Check the hotrod.com article "dyno flog." The Z06 cam made more power in the LS2 than the stock LS2 cam. So did the manifolds (int/exh.) Watch for a 425 (rated) hp LS2 C6 next year - GM already has the parts and has used them before.

EDIT: By Z06 I obviously mean the LS6 Z06 cam, not LS7.

 

I had Active Handling and Traction control turned completely off. They had theirs on. In both cases, they are good friends of mine, and they will both tell you that is was no contest.

I have not outrun a Z06. I've run two of them (both good friends as well). Both of them have headers, high flow cats, exhaust, cold air and tuning - and dyno at about 385 rwhp. In both cases, I would stay with them for a few seconds, and then they would slowly start to pull me. I feel certain that if they were stock they would not have pulled away from me. It was extremely close up to about 120mph.

 

Thanks , mine also feels significantly quicker with both off. If would be interesting to run one of your friends again and this time keep them on to see the results and then to run again and this time you keep yours on and have him turn both off.If the first one is close and if you get to see his tail lights in the second ''experiment''---then the cheapest and first ''mod'' is to hold that silly button down for 10 seconds.

 

Guys I love you cas your my Vette brothers....04 coupe owner here..

Ive been going to the track every weekend for years and...

The typical stock C6 is running 13.1 at 110 mph

The typical stock 04 Z06 is running 12.6 at 114 mph

Yes there have been a few stock C6's that CLAIMED 12.5 or so at 114

Yes there have been a few stock 04 Z06's that CLAIMED 11.9 or so at 117

The REALITY is that at a track a Z06 will normally be 5 tenths and 4 mph quicker than a C6....

The Z06 is over 100 pounds lighter and also has more agressive gearing from the m12....

It will also typicaly dyno 10 rwhp higher than the C6

It also dosent have tourqe managment killing the power between shifts.

So give the Z06 a tenth for weight
Another tenth for gearing
Another tenth for the typical 10 rwhp on the dyno
And then 2 more tenths for the C6's torque managment

Thats why the C5 Z06 is faster guys (NORMALLY) 90% of the time....

If GM gets the tourque managment right with a stronger trannie in the 2006 C6...

It will be much closer to a drivers race.

 

Are you comparing the 04 Z06 to the 05 Z51?Or just a base 05 vette??different gearing on the z51's,you know.

 

This has been debated many times on this forum. Everyone is welcome to their own opinions on what is real and what is not. But I will give you a few things to think about. There are very few C6's with 6 speeds and Z51 that have been run by experienced drag racers in good weather conditions. On the other hand, there have been many experienced drag racers who have been running the C5 Z06. I think what you are seeing is driver experience more than the difference between the two cars.

If you look through the C5 Z06 posts, you will see many Z06's that have run in the 13's by inexperienced drivers. Also, look at both GM and all of the major magazine times for the two cars. They are within 1 to 2/10ths and 1-2 mph in trap speed. How do you explain that?

Finally, there have now been serveral reports of imprompu street races between the C6 and the C5 Z06. In almost every case, the C6 stays with the Z06, and some have even outrun it. More than one of these reports on this forum have been from a C6 owner who was dissapointed in what he had been seeing in 1/4 mile times here on the forum UNTIL he ran the Z06. Side by side "roll-ons" takes away a lot of the driver difference as these roll-ons are not usually from a dead stop, which is were most of the good times come from.

 

Most reported magazine times are usually corrected times. That would explain why they are so close in times and mph. The vehicles used in testing are also usually the best of the bunch with a crew on hand to tune. Also the times given are the best runs out of however many runs they made that day or over a period of time whether it be 20 runs or 100 runs. Most people off the street are not going to duplicate the magazine times due to driver inexperience and lack of tuning knowledge. It also helps when the car doesn't belong to you and you can drive it as hard as you want to. Mines is faster than what I have been but I'm not looking to bring it home on a flatbed either. I've owned the C5 and the C6 and the C6 doesn't feel as fast because it runs smoother but it definitely is faster. I know it can be discouraging for the average guy to go to the track and not be able to come close to what is reported so I just figured this info might help them. When I brought my car to the track there weren't any other C6's running as fast as mines. But I wouldn't discourage them and tell them I drove off the showroom to the track and turned those times. I'd like to see more racers at the track not people who come and get pissed at their numbers and never return.

 

Where to start

First off, did you know that the transmission gearing in an MN6 Z51 C6 is the exact same in gears 1,2,3, and 4 as in the C5 Z06? They both have 3.42 differentials as well.

A Z06 is indeed about 100lbs lighter, but thats worth a tenth at most and is hardly enough to seperate the two cars unless we are talking about professionals or very good amateurs. Weekend warriors are probably not going to be able to consistently take advantage of that tenth afforded by the weight.

The tires on the Z06 are non runflat, have a wider contact patch, and are an 18 inch vs a 19 inch tire on the C6. P295/35ZR-18 vs P285/35ZR-19

The tires make the difference here. 2.0 and up 60ft times are the norm on the C6s tires. 1.9s, which aren't that great, are rare on the C6s runflats. 60s are usually, not always, but usually, going to be 2.0 and worse. Sometimes much worse.

What were the 60ft times of those Z06s you saw and what were the 60ft times of those C6s you saw? What tires were they running?

The C6 dynos at around 340-350 RWHP. About 10 RWHP below the 02-04 Z06. But again the tires have to be taken into account.

When people are able to put a decent tire for drag racing onto the C6 you are going to see a huge difference. But for now.... those 12.4s are safe.

Torque management is the source of a lot of controversy with regard to the C6. But the tires play a big role..

Any of this ultimately comes down to the driver. I was at the track last weekend and saw a guy with an 02 Z06 making 380 RWHP run a couple 13s and finally a 12.9. He had LGs headers, Vararam, PCM tuning, and was on his street tires. This was while my buddy was running 12.56, 12.53 in his bone stock '03 Z06 on down to the wear bars stock tires.

 

Actually the Z51 has the same gearing as the C5 Z06. I believe it is 90% torque management. I believe late in development of the C6 the short comings in the differential started to show and at that point it was too late to incorporate design changes in the 2005 cars so as a band-aid for our cars the torque management was turned up to the point that it actually hampers the performance of these cars. I also believe there is some variance in the degree of torque management and the style of the driver makes a huge difference in the way the car runs while it is in effect. The other thing is that the LS2 hates hot air you are not going to see the full potential of these these cars in hot weather. I am pretty sure the best of the passes that have been made were in cool weather. I believe the beloved Z06 will end up about 2-3 tenths faster than a tuned stock C6. One for HP, one for weight, and one for tires.

 

Put 18 inch drag radials on both cars and make no other modifications to either, and its a driver's race.

But you bring up a good point. The "gripe", if you can call it that is that with these cars, its hard to get a good tire for drag racing, on it.

I am looking into drag radials, but you first need an 18in wheel to fit our cars, and possibly even wheel sensors.

Then its a manual, so that DTE brace almost becomes a must if you are going to run drag radials with any degree of frequency at all. And its not bulletproof.

My last car had a line lock, and if I run DRs I will not be without a line lock.

And a shift light would be nice

WIth my old car, all I had to do was find two decent drag radials. They could be mounted on wagon wheels, and the car was an auto so I didn't worry so much about the drive line.

 

At that point it is going to be very close.


I also am going to invest in a DTE brace, I believe ther business is going to be good as I have broke one housing on run flats.

 

Today I ran my C6 Auto Z-51 for the first time, and my first trip to the strip in over 20 years. Car is Dynoed at 360/360 RW. Rear tires are 305/30/19 PS2's.

60 ... 2.016
330 ... 5.583
1/8 ... 8.431
MPH ... 87.29
1000 .. 10.872
1/4 ... 12.938
MPH ... 108.60

Partly Cloudy 86°
Humidity: 70%
Wind Speed: SSW 7 MPH
Barometer: 29.80 in.
Dewpoint: 75°
Heat Index: 95°
Wind Chill: 86°
@ Bradenton Motorsports Park .. Bradenton,FL

 

Guys...You see the above post....

He ran a 12.9 at 108 mph....

His 2.0 is a descent 60 ft....

Im assuming he has a mod or 2 since 360 rwhp and 360 rwt is extremely high for a C6 if it's bone stock.

MPH dosent lie guys....Im sure some of you sre happy that he posted a suppossedly bone stock time of 12.9 at 108 mph....Thats better than most of you who never broke 13's stock...

But once again the reality is that if this were a guy posting about his stock track times in the Z06 forum everyone would think somthings wrong with his car....

12.9 at 108 mph would be extremly slow for a Z06.....A stock C5 coupe can trap 108 in the 1/4 mile and 13.0's and 13.1's are commin and know big deal....

Ive got a post up in C5 performance right now of what people ran bone stock....

So far out of only 15 post weve got one guy with a 12.9 stock and many 13.0-13.3's at 106 through 111 mph....

Those numbers sound pretty familiar? It should cas there exactly what the C6 is running..

Make no mistake the C6 will typically dyno 40 rwhp higher than the C5 and weighs the same.

It should be destroying it by a solid 4 tenths in the 1/4 mile.....But the T.M. just takes so much power away between each shift while the C6 is still in it's powerband and then it's a drivers race...


But you will only see this at the track..The reason a C6 will usualy beat a C5 by 3-4 carlengths on the street and usualy only loose to a Z06 by 1-2 carlengths (hanging with it)on the street is simple...

When you go from a 50-70 mph roll there are less gear changes before you hit 100 or so mph and shut down....

Were do you think GM added the most TM???

Up high were the chance of the rear breaking is minimal?

Or the correct awnswer.....The launch (1'st gear) and then the 1-2 shift seond gear were the power might possibly break the weak trannie...

By 3rd gear theres much less a chance of somthing breaking and so not as much TM.....

THATS WHY THE C6 IS KILLING THE C5 AND HANGING WITH THE Z06 ON THE STREET....THAT SIMPLE.

 

My car is NOT stock .. LG Longtubes w/3" X-pipe, Corsa Sports, Halltech Stinger and tune by Jeremy Formato.

I was at the 'Corvette Challenge' race today .. and the 'bone stock' C5, with a well seasoned driver turned 13.9's all day. There were a couple of modded C5 ZO6's that have run mid 11's that could not get out of the low 12's.

My point is this .. the results are going to be as diverse as the drivers, cars, tracks and temps.

http://forums.corvetteforum.com/show...87&forum_id=90

 

I would concede that the c5 Z06 is quicker then the C6. I t may not be by much and a poor driver in the Z06 may lose to a good driver in a C6. Now after this concession I would like to speak for a lot of C6 owners--WE DON'T CARE. Some of us wanted the new look, the open roof, the refinement. I personally test drove an 04 MY Z06 and flogged the bad boy. I could have bought it for a lot less then the 05---but I didn't want it. You can always buy FASTER or spend to get FASTER---but it ultimately comes down to what you want to drive. I have a friend who put some dough in his Cobra ragtop ---he will beat my AZZ---but I don't care. 12.7 and 110 in a bone stock A4 is quick enough for me. The new EVO'S will turn 12.8 stock----with mods they will show a z06 something unexpected---but I don't want one.

In the words of that great American---RODNEY KING---can't we all just get along????????????

 

I agree with what you've said but you also need to look at the weather conditions in which he ran. Not exactly conducive to great times at the track.

 

There are a few problems with trying to compare time slips from around the country. A lot of ETs and trap speeds are offered in this forum with no description of weather conditions or track conditions.

His Corrected ET and trap speed come to 12.6 @111.44
http://www.modulardepot.com/density.php his track sits at a physical altitude of 50ft.

Like I said before, I was just at the track last week and saw a C5 Z06 with LGs headers, Vararam, tuning, and every other traditional bolt on, making 380 RWHP run a best of 12.9.


http://z06vette.com/forums/showthread.php?t=53940

Be sure to scroll down to where he talks about getting 1.78 second 60ft times on stock tires. It is extremely tough get anywhere near that on a runflat.

The best C6 claim I have ever seen reported here on a runflat is 1.83. And that was one instance. There is also a 1.879 reported, and J schindlers 1.9s are reported. Interestingly these are the C6s where 12.4x second quarter mile times were reported.

But these sub 2.0 60s on runflats are the clear exception and hardly the rule. Track prep would have had to play a role in getting such "good" 60ft times on a runflat tire.

That 1.83 is around what I was getting on well heated drag radials at my home track in my C5. And heres a guy getting that on runflats?

Once again though, a significant amount of what you are describing comes down to the tires. If the above poster had been able to get a 1.78 and pick up .22 seconds on his 60s it would have been worth 3-4 tenths in his ET.

BTW.....I thought you were familiar....aren't you the guy with the 2.73 geared 2004 A4 C5 who went and dropped a ton of dough and had LS6/Z06 heads and cam installed into your LS1, effectively giving it a "Z06 engine" after everyone had recommended torque converter and gears for best 1/4 mile track results?

And if not the gears, then there were those who recommended at least a real heads and cam package.

As I recall, you saw dissapointing results, as everyone predicted, after this "LS1 to LS6 conversion, and then ended up putting a real cam (Thunder Racing 224/224 on a ?LSA) into your car?

Are you still attempting to drag race that car with those 2.73s and that stock converter and now that cam????

http://forums.corvetteforum.com/show....php?t=1215682

Interesting. Tell us, how many bone stock C5s or C5s with catback exhaust only, on runflats have you even heard of running 12.4s????

"Torque management" may or may not have something thing to do with it.

But this much we do know. Runflats, (as are 2.73 gears for that matter), are not conducive to best drag racing results.

 

I have been to the track 3 times in the last month and I have not seen a stock C6 break into the 12's yet
Track is at 50 feet from sea level and the temps have been in the low 70's.
Is there some wishful thinking or slight bend in reality here

 

Possibly the drivers stink where you are going! My car has only been on a 1/8 mile track but it has run a 8.25 at 87 on a 1.95 60' in 95 degree heat. My car has had the torque management removed and the timing tables were changed so that when timing is pulled it will add it back more quickly. I do not actually consider it a tune. It actually made 5 more hp after the changes but that could have been a lot of things. The way my car pulls in 4th I am telling you my car will run well into the 12's and after tomorrow I will have the slips to prove it.

If jschindler will look at his 1/8 mile times on his best pass, we could reasonably figure from his pass that my 8.25 pass would have been well in to the 12's in 95 degree heat as our 60' were very similar.

 

Have you gone up to them and asked them what there drag racing experience is? Experience cannot be overlooked.

By the way, I think it's worth pointing out that I also had two C5's that I ran at the dragstrip several times. They both had minor mods, and dynod at 317 rwhp. Both six speeds. They had Michelin tires, but the 60' times were no better than that of my C6 that I ran at the track.

I almost never ran worse than 12.9's in those cars. One night in the '01 coupe, I made three runs in the high 12.6's at 111+mph. In the convertible I had, I ran a best of 12.8 at 112.5. If I can do that with 317 rwhp, why does everyone seem to doubt that in the hands of decent drivers a C6 with 345+ rwhp is going to run mid 12's or better at 115 or so? I still think it comes down to the fact that there are not many serious drag racers in C6 coupes/verts yet.