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Old Oct 28, 2005 | 04:39 PM
  #41  
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Originally Posted by jeffgdula
That article says its quicker in Tour than Sport mode, not quicker than the other suspensions which is what you or someone else claimed in another thread. Not too mention it was about C5's and the C6 Z51 is much more comprehensive than the its C5 ancestor.

And as far as your comment that "the Z51 is an over-with technology with a very narrow purpose when compared with the astounding F55" its funny that an "over-with technology is still in 99.9% of all cars made today.

And of course it has a narrow purpose, so does the Corvette: to be a sports car. This would be in contrast to MSRC cars. As the article points out, the only other cars with MSRC are both Cadillacs and I think anybody who buys a Vette with MSRC should have just bought a Cadillac anyways since that is clearly the ride they were looking for.

Again, I was refering specifically to the Z51 suspension, not the whole package, the rest of which I think is excellent.

I mentioned the Tour vs Sport mode on the F55 -- not to put down the Z51 -- but to point out that maybe the person who was considering modifying his F55 might want to factor that into his calculations before adding the Z51 sway bars. In other words, would it make it worse instead of better? If it is faster in tour than sport...?

And yes, I do believe that valved shocks are an "over-with" technology -- not just on the Z51 cars, but in general. When a technology peaks, it lingers because -- of course -- it's gotten as good as it can get. That's why I also said if I could have gotten everything else on the Z51 package WITH the F55 suspension, I would have in a second (even at double the price). In my opinion that would make the absolute best setup for the C6. That's my opinion.

You know I have bent over backwards complementing the Z51, always telling people it is the deal of the century and that if they want Z51, they will hate themselves if they don't get it. But that's not what this thread is about, it's for people with F55 interested in modifying it. OK?
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Old Oct 28, 2005 | 06:32 PM
  #42  
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Default It WILL be done

My original post was to get some feedback on putting Z51 sway bars on the F55 from someone who's done it. Thanks for the input, enough positive I'm gonna do it: it only costs a few hundred bucks to try and is easily reversed.

I HAVE a C6 Z51 now. I like the firm ride, just don't like the occasional hammer-to-the-chassis when there's a fast change in the road surface. That is almost completely a function of how stiff the shocks are. I'm banking on F55 computer-controlled shocks won't pass as much of that shock to the chassis. I'm also anticipating that F55 won't be as firm as I'd like. I'll put a few bucks and a little effort onto Z51 bars trying to bring handling back toward the Z51 side. Jeff, am I "in" because of Z51 bars, or "out" because the shocks are computer controlled?

Who cares? It's the RESULT that matters and I'll give you feedback in a few months, if there's not too much snow. And yea, I drive my Vette in the snow.

P.S. As long as I'm laying cards on the table: I think Z51 is a bargain and F55 is priced high. But I don't need coolers, I don't want to pay for Supercar tires every 15,000 miles, the short gearing doesn't feel right, and although "cool", the crossdrilled rotors just make me shivver: I made a living for a few decades finding stress corrosion cracks in nuclear reactors and aircraft strcutures.
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Old Oct 28, 2005 | 06:37 PM
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Originally Posted by billsee
My original post was to get some feedback on putting Z51 sway bars on the F55 from someone who's done it. Thanks for the input, enough positive I'm gonna do it: it only costs a few hundred bucks to try and is easily reversed.

I HAVE a C6 Z51 now. I like the firm ride, just don't like the occasional hammer-to-the-chassis when there's a fast change in the road surface. That is almost completely a function of how stiff the shocks are. I'm banking on F55 computer-controlled shocks won't pass as much of that shock to the chassis. I'm also anticipating that F55 won't be as firm as I'd like. I'll put a few bucks and a little effort onto Z51 bars trying to bring handling back toward the Z51 side. Jeff, am I "in" because of Z51 bars, or "out" because the shocks are computer controlled?

Who cares? It's the RESULT that matters and I'll give you feedback in a few months, if there's not too much snow. And yea, I drive my Vette in the snow.

P.S. As long as I'm laying cards on the table: I think Z51 is a bargain and F55 is priced high. But I don't need coolers, I don't want to pay for Supercar tires every 15,000 miles, the short gearing doesn't feel right, and although "cool", the crossdrilled rotors just make me shivver: I made a living for a few decades finding stress corrosion cracks in nuclear reactors and aircraft strcutures.
If you have no need for it ..it is just extra weight and alot of that stuff is just cosmetics and will also just take up more space and make accessability more difficult in the future.
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Old Oct 28, 2005 | 06:47 PM
  #44  
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Originally Posted by jschindler
Jeff, have you ever ridden in a F55 car? Come to Houston, I have one. Bring a Z51 car, and bring cash. We'll go to an autocross and see how much difference it makes

I've had both Z51 and F55 C6's. You people who think the Z51 is the end all, and that all Corvettes should have it sure are narrow minded. I don't criticize anyone for their choices. But I see an awful lot of Z51 fans acting like if you don't by Z51 you are some kind of second class citizen. The really annoying part of it is that most of the Z51 zealots have never spent any time driving the other variations.

If you have Z51, and it's the only way you would by a Corvette, that's fine. But please quit talking down to those who don't have it as if they are idiots.

Most people don't take their cars to the limit so all of that extra stuff is just that. One can always enjoy a comfortable ride but to get what you paid for in Z-51 you have to drive your car really rough and along with that you should expect alot more wear and tear.
I did drive a Z-51 to see if it was harsh in the ride and at the time it wasn't but I don't have to live with it perhaps a year or two down the line the ride will get worse as with most cars with age. The Z-51 is a very tight handling car if you take it to that level on a open road track. I did enjoy taking it around the track but for daily driving or on these bad roads we have here it can only get worse.
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Old Oct 28, 2005 | 06:50 PM
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Default I have about 6,500 miles and am on my second 4 wheel alignment

Originally Posted by jim2092
Z51 sway bars installed on my F55 have tightened the handling and the ride quality. If you do much bad road driving(uneven pavement or tar strips), you will notice a harsher ride, even in touring mode. So there is a possible down side, depending on your ride quality tolerance, but the handling is tighter and it IS flat in turns!
I don't drive the Corvette hard so that should tell you how bad the roads are here. I try to avoid the cracks and potholes but alot of this road is rough with dips even without the potholes.
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Old Oct 30, 2005 | 01:04 AM
  #46  
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Originally Posted by jeffgdula
That article says its quicker in Tour than Sport mode, not quicker than the other suspensions which is what you or someone else claimed in another thread. Not too mention it was about C5's and the C6 Z51 is much more comprehensive than the its C5 ancestor.

And as far as your comment that "the Z51 is an over-with technology with a very narrow purpose when compared with the astounding F55" its funny that an "over-with technology is still in 99.9% of all cars made today.

And of course it has a narrow purpose, so does the Corvette: to be a sports car. This would be in contrast to MSRC cars. As the article points out, the only other cars with MSRC are both Cadillacs and I think anybody who buys a Vette with MSRC should have just bought a Cadillac anyways since that is clearly the ride they were looking for.
The following is about the C6 Z51 not the C5 Z51 suspension.
The following was a post from a C6 Sticky::
A recent article:

MotorTrend – “The Suspension Dimension.” (September 2004)

“The more performance-oriented, who will likely shift for themselves and perhaps engage in autocross or track events, will want to step up to the Z51 suspension, which adds about $1500. This option used to cost $395, but the higher price represents a significant increase in content, including the larger, cross-drilled brakes, Goodyear F1 Supercar tires and revised manual transmission gearing with shorter 2.97, 2.07 and 1.43 ratios in the first three speeds.

"The Z51 is actually a touch softer than the previous package thanks to revised damping. But again, the new suspension geometry, longer wheelbase, more aggressive tires and shorter overhangs give the car quicker turn-in, better body control and higher cornering speeds.”

“While the Z51 was definitely a hoot to push hard around VIR, the Magnetic Selective Ride package ($1675) is truly the thinking man's alternative when it comes to suspension. In its normal touring mode, it offers a ride as supple as the base car's but with the added benefit of virtually flat cornering thanks to the fast-reacting shocks filled with magnetic-rheological fluid (a magic mix of iron particles and suspension oil) that, when energized by an electromagnet, stiffens the dampers to counteract body roll.

“The system has been changed to have two settings, touring and performance (as opposed to three settings last year). Unlike the previous switch, which didn't prevent the system from going into full performance mode automatically, the touring reacts much slower than the performance mode, producing a little more compliance and body lean.

"The performance mode ensures flat cornering no matter what the speed. In a way, the MSR system inspires a bit more confidence when pushing the car hard around the track — it prevents the body from becoming unsettled when the suspension loads and unloads over undulating surfaces.

"The compromise is the slightly slower turn-in. It just doesn't feel as razor sharp as the Z51 when attacking a corner's apex. The real value however in the MR system is that it nearly eliminates the surprise factor out on the open road when encountering a pothole or other unseen road irregularity.”

<End>

I would think, however, that the difference in that F1 Supercar tire alone compared to the mere run-flat tire of the F55 would be attributable to that "slightly slower turn-in." Besides, this is with maximum speed racetrack situations.

For the practical, daily driver, F55 is hard to beat.
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Old Oct 30, 2005 | 01:10 AM
  #47  
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Originally Posted by jeffgdula
That article says its quicker in Tour than Sport mode, not quicker than the other suspensions which is what you or someone else claimed in another thread. Not too mention it was about C5's and the C6 Z51 is much more comprehensive than the its C5 ancestor.

And as far as your comment that "the Z51 is an over-with technology with a very narrow purpose when compared with the astounding F55" its funny that an "over-with technology is still in 99.9% of all cars made today.

And of course it has a narrow purpose, so does the Corvette: to be a sports car. This would be in contrast to MSRC cars. As the article points out, the only other cars with MSRC are both Cadillacs and I think anybody who buys a Vette with MSRC should have just bought a Cadillac anyways since that is clearly the ride they were looking for.
This post is from a C6 Sticky post:

"I knew F55/F51 would get the a stir going. At New Hampshire GM Training, the engineer on suspensions stated "F51 is hardcore boy racer that a lot of people will buy by mistake". He also said the F55 is "worth the money because it compensates for road imperfections and still gives a high level of handling not found in the base suspension. It also will compensate for shock wear in the valving as the car ages and accumulates miles". He actually said that 75% of all Corvettes sold should be equipped with F55.
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Old Oct 30, 2005 | 01:22 AM
  #48  
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Originally Posted by jeffgdula
That article says its quicker in Tour than Sport mode, not quicker than the other suspensions which is what you or someone else claimed in another thread. Not too mention it was about C5's and the C6 Z51 is much more comprehensive than the its C5 ancestor.

And as far as your comment that "the Z51 is an over-with technology with a very narrow purpose when compared with the astounding F55" its funny that an "over-with technology is still in 99.9% of all cars made today.

And of course it has a narrow purpose, so does the Corvette: to be a sports car. This would be in contrast to MSRC cars. As the article points out, the only other cars with MSRC are both Cadillacs and I think anybody who buys a Vette with MSRC should have just bought a Cadillac anyways since that is clearly the ride they were looking for.
Good quote from previous post:
"Z51 has the stereotypical Corvette "go-fast" emotional buyers in a feeding frenzy right now. GM knows exactly what buttons to push to get these types running up full of excitement and check in hand.

F55 was never targeted to be a better seller than the other packages. In fact, its beauty is that it appeals to the more refined, sofisticated and more technologically demanding owner that is apart from the median of typical Corvette buyers. F55, especially with the new A6 transmission coming, is ringing the dinner bell for even the most discerning Euro roadster enthusiast.

Z51's dedicated sport-tuned (racetrack ready) package caters to the impulsive buyer, not one insistent on maximum, modern diversification like F55. The former has many examples. The latter has almost none."

As for your comment about "over-with technology is still in 99.9% of all cars made today." When disc brakes were first introduced, the vast majority of cars still had drum brakes but over time disc brakes won out due to their superiority. The same is true for all new advanced technologies.
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Old Oct 30, 2005 | 01:10 AM
  #49  
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Originally Posted by jeffgdula
That article says its quicker in Tour than Sport mode, not quicker than the other suspensions which is what you or someone else claimed in another thread. Not too mention it was about C5's and the C6 Z51 is much more comprehensive than the its C5 ancestor.

And as far as your comment that "the Z51 is an over-with technology with a very narrow purpose when compared with the astounding F55" its funny that an "over-with technology is still in 99.9% of all cars made today.

And of course it has a narrow purpose, so does the Corvette: to be a sports car. This would be in contrast to MSRC cars. As the article points out, the only other cars with MSRC are both Cadillacs and I think anybody who buys a Vette with MSRC should have just bought a Cadillac anyways since that is clearly the ride they were looking for.
Your comment: "And of course it has a narrow purpose, so does the Corvette: to be a sports car. This would be in contrast to MSRC cars." ,is misguided. A Corvette equipped with the MSRC is a sports car. A Corvette equipped with the base suspension is also a sports car.
The comparison to the Cadillac is also misguided. MSRC was added to the Cadillacs to make them more of a sports/luxury car in order to compete with the foreign cars in this category. The addition of the MSRC does not put them in the category of true sports car like the Corvette. The Corvette is much lighter, more powerful, has stiffer springs, pulls more g forces, is not as luxuriously appointed, has a lower coefficient of drag, a higher top speed, greater acceleration, better breaking. It's also a two seater and it's better looking. It appeals to a different set of buyers.
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Old Oct 30, 2005 | 11:51 AM
  #50  
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Originally Posted by Pozzo
Your comment: "And of course it has a narrow purpose, so does the Corvette: to be a sports car. This would be in contrast to MSRC cars." ,is misguided. A Corvette equipped with the MSRC is a sports car. A Corvette equipped with the base suspension is also a sports car.
The comparison to the Cadillac is also misguided. MSRC was added to the Cadillacs to make them more of a sports/luxury car in order to compete with the foreign cars in this category. The addition of the MSRC does not put them in the category of true sports car like the Corvette. The Corvette is much lighter, more powerful, has stiffer springs, pulls more g forces, is not as luxuriously appointed, has a lower coefficient of drag, a higher top speed, greater acceleration, better breaking. It's also a two seater and it's better looking. It appeals to a different set of buyers.


I am a person who has always loved sports cars. When I was 20, it didn't matter how stiff or firm the ride was, it still "rode like a Cadillac" to me because I was young enough not to know the difference. Now, at 40, with considerable back issues due to the years of abuse in athletics, I can no longer handle the same suspension setup that I could 20 years ago. I take an anti-inflammatory every day because I have to. Thankfully, the Corvette offers an option that allows for me to have a "sports car" and the comfort that I need. Real performance driving is not overly important for me now but I still take great pleasure in driving sports cars. Thank you Chevrolet for developing a car that is reasonably priced and seems to meet the needs of all interested whatever the age.
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Old Oct 30, 2005 | 06:50 PM
  #51  
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Originally Posted by jschindler
Jeff, have you ever ridden in a F55 car? Come to Houston, I have one. Bring a Z51 car, and bring cash. We'll go to an autocross and see how much difference it makes

I've had both Z51 and F55 C6's. You people who think the Z51 is the end all, and that all Corvettes should have it sure are narrow minded. I don't criticize anyone for their choices. But I see an awful lot of Z51 fans acting like if you don't by Z51 you are some kind of second class citizen. The really annoying part of it is that most of the Z51 zealots have never spent any time driving the other variations.

If you have Z51, and it's the only way you would by a Corvette, that's fine. But please quit talking down to those who don't have it as if they are idiots.
Very well said!
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Old Oct 30, 2005 | 08:37 PM
  #52  
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Can the MSRC shocks be added to a Z-51 car???
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Old Oct 30, 2005 | 08:55 PM
  #53  
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--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Quote:
Originally Posted by jschindler
Jeff, have you ever ridden in a F55 car? Come to Houston, I have one. Bring a Z51 car, and bring cash. We'll go to an autocross and see how much difference it makes

I've had both Z51 and F55 C6's. You people who think the Z51 is the end all, and that all Corvettes should have it sure are narrow minded. I don't criticize anyone for their choices. But I see an awful lot of Z51 fans acting like if you don't by Z51 you are some kind of second class citizen. The really annoying part of it is that most of the Z51 zealots have never spent any time driving the other variations.

If you have Z51, and it's the only way you would by a Corvette, that's fine. But please quit talking down to those who don't have it as if they are idiots.



Very well said!
Originally Posted by Wass
Very well said!
I agree!
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Old Oct 30, 2005 | 08:58 PM
  #54  
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Originally Posted by sallen619
Can the MSRC shocks be added to a Z-51 car???
The MSRC shocks can be added to a Z51 but all of the associated electronics would also have to be added.
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Old Oct 30, 2005 | 09:25 PM
  #55  
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Default Exact same thing happened to me

Originally Posted by rgcarmack14
I am a person who has always loved sports cars. When I was 20, it didn't matter how stiff or firm the ride was, it still "rode like a Cadillac" to me because I was young enough not to know the difference. Now, at 40, with considerable back issues due to the years of abuse in athletics, I can no longer handle the same suspension setup that I could 20 years ago. I take an anti-inflammatory every day because I have to. Thankfully, the Corvette offers an option that allows for me to have a "sports car" and the comfort that I need. Real performance driving is not overly important for me now but I still take great pleasure in driving sports cars. Thank you Chevrolet for developing a car that is reasonably priced and seems to meet the needs of all interested whatever the age.

As our body and mind ages with time same so does it for the Corvette when new it is nice n smooth when it gets older loser suspension you will notice a difference.
I used to drive an old Corvette big block which was like being in a sauna but it did not bother me when I was younger.
Now I prefer a closed air conditioned roof.
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Old Oct 30, 2005 | 09:26 PM
  #56  
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Originally Posted by Pozzo
This post is from a C6 Sticky post:

"I knew F55/F51 would get the a stir going. At New Hampshire GM Training, the engineer on suspensions stated "F51 is hardcore boy racer that a lot of people will buy by mistake". He also said the F55 is "worth the money because it compensates for road imperfections and still gives a high level of handling not found in the base suspension. It also will compensate for shock wear in the valving as the car ages and accumulates miles". He actually said that 75% of all Corvettes sold should be equipped with F55.
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Old Nov 5, 2005 | 12:51 PM
  #57  
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Originally Posted by Daylon
Put Z51 bars on my F55, best money I ever spent! Much better handling, no down side that I know of....
What does this cost?
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Old Nov 5, 2005 | 10:11 PM
  #58  
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Originally Posted by gator87
What does this cost?
Think I paid around $150 and installed them myself. Got mine from Ken Fichtner.
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Old Nov 8, 2005 | 12:11 AM
  #59  
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Default ZO6 or Z51 bars?

It seems like only the rear bar is different between the ZO6 and Z51 kits from Fred Beans. Anyone have experience with the ZO6 bars on a Mag Ride C6 yet?
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Old Nov 8, 2005 | 01:09 PM
  #60  
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z51= coupe,stick.... for racers


f55= verts and a/t coupes

End
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