'd bet money on leaky injectors. Without fuel it will not diesel. If you've tried that many tunes then I can't imagine them all having some sort of odd issue that only makes your car diesel.
03-16-2011, 12:31 PM
#59
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Well, I spoke too soon. The dieseling came back after I got it good and hot.
So, to continue...
Today the tuner pulled off the SC and replaced the intake manifold gaskets and the O-rings on the injectors.
It still dieseled.
I have a request in to Edelbrock for a new set of injectors and if that doesn't stop the dieseling, I've requested, as a next step, to have the SC unit replaced.
My request was sent up the line to the Technical Support Manager. I await his reply.
Elmer
So, to continue...
Today the tuner pulled off the SC and replaced the intake manifold gaskets and the O-rings on the injectors.
It still dieseled.
I have a request in to Edelbrock for a new set of injectors and if that doesn't stop the dieseling, I've requested, as a next step, to have the SC unit replaced.
My request was sent up the line to the Technical Support Manager. I await his reply.
Elmer
I'm STILL awaiting a response or recognition that the "Technical Support Manager" has read or has taken an interest in my dieseling problem. Maybe he's not in the office this week?
I don't want to appear impulsive but I've had this damn issue since 9-28-2010.
Adding a note that I have had a very good interaction with Chris from Edelbrock on this issue as we chased the fact that my ECM became a paper weight on the initial tune and it took a week to get the car to run. He has supplied me with numerous attempts to tune out this issue but the tune doesn't seem to be the answer.
Elmer
Last edited by eboggs_jkvl; 03-16-2011 at 12:38 PM.
