Vararam Vs Vortex Ram Air.....?
Drifting
Joined: May 2007
Posts: 1,407
Likes: 0
From: Canton/Detroit Michigan
OK - that's a great debate; thanks everyone to share their (hopefully unbiased) experience, and it seems like there is an agreement for sure: CAI are worth it. Which one makes more sense to install, still the question remains... A few criteria to consider:
- Price: Vortex $485, Var $399 (or better) for C6 LS2
- Overheating issues: only rumors - no measurements, a few conflicting opinions
- Performance: no true side by side comparison; both seems to shave 0.4 sec or more on the 1/4 miles; pretty good
- Reliability/durability: no concern reported, but little data (still a "yound product" for C6)
- Ease of installation: no comparative data - I would guess pretty close
- Ease of maintenance: no comparative data - I would guess pretty close
- Fuel economy impact ??? anybody knows?
any other criterium(a) to consider?
- Price: Vortex $485, Var $399 (or better) for C6 LS2
- Overheating issues: only rumors - no measurements, a few conflicting opinions
- Performance: no true side by side comparison; both seems to shave 0.4 sec or more on the 1/4 miles; pretty good
- Reliability/durability: no concern reported, but little data (still a "yound product" for C6)
- Ease of installation: no comparative data - I would guess pretty close
- Ease of maintenance: no comparative data - I would guess pretty close
- Fuel economy impact ??? anybody knows?
any other criterium(a) to consider?
How about sucking in water? The Vararam has this issue from the reading I've done. The Vortex gets it's ram air from the radiator shroud area and is pointing in a direction that avoids possible water in the engine. An important thing to consider, possibly.
I'm leaning towards a Vortex. I like the looks. I've heard also that the Vararam system is not made that well but then again, I currently have NEITHER !
Safety Car
Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 4,157
Likes: 37
From: North Carolina
St. Jude Donor '07-'08-'09-'11-'12
jacobasso ,
Any CAI should give you better fuel economy, especially if you tune your engine to take advantage of the extra cooler air....well....in theory anyway...with the extra power, you tend to lay your foot into it more for sure...
Drifting
Joined: May 2007
Posts: 1,407
Likes: 0
From: Canton/Detroit Michigan
It does? Could you show us where you have proof of this, not just the theoretical possibility of it? Id be really interested in seeing a case where someone has had engine damage or stalling due to water ingestion through a Vararam intake. Come to think of it, other than Katrina related cars, I cant think of any water ingestion problems reported here or any of the other forums we are on.
jacobasso ,
Any CAI should give you better fuel economy, especially if you tune your engine to take advantage of the extra cooler air....well....in theory anyway...with the extra power, you tend to lay your foot into it more for sure...
jacobasso ,
Any CAI should give you better fuel economy, especially if you tune your engine to take advantage of the extra cooler air....well....in theory anyway...with the extra power, you tend to lay your foot into it more for sure...
Last edited by SnapperDragon; Nov 8, 2007 at 03:50 PM.
Safety Car
Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 4,157
Likes: 37
From: North Carolina
St. Jude Donor '07-'08-'09-'11-'12
No need to be sorry...we all want to know the good and bad. When I have a customer ask me "What do you think?", if there is a caveat, I want to be able to advise him of it. This forum is a great real time quality control dept when used right....if only GM would listen more closely..
Thanks for posting the link.
Thanks for posting the link.
Team Owner
Joined: Mar 2005
Posts: 20,933
Likes: 905
From: salem OR
How many Vararam's on this site!It's a lot and NObody is overheating! Many race at tracks! This should be a clue! Hmm! I think your all wet! No way possible the Vararam Is causing overheating. The main cooling air comes
from the air dam. U could block the grill like the c-5's, No grill
all cooling from the Airdam!
Melting Slicks
Joined: Mar 1999
Posts: 2,324
Likes: 0
From: Fort Lauderdale Fl
Install time on the Vortex is about 45min
We provide a one piece no seam Carbon Bridge there’s is plastic
We give you the silicone coupler from the throttle body to the bridge they do not.( They retain the accordion factory coupler )
Our intake is mounted much higher for water protection.
Our filter is a conical style that flows over 1000 cfm with a built in merge tip to increase velocity and volume.
Our intake area is about 100sq inches there’s is about 20sq at the scoop
We take advantage of the 3 foot lower air dam to force the max air pressure to our box and filter.
To remove the filter for cleaning it takes about 5 min
Hope that helps.
Ernie
www.BreathlessPerformance.com
We provide a one piece no seam Carbon Bridge there’s is plastic
We give you the silicone coupler from the throttle body to the bridge they do not.( They retain the accordion factory coupler )
Our intake is mounted much higher for water protection.
Our filter is a conical style that flows over 1000 cfm with a built in merge tip to increase velocity and volume.
Our intake area is about 100sq inches there’s is about 20sq at the scoop
We take advantage of the 3 foot lower air dam to force the max air pressure to our box and filter.
To remove the filter for cleaning it takes about 5 min
Hope that helps.
Ernie
www.BreathlessPerformance.com
Team Owner
Joined: Mar 2005
Posts: 20,933
Likes: 905
From: salem OR
Install time on the Vortex is about 45min
We provide a one piece no seam Carbon Bridge there’s is plastic
Most parts under the hood including the airdam are plastic!
Theres has no seam!
We give you the silicone coupler from the throttle body to the bridge they do not.( They retain the accordion factory coupler )
They gave me 3 silcone couplers and a MAF meter,to which you transfer
your sensor!
Our intake is mounted much higher for water protection.
There's is where it is for perfect ramair.
Yours is NOT ramair!
Our filter is a conical style that flows over 1000 cfm with a built in merge tip to increase velocity and volume.
There filter has more area than yours!
Our intake area is about 100sq inches there’s is about 20sq at the scoop
100sq in? So what car needs a 10 by 10 intake! And there's is BIGGER than 20 inches. First You said there filter was 20 sq inches, Now it's the intake!
We take advantage of the 3 foot lower air dam to force the max air pressure to our box and filter.
No pressure possible from forced air
in you location the radiator HAS to bleed all pressure.
There's has REAL pressure!
Same car, switch intakes, yours loses! Check there website
They do real world tests with yours and 3-4 others
To remove the filter for cleaning it takes about 5 min
Hope that helps.
Ernie
www.BreathlessPerformance.com
We provide a one piece no seam Carbon Bridge there’s is plastic
Most parts under the hood including the airdam are plastic!
Theres has no seam!
We give you the silicone coupler from the throttle body to the bridge they do not.( They retain the accordion factory coupler )
They gave me 3 silcone couplers and a MAF meter,to which you transfer
your sensor!
Our intake is mounted much higher for water protection.
There's is where it is for perfect ramair.
Yours is NOT ramair!
Our filter is a conical style that flows over 1000 cfm with a built in merge tip to increase velocity and volume.
There filter has more area than yours!
Our intake area is about 100sq inches there’s is about 20sq at the scoop
100sq in? So what car needs a 10 by 10 intake! And there's is BIGGER than 20 inches. First You said there filter was 20 sq inches, Now it's the intake!
We take advantage of the 3 foot lower air dam to force the max air pressure to our box and filter.
No pressure possible from forced air
in you location the radiator HAS to bleed all pressure.
There's has REAL pressure!
Same car, switch intakes, yours loses! Check there website
They do real world tests with yours and 3-4 others
To remove the filter for cleaning it takes about 5 min
Hope that helps.
Ernie
www.BreathlessPerformance.com
Last edited by 3 Z06ZR1; Nov 8, 2007 at 04:39 PM.
Melting Slicks
Joined: Mar 1999
Posts: 2,324
Likes: 0
From: Fort Lauderdale Fl
Corvette Stories
The Best of Corvette for Corvette Enthusiasts
Top 10 Most Expensive Corvettes Ever Sold on Bring A Trailer
Brett Foote
10 Things Every Corvette Owner Needs (2026 Edition)
Michael S. Palmer
8 Most "Only Corvette Owners Understand" Quirks and Problems
Pouria Savadkouei
10 Reasons the C6 Z06 is Still A Performance Benchmark After 20 Years
Joe Kucinski
How Much Horsepower Every Corvette Engine "LOST" in 1972
Joe Kucinski
Top 10 DOs and DON'Ts for Protecting Your Convertible Top!
Michael S. Palmer
Top 10 Most Explosive Corvettes Ever Made: Power-to-Weight Ratio Ranked!
Joe Kucinski
150 hp to 1,250 hp: Every Corvette Generation Compared by the Specs That Matter
Joe Kucinski
8 Coolest Corvette Pace Cars (and Replicas) of All Time
Verdad Gallardo
Team Owner
Joined: Mar 2005
Posts: 20,933
Likes: 905
From: salem OR
Melting Slicks
Joined: Mar 1999
Posts: 2,324
Likes: 0
From: Fort Lauderdale Fl
You really got upset, you must work for Vararam.
If you measure there intake scoop it is only about 20 inchs sq
As for ours not a ram air.... we hold the record at 11.44@ 119 and made 2 tenths and 3 mph on the customer car. By the way stick a manometer at our location and you will find higher air pressure.
As for racing we hold challenges at Beach Bend, KY for there major Corvette shows every year and we are the only ones to show face. Vararam is never shows.
We hold more records then Vararam that includes the Nevada top speed run at over 200mph.
Loosen a clamp and our filter pops out, sorry 3 min.
By the way panel filters have good voluum but lose in velocity.
Heres a trick question how much surface area does the Vortex filter have?
Ernie
www.BreathlessPerformance.com
If you measure there intake scoop it is only about 20 inchs sq
As for ours not a ram air.... we hold the record at 11.44@ 119 and made 2 tenths and 3 mph on the customer car. By the way stick a manometer at our location and you will find higher air pressure.
As for racing we hold challenges at Beach Bend, KY for there major Corvette shows every year and we are the only ones to show face. Vararam is never shows.
We hold more records then Vararam that includes the Nevada top speed run at over 200mph.
Loosen a clamp and our filter pops out, sorry 3 min.
By the way panel filters have good voluum but lose in velocity.
Heres a trick question how much surface area does the Vortex filter have?
Ernie
www.BreathlessPerformance.com
Race Director
Joined: Mar 2005
Posts: 11,549
Likes: 27
From: Southampton NJ
You really got upset, you must work for Vararam.
If you measure there intake scoop it is only about 20 inchs sq
As for ours not a ram air.... we hold the record at 11.44@ 119 and made 2 tenths and 3 mph on the customer car. By the way stick a manometer at our location and you will find higher air pressure.
As for racing we hold challenges at Beach Bend, KY for there major Corvette shows every year and we are the only ones to show face. Vararam is never shows.
We hold more records then Vararam that includes the Nevada top speed run at over 200mph.
Loosen a clamp and our filter pops out, sorry 3 min.
By the way panel filters have good voluum but lose in velocity.
Heres a trick question how much surface area does the Vortex filter have?
Ernie
www.BreathlessPerformance.com
If you measure there intake scoop it is only about 20 inchs sq
As for ours not a ram air.... we hold the record at 11.44@ 119 and made 2 tenths and 3 mph on the customer car. By the way stick a manometer at our location and you will find higher air pressure.
As for racing we hold challenges at Beach Bend, KY for there major Corvette shows every year and we are the only ones to show face. Vararam is never shows.
We hold more records then Vararam that includes the Nevada top speed run at over 200mph.
Loosen a clamp and our filter pops out, sorry 3 min.
By the way panel filters have good voluum but lose in velocity.
Heres a trick question how much surface area does the Vortex filter have?
Ernie
www.BreathlessPerformance.com
Melting Slicks
Joined: Mar 1999
Posts: 2,324
Likes: 0
From: Fort Lauderdale Fl
No cause it is really easy to cut the shroud with a utility knife. We provide a template to mark the shroud. If you were to replace the shroud it would take you an extra 2 hours.
If you ever want to go back to stock buy a new one from GM for about 50.00 in which you probably never will.
As far as installing it takes us about 20 min
Ernie
www.BreathlessPerformance.com
954-925-7725
If you ever want to go back to stock buy a new one from GM for about 50.00 in which you probably never will.
As far as installing it takes us about 20 min
Ernie
www.BreathlessPerformance.com
954-925-7725
Melting Slicks
Joined: Mar 1999
Posts: 2,324
Likes: 0
From: Fort Lauderdale Fl
Racer
Joined: Apr 2004
Posts: 412
Likes: 0
From: Charleston SC
No cause it is really easy to cut the shroud with a utility knife. We provide a template to mark the shroud. If you were to replace the shroud it would take you an extra 2 hours.
If you ever want to go back to stock buy a new one from GM for about 50.00 in which you probably never will.
As far as installing it takes us about 20 min
Ernie
www.BreathlessPerformance.com
954-925-7725
If you ever want to go back to stock buy a new one from GM for about 50.00 in which you probably never will.
As far as installing it takes us about 20 min
Ernie
www.BreathlessPerformance.com
954-925-7725
My concern is that it is easy to damage the radiator while cutting the shroud -- at least that is what i've read about installing the vararam.. the fins beneath the shroud are easily damaged and if you hit one by accident you are out of luck....
Is this ever a problem with the vortex? Maybe it is a different area of the shroud being cut or something... ?
Race Director
Joined: Feb 2006
Posts: 11,733
Likes: 15
From: SC
Just saw a guy post 121mph traps with a Vararam on his 08 LS3. Taking ET out of the result (that is all in traction, mph indicates top end power) seems the Vararam holds fastest intake on an LS3 for a bolt-on car..........
Race Director
Joined: Mar 2005
Posts: 11,549
Likes: 27
From: Southampton NJ
yes lets get the facts straight, any one can use the cai of choice so lets give the info accurately with no bias. i get nothing from vr and have had great success in my ets and mph. this was posted a long time ago but here are the results 12.919 109.48 before vr 27 oct 2005
after vr 12.387 113.36 march 5 2006 check the weather records less than 10 ft difference in da. that's a pickup of 5.32 tenths and 3.88 mph now that's truly ram air. the vr gave me the biggest gain of any mod i have done to date
after vr 12.387 113.36 march 5 2006 check the weather records less than 10 ft difference in da. that's a pickup of 5.32 tenths and 3.88 mph now that's truly ram air. the vr gave me the biggest gain of any mod i have done to date
Team Owner
Joined: Mar 2005
Posts: 20,933
Likes: 905
From: salem OR
You really got upset, you must work for Vararam.
No, Not upset! Don't really like the distorted facts that your post was full of! Don't work for Vararam, Just Know that they have the BEST Ram-air cai on the market!
If you measure there intake scoop it is only about 20 inchs sq.
first you said the filter was 20 sq in.
Just measured the scoup, YOU didn't It is 7 3/4 by 6 at it's widest point.Closer to 50 sq inches than 20
As for ours not a ram air.... we hold the record at 11.44@ 119 and made 2 tenths and 3 mph on the customer car. By the way stick a manometer at our location and you will find higher air pressure.
Still not ram-air! Those ls-3's can run those traps stock with a propped shroud! The 11.44 is all converter and drag radials! Far from the fastest which will appear!
As for racing we hold challenges at Beach Bend, KY for there major Corvette shows every year and we are the only ones to show face. Vararam is never shows.
They compared apples to apples, Yours to there's Read there website
Call'em on it! If it's not right! Shows plainly there's is showing better times and traps speeds.
We hold more records then Vararam that includes the Nevada top speed run at over 200mph.
Loosen a clamp and our filter pops out, sorry 3 min.
By the way panel filters have good voluum but lose in velocity.
Heres a trick question how much surface area does the Vortex filter have? No idea but less than the Vararam filter!
]www.BreathlessPerformance.com[/url]
No, Not upset! Don't really like the distorted facts that your post was full of! Don't work for Vararam, Just Know that they have the BEST Ram-air cai on the market!
If you measure there intake scoop it is only about 20 inchs sq.
first you said the filter was 20 sq in.
Just measured the scoup, YOU didn't It is 7 3/4 by 6 at it's widest point.Closer to 50 sq inches than 20
As for ours not a ram air.... we hold the record at 11.44@ 119 and made 2 tenths and 3 mph on the customer car. By the way stick a manometer at our location and you will find higher air pressure.
Still not ram-air! Those ls-3's can run those traps stock with a propped shroud! The 11.44 is all converter and drag radials! Far from the fastest which will appear!
As for racing we hold challenges at Beach Bend, KY for there major Corvette shows every year and we are the only ones to show face. Vararam is never shows.
They compared apples to apples, Yours to there's Read there website
Call'em on it! If it's not right! Shows plainly there's is showing better times and traps speeds.
We hold more records then Vararam that includes the Nevada top speed run at over 200mph.
Loosen a clamp and our filter pops out, sorry 3 min.
By the way panel filters have good voluum but lose in velocity.
Heres a trick question how much surface area does the Vortex filter have? No idea but less than the Vararam filter!
]www.BreathlessPerformance.com[/url]
Team Owner
Joined: Mar 2005
Posts: 20,933
Likes: 905
From: salem OR
Drifting
Joined: May 2007
Posts: 1,407
Likes: 0
From: Canton/Detroit Michigan
Let's assume the benefits are similar.
Next thing people want to compare is cost.
OK, maybe the VR is a bit cheaper. However, it is not carbon fiber, just plastic (correct?).
The Vortex looks pretty tough and neat. Nothing sticking out where you can see it. Maybe some people want a snorkle in the air scoop area?
Anyway, where is the Vararam made? I think the Vortex is made in the USA and to me that has value that I'm willing to pay extra for.
Also, I'd like to be unique, so if the other differences are accounted for, I may decide to go with the unique option.
In the end, same idea, different execution. But I do like the explanation of how the Vortex does it's thing, which is to have the intake/filter located in an area that is already delivering a lot of air pressure due to the air dam. Makes sense. It doesn't look as gimmicky, either, but no slam on anybody that likes VR better! I have neither at this point, so I'm still debating what to do.
Next thing people want to compare is cost.
OK, maybe the VR is a bit cheaper. However, it is not carbon fiber, just plastic (correct?).
The Vortex looks pretty tough and neat. Nothing sticking out where you can see it. Maybe some people want a snorkle in the air scoop area?
Anyway, where is the Vararam made? I think the Vortex is made in the USA and to me that has value that I'm willing to pay extra for.
Also, I'd like to be unique, so if the other differences are accounted for, I may decide to go with the unique option.
In the end, same idea, different execution. But I do like the explanation of how the Vortex does it's thing, which is to have the intake/filter located in an area that is already delivering a lot of air pressure due to the air dam. Makes sense. It doesn't look as gimmicky, either, but no slam on anybody that likes VR better! I have neither at this point, so I'm still debating what to do.