Predictions on modding the new LS3?
Safety Car
Joined: May 2005
Posts: 3,990
Likes: 1
From: Corpus Christi Texas
Does the LS2 respond better than the LS6? From what I've seen when I peruse the C5Z forum, the LS6 and LS2 look about equal when we add the basics, such as long-tubes, intake, tune. Then again, they often have a little more juice stock so maybe the LS2 does respond a little better.
Race Director
Joined: Jan 2000
Posts: 12,375
Likes: 406
From: Florida
Whatever the change is, it is for 08 onward and does not include 07. I don't think GM did this to screw the aftermarket. This is instead a fuel-saving change permitting the car to operate more efficiently when not in closed loop: instead of fixed fuel maps, the engine adjusts for conditions, allowing each engine to run at maximum efficiency in all regimes. But it also means tuners cannot make permanent changes to the WOT maps.
We just need to wait and see. This may be a blessing in that the computer adjusts for mods (no more tune needed for say headers CAI rockers baby cam) or it may be a nightmare. And other solutions will come up.
I remember back when I had my 3rd Gen RX-7, one tuner came up with a piggy-back computer that basically hijacked the signal from the EEC-IV ECU, modified the values, and sent it back to the computer. You controlled boost electronically as well as the transition from single to twin turbo operation, fuel maps, ignition advance, etc. all from inside the car - back in 1993. It was trick, that's for sure!
We just need to wait and see. This may be a blessing in that the computer adjusts for mods (no more tune needed for say headers CAI rockers baby cam) or it may be a nightmare. And other solutions will come up.
I remember back when I had my 3rd Gen RX-7, one tuner came up with a piggy-back computer that basically hijacked the signal from the EEC-IV ECU, modified the values, and sent it back to the computer. You controlled boost electronically as well as the transition from single to twin turbo operation, fuel maps, ignition advance, etc. all from inside the car - back in 1993. It was trick, that's for sure!
Le Mans Master
Joined: Jul 2005
Posts: 5,328
Likes: 405
The poor MPG of the old carbed cars was more a function of the cam and engine/car design, not the carb. Give me an old Quadrajet and some dyno time and I can get you up to 500 HP (cam/heads of course as well as headers) and 20+ MPG on an LS2. With two even older 4-Jets, 600 HP and 20+ MPG on an LS7 are a piece of cake...but I'll need more dyno time (4-Jets have 4 floats and ~10 adjustments per float
), a 2X4 tunnel ram manifold, and exhaust gas temperature monitors for each cylinder. The only thing that beats a venturi for fuel atomization is the new direct injection systems, and the Q'jet has triple venturis on the primaries. Just like computers, it all depends on who's doing the tuning and how well they know the carb. 
), a 2X4 tunnel ram manifold, and exhaust gas temperature monitors for each cylinder. The only thing that beats a venturi for fuel atomization is the new direct injection systems, and the Q'jet has triple venturis on the primaries. Just like computers, it all depends on who's doing the tuning and how well they know the carb.
Last edited by glass slipper; Jun 23, 2007 at 12:34 AM.
Melting Slicks
Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 2,630
Likes: 0
From: Studio City CA
Does the LS2 respond better than the LS6? From what I've seen when I peruse the C5Z forum, the LS6 and LS2 look about equal when we add the basics, such as long-tubes, intake, tune. Then again, they often have a little more juice stock so maybe the LS2 does respond a little better.
(lucky bastard)It will all be sepculation until we get the marks from the owners, and tuners.
But if it comes down to tighter restrictions, then the lS6.2 will be a bitch to deal with.
It will be less than 2 months before the 1st hit the new owners.
Still, no one has answered the Z06 factor.
Is the Z06 going to get the same computer restrictions in the 08's?
LEX
Le Mans Master
Joined: May 2006
Posts: 8,824
Likes: 3
From: The left Coast
St. Jude Donor '08
The poor MPG of the old carbed cars was more a function of the cam and engine/car design, not the carb. Give me an old Quadrajet and some dyno time and I can get you up to 500 HP (cam/heads of course as well as headers) and 20+ MPG on an LS2. With two even older 4-Jets, 600 HP and 20+ MPG on an LS7 are a piece of cake...but I'll need more dyno time (4-Jets have 4 floats and ~10 adjustments per float ), a 2X4 tunnel ram manifold, and exhaust gas temperature monitors for each cylinder. The only thing that beats a venturi for fuel atomization is the new direct injection systems, and the Q'jet has triple venturis on the primaries. Just like computers, it all depends on who's doing the tuning and how well they know the carb.
), a 2X4 tunnel ram manifold, and exhaust gas temperature monitors for each cylinder. The only thing that beats a venturi for fuel atomization is the new direct injection systems, and the Q'jet has triple venturis on the primaries. Just like computers, it all depends on who's doing the tuning and how well they know the carb. 
Race Director
Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 10,089
Likes: 14
I remember back when I had my 3rd Gen RX-7, one tuner came up with a piggy-back computer that basically hijacked the signal from the EEC-IV ECU, modified the values, and sent it back to the computer. You controlled boost electronically as well as the transition from single to twin turbo operation, fuel maps, ignition advance, etc. all from inside the car - back in 1993. It was trick, that's for sure!
Le Mans Master
Joined: Jul 2005
Posts: 5,328
Likes: 405
Corvette Stories
The Best of Corvette for Corvette Enthusiasts
Top 10 Most Expensive Corvettes Ever Sold on Bring A Trailer
Brett Foote
10 Things Every Corvette Owner Needs (2026 Edition)
Michael S. Palmer
8 Most "Only Corvette Owners Understand" Quirks and Problems
Pouria Savadkouei
10 Reasons the C6 Z06 is Still A Performance Benchmark After 20 Years
Joe Kucinski
How Much Horsepower Every Corvette Engine "LOST" in 1972
Joe Kucinski
Top 10 DOs and DON'Ts for Protecting Your Convertible Top!
Michael S. Palmer
Top 10 Most Explosive Corvettes Ever Made: Power-to-Weight Ratio Ranked!
Joe Kucinski
150 hp to 1,250 hp: Every Corvette Generation Compared by the Specs That Matter
Joe Kucinski
8 Coolest Corvette Pace Cars (and Replicas) of All Time
Verdad Gallardo
Supporting Vendor
Joined: Jun 2004
Posts: 692
Likes: 13
We will do what we can to bring tuning solutions to the LS3 equipped vehicles as soon as possible.
We have been pretty good in the past about being first to market with many of the new platforms, years, and ECM's.
We have been pretty good in the past about being first to market with many of the new platforms, years, and ECM's.
__________________
https://www.hptuners.com/https://www.hptuners.com/
https://www.hptuners.com/https://www.hptuners.com/
These guys have a great product. 
Melting Slicks
Joined: Feb 2004
Posts: 3,131
Likes: 148
From: Sugar Land TX
Sounds good Keith. I was thinking of updating to an 08 but without tuning I would keep my "old" 07 for sure. It would be great even if only minumal management is available like shift points, fans, converter lock speeds, etc.
Supporting Vendor
Joined: Jun 2004
Posts: 692
Likes: 13
Indeed.
Its very difficult to modify any type of performance vehicle without tuning these days.
When new platforms are released we get e-mails from people who have highly modified vehicles, just weeks after they have gone public with nothing to tune, and the cars run just aweful.
We don't want you guys to wait any longer than you have to. As soon as our product is tested for production use, we'll let you guys have it.
Its very difficult to modify any type of performance vehicle without tuning these days.
When new platforms are released we get e-mails from people who have highly modified vehicles, just weeks after they have gone public with nothing to tune, and the cars run just aweful.
We don't want you guys to wait any longer than you have to. As soon as our product is tested for production use, we'll let you guys have it.
Pro
Joined: May 2000
Posts: 610
Likes: 1
From: Midland Texas
St. Jude Donor '09-'11
I do mainly Ford tuning, but I love using HPTuners software for the few local GM cars I tune. There will be some ragged LS3 cars out there for a few months, my bet, until Keith releases the LS3 updates. Worth the wait.
Joe
Joe
Team Owner
Joined: Feb 2000
Posts: 45,484
Likes: 892
From: Texas
CI 1-4-5-8-9-10 Vet
St. Jude Donor '03 thru '10, '17
Race Director
Joined: Jan 2000
Posts: 12,375
Likes: 406
From: Florida
Hey, I'm even, OK. You forget I'm the one who predicted the Z06 would have a 427 because that was the only engine that made sense for emissions and power, back when you and others were convinced it would be a 6.4L or some such thing. No one told me about 08 power. I made a guess and I was wrong. Happens, ya know.
Can we please move on now?Keith, I take it the changes to LS3 PCM are not that big a deal?
Last edited by TTRotary; Jun 24, 2007 at 01:32 AM.
Banned Scam/Spammer
Joined: Mar 2005
Posts: 8,083
Likes: 3,869
From: Bonita Springs FL
Whatever the change is, it is for 08 onward and does not include 07. I don't think GM did this to screw the aftermarket. This is instead a fuel-saving change permitting the car to operate more efficiently when not in closed loop: instead of fixed fuel maps, the engine adjusts for conditions, allowing each engine to run at maximum efficiency in all regimes. But it also means tuners cannot make permanent changes to the WOT maps.
We just need to wait and see. This may be a blessing in that the computer adjusts for mods (no more tune needed for say headers CAI rockers baby cam) or it may be a nightmare. And other solutions will come up.
I remember back when I had my 3rd Gen RX-7, one tuner came up with a piggy-back computer that basically hijacked the signal from the EEC-IV ECU, modified the values, and sent it back to the computer. You controlled boost electronically as well as the transition from single to twin turbo operation, fuel maps, ignition advance, etc. all from inside the car - back in 1993. It was trick, that's for sure!
We just need to wait and see. This may be a blessing in that the computer adjusts for mods (no more tune needed for say headers CAI rockers baby cam) or it may be a nightmare. And other solutions will come up.
I remember back when I had my 3rd Gen RX-7, one tuner came up with a piggy-back computer that basically hijacked the signal from the EEC-IV ECU, modified the values, and sent it back to the computer. You controlled boost electronically as well as the transition from single to twin turbo operation, fuel maps, ignition advance, etc. all from inside the car - back in 1993. It was trick, that's for sure!
Maybe just wishfull thinking that you could add headers, intake and not need to address the computer to compensate for the greater efficiency.
Former Vendor
Joined: Feb 2004
Posts: 9,615
Likes: 13
From: Burlington NC
I assure you the computer will not keep a racer out. Thousands of man hours will be put into the new system until it is fully fuctional. Then the new cars will be better because of the faster-smarter new ECU.
Randy
Randy
Drifting
Joined: Jul 2000
Posts: 1,861
Likes: 1
From: Bremerton WA
St. Jude Donor '09
Bolt-on's are already in production. Halltech has CAI's already sorted out. I have already ported a few L92 intake manifolds, too. I've already got the TB porting covered as well.
Tuning will be great when available. I run HP Tuners Pro so I'll be looking for the new releases, too!
Tuning will be great when available. I run HP Tuners Pro so I'll be looking for the new releases, too!