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87 octane in vette?

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Old Oct 22, 2005 | 12:38 AM
  #21  
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Originally Posted by Pingky71
In the owner's manual it clearly states that 87 is Ok but 91-93 is recomended. I owned a couple of Benzes and it clearly says "premium unleaded only". At one point I put 87 and the car pinged like crazy. So never again. About EPA stating that all cars should be able to run 87... hmm..... I dont think so. Those guys need an update.
It might take some time, or even another fillup to reset the slightly retarded timing for 87 octane. I would just go easy and don't lug it till then. It should settle down, but I don't personally know from experience.
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Old Oct 22, 2005 | 01:48 AM
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Originally Posted by glass slipper
EPA requires all cars sold in the USA be capable of running 87 octane. There will be people who will state emphatically you can't do it, EPA says otherwise. As stated above, a slight HP loss at peak, but you won't see a significant drop in MPG, especially on the highway. My daughter runs 87 octane in her C5 and gets ~25 MPG in combined city/highway driving. Before an autocross, she runs the tank down low and fills up with 93 octane for those last few HP. Beware of any additives for anything, if GM thought additives were necessary to enhancing the life of the car, they would have specified them. However, if it makes you "feel" better, spend away...the best that can happen is you waste money, the worst is wasting money and messing up your car.
You are soooo right on the "snake oil additives". Sheesh, just the thought of putting something like that in the tank ..................
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Old Oct 22, 2005 | 11:04 AM
  #23  
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Originally Posted by Nicodemus
Thats interesting. My WRX STI said in the manual that 93 octane is highly recomended and if 93 is not availble you can go to 91 octane and nothing less. The car did ping every once and a while on 93 so I am sure 87 would have been a bad thing. Keep in mind this thing was making 120 hp per liter. Where would I find this info on the EPA requiring a car to run on 87 octane?
A letter to car manufacturers from the EPA:

http://www.epa.gov/otaq/cert/dearmfr/vpcd9701.pdf

An excerpt from the letter...
(NOTE: FTP is Federal Test Procedure, SFTP is Supplemental Federal Test Procedure, HWFET is Highway Fuel Economy Test, and finally 91 RON and 96 RON is equivalent to 87 PON and 93 PON or what we refer to as regular and premium.)

(Quote) Under the provisions of section 27 of 40 CFR Part 86, EPA began to require manufacturers to show, prior to certification, that knock sensor equipped vehicles could operate on 91 RON gasoline without effecting emissions or fuel economy. To do this, manufacturers have to demonstrate that the knock sensor output does not alter spark timing during FTP operation, or that the fuel economy difference between 96 RON testing and 91 RON testing is within 3 percent. Either option requires the manufacturer to run special testing.
...
EPA has rarely found that knock sensors come into play when tested with 91 RON fuel. There is no likely motivation for a manufacturer to design a calibration that results in spark retard while operating on recommended regular octane gasoline. Therefore, in lieu of test data, EPA will require that manufacturers submit a statement attesting to one or more of the following:
1. The knock sensor does not activate in any way during the FTP (or the SFTP as applicable) and the HWFET, and the calibration is designed to operate on 91 RON gasoline without the need for spark adjustment.
2. The city and highway fuel economy test result differences between comparing 91 RON operation and 96 RON operation is within 3%, and there are no emissions increases (beyond normal test variability) using 91 RON fuel when tested on the FTP (or SFTP as applicable). (Unquote)

...Hope this is what you were looking for.

...Note that FTP and HWFET are done at light to moderate throttle with A/C off and moderate ambient temperature, not 90+ degrees (remember knock is less likely at lower throttle opening/load and temperatures). Given those conditions, 87 octane would work with very little spark retard allowing GM to stay within the 3% window.

...Pinging (light detonation) will not harm your engine, your knock sensor obviously allows more than others or you have very good hearing. Either way, I'm sure as the octane goes down, more timing would be pulled out...or maybe even boost gets dropped (do you have a boost controller managed by the computer??), I don't know what options your computer has. In addition, you only have 8.2:1 compression so I would think timing retard would easily control knock at full throttle.

Also, an interesting read is http://www.caranddriver.com/article....&page_number=1
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Old Oct 22, 2005 | 12:02 PM
  #24  
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Originally Posted by DLTruex
87 burns hotter than 91/91, but it's also more prone to detonation issues in high compression engines. 87 should get better HP numbers, and 91/92 should get better mileage.
Suggest you do more research before piping in.
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Old Oct 24, 2005 | 03:33 PM
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the '05 Owners Manual states that 87 Octane is acceptable but 91-93 is recommended. The knock sensors & electronic engine controls will adjust timing to avoid any pre-detonation worries & there will be some small amount of performance reduction, but not enough to notice for street use. If you're getting fuel for free...go for it. When you're out for some "sporty" driving, fill up with premium.
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Old Oct 24, 2005 | 03:50 PM
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Originally Posted by Dave S
the '05 Owners Manual states that 87 Octane is acceptable but 91-93 is recommended. The knock sensors & electronic engine controls will adjust timing to avoid any pre-detonation worries & there will be some small amount of performance reduction, but not enough to notice for street use. If you're getting fuel for free...go for it. When you're out for some "sporty" driving, fill up with premium.
Does anyone know when the computer will readjust the timing if you do move up in octane?
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Old Oct 25, 2005 | 02:06 AM
  #27  
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Originally Posted by Wass
Around here, 93 octane is 55 cents per gallon more than 87.
You PA guys are getting screwed big time, then! I travel around the country a lot for work, and most places, it's 20-25 cents more.
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Old Oct 25, 2005 | 02:15 AM
  #28  
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Hmm wonder whats worse.. getting screwed .55 cents or not having it period... good luck finding 93 in CA. - Most you will find is 91 and IT is usually 20-50 cents more (yea depends what neck of the woods you are in) - Drive around areas where most cars being driven are 91 octane or higher and youll find gas stations gouging the premium
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