vette'vert

It was a very fun day - I only regret I can't race my 'vert.

V.

bunk22

Hey, I resemble that remark!!! A fellow squadron mate and now Z06 owner is running the local 1/8th with me. Last time out, my C6 beat his 03 Z06 due to driver error. I ran another 8.7@86 vs his 9.0@87. He just ran an 8.5@90 the other night with drag radials. Unfortunetly I didn't get to go. My car originally hit 8.9's@82 with a cat-back and intake. After my tune, it has run consistant 8.7's@86. The car always ran hot though so I recently swapped the thermostat to a 160, fans come on sooner and I will see shortly if it makes a difference. I think it will but I don't think I will out run my buddies stock 03 Z06, with or without DR's (he also weighs 150 to my 215). We will swap cars and see if driver has anything to do with it but using me as a driver doesn't help much.

laron

EB2003... There is a problem with your above post..

You said that if DR Ron or Ranger drove the C6's you would see better results than the typical mid to high 12 that normal people run...

The problem is that if the C6 was normally running 12.4-12.9 we wouldnt be having this conversation.....

Those arent what NORMAL people are running...The suppossedly NORMAL people are running 12.9-13.3 or better put roughly 3 tenths better than the C5's normal 13.2-13.6....

The differance between Ranger get an incredible time out of the Z06 and the C6 is simple...

The Z06 is a machine that has trapped 117 mph on several different ocassions BONE STOCK....That is an incredible number...It has been verified by road and track and also by people on this board.

Even its typical 113-115 is extremely impressive...

The C6 traps 108-111 with a few claiming 114 mph...

Just compare the extreme high of 114 for the C6 vrs the extreme low of the Z06's 113....Even with the quickest stock C6 against one of the slowest stock Z06's it's still a drivers race....The Z06 will run a 12.7 and the C6 will run a 12.5

Now compare the Z06's extreme high of 117 vrs the C6's extreme low of 108.....One can run 12.3...The others gonna run 13.2

It's MUCH easier to get a low 12 out of a car that trapps low to mid teens, than a car that traps around 110.


HONESTLY.....A GOOD RACE FOR A C6 IS A 2001 Z06 OR COBRA....

NOT the 2004 Z06. It's not fair...

Also..GM isnt stupid.. They made the numbers look real close between the C6 and Z06..

If you had read 12.9 at 111 for the C6 vrs 12.4 at 116 for the Z06 a lot of people would have went and got a Z06....

And as for the magazine testing....Did you notice that when the C6 was first being tested it was pulling 12.6's at 113 in all the mags....

But then when the actual production models came out you saw a change....Now the mags were all posting around 12.8-13.2 at 109-111 mph...

Why the change in performance?

Because the pre production models didnt have the TM cranked up...

The most recent one that comes to memory was the 1 mile run of the C6, supercharded 05 stang,Viper and GT...And a few others

The C6 was eighter the slowest or the second slowest of the group and only pulled a 13.1 in the 1/4 mile and around 150 mph for the mile.

These are professionals and they got the same results that nearly everyone gets....13.1 at 109.....If it had been a C5 they would have gotten 13.2-13.4 at 107-108 mph .....

IF it had been the 04 Z06 they would have been around 12.6 at 114..

You see we all have to go by the average.....If we didnt then we'd all beleave that Z06's run high 11's...

We'd all beleave that C5's run high 12's and that all C6's run mid 12's...

Get the same average driver to go to a prepped track with a C5...A C5 Z06... And a C6...

The Z06 will pull a mid to high 12

The C6 will pull a high 12 to low 13

The C5 will pull a low to mid 13

Yea Im sure with a magical driver on a mystiful day at a track that was built buy NASA that they can all be a 1/2 second quicker...

But thats just not living in reality guys.....Most of you arent gonna hit 12's stock....Just like Most C5's arent gonna do better than 13.3 stock...

The differance there is that all the mags posted 13.2-13.4 at 107-109 mph for the C5 and low and behold most people acheived similar numbers...

With the C6 the mags posted 12.6 at 113 mph and then most people are posting 13.0 at 109

It's proven to be a solid 4 mph and 4 tenths slower than what the mags said on average.....AND I KNOW IT'S BECAUSE OF THE TM....

WHEN PEOPLE DELETE THE TM AND GO BACK TO THE TRACK AND SUDDENLY RUN 2-4 TENTHS QUICKER IT'S SO OBVIOUS...

You guys are the first year buyers...Theres gonna be bugs.....The TM and weak rear are the major bugs for the C6..

And do you know how pissed I would be if a bought a 05 a4 like I was thinking about and then the very next year they have the 6 speed a4 with paddle shift come out?

But those are the prices you pat when you buy the first model year.

kbreese

lol, thats one hell of a post. I thought it was never going to end.

SHOOTER 49

This thread and others just won't go away. OK THE C5 z06 is faster then the C6. We acknowledge that and a lot of us don't care. We didn't want a style from 97, a rougher ride, and a fixed roof. In fact some of us even wish to break the ''cardinal'' rule and leave the car in DRIVE. If it makes you feel good to beat up the new then knock yourselves out. Some youngster in an 87 5.0 or a modded Evo will knock you down anyway. My POS C6 turned a 12.7 at 110 and because the z's trap at 117 in the low 12's is not a real bummer to me. I don't race on the street or usually on the strip and my ego is not attached to my timeslip. All I know is when I disable the AH/TC I am very happy with the performance of my car---espescially considering it is an A4.

In conclusion, I would wonder how many people bought a C6 because they thought it would lay a ''whuppin' ''on a Z. I would suspect that most wanted a ride that was more refined and had features not available on the Z06---BUT WOULD RUN CLOSE TO IT.

Remember each buyer of a C6 could have spent LESS for a leftover Z06 and we chose not to do so. WE JUST DON'T CARE. AND NOW YOU GUYS CAN START BADMOUTHING THE 06 Z06 AS TO NOT LIVING UP TO WHAT YOU WOULD IMAGINE IT SHOULD DO.

'06 Quicksilver Z06

There is an even bigger problem with your post Laron. I think you are lumping all C6s into the same category. You don't know your C6s. The C6 comes in a few different varieties.

Base suspension or F55 A4 with 2.73 gears,

Base suspension or F55 A4 with 3.15 gears,

A4 Z51 with 3.15 gears,

Base suspension A6

F55 A6

Z51 A6

Base MN6

F55 MN6

Z51 MN6.

You are apparently getting quarter mile results from all of the varieties of C6 Corvettes and lumping them together.

However, it is the Z51 MN6 C6 which Dave Hill stated would be very close to the performance of the stock C5 Z06. Indeed 3 people right here managed to prove that by running 12.4. And before you bring up 11 second Z06s I would point out that those are the rare exception.
Most bone stock C5 Z06s don't run 11s. Or even low 12s.

The top 5 quickest bone stock or stock with catback times reported on this board were done by MN6 Z51 C6s. It is my belief that it is here, and here alone, that any comparison between the C5 Z06 and the C6 should be made.

The MN6 C6 Z51 cars are not only similarly powered, but similarly geared, to the C5 Z06. Indeed the first 4 gears are identical to the C5 Z06. The other C6s are not.

The other problem is that as mentioned before, the most respected drag racers in this forum have yet to post any times in the MN6 Z51 C6. The times for the C6 you see posted.........come from people you probably never heard of.

The best times in the Z06 are reported from people who are virtual celebrities in the drag racing section of this board. Those guys have mad skills and are regulars in the drag racing section.

The people at the top of the C6 list are probably people you never even heard of. But what is even more telling, the people running 13s in the C6.........you never even heard of either. You don't see them in the drag racing section, and they have typically not established a reputation among the other drag racers of this forum in a prior car either.

Not to take anything away from them, but I doubt that any of the people at the top of the Z51 MN6 list would tell you that they could drive with J Rod, Ranger, Evan Smith, and a lot of those other names on the 11 second Z06 list. A lot of the times on that list came as a result of 5000 RPM and up launches, and driving methods that some would consider bordering on abuse. At least one on that list, Dr. Ron, has gone through a differential and transmission.

There is not a C6 on this list that has been run as hard as some of the Zs on that quickest Z06 list.

Finally, not every Z06 owner is able to get 12s out of his car. I have seen a few run 13s.

Dave Hill said that the MN6 Z51 C6 would do 0-60 in 4.1 seconds and run the quarter in 12.5 seconds at 114 MPH (Corvette Quarterly)
Motor Trend and C&D got 12.7 at 113 and 0-60 in 4.3 seconds. Now we have 4 people right here who have beaten that, running 12.4.

The MN6 Z51 C6 and the C5 Z06 ........ Equal drivers with equal tires and I do believe its a driver's race. As for torque management. Some say it plays a role others do not, but of the quickest stock C6s none of the top three had "Torque Management" removed.

laron

Im a guy who dosent own eighter car...But I could easily go buy one or the other right now....

Actually my wife wants me to sell the C5 and eighter get a C6 Z06 or a Viper SRT10....

The point is that Im not biased to eighter car.....But you are.. Weather you think so or not...

I dont have to talk about tire sizes or TM or track prep or DA or wich C6 model it is or anything...

The Z06's performance speaks for it's self..

You said that at your personal track you know of stock Z06's running 12.3 and 12.4 in the 1/4...

In KNOW youve seen stock C6's run at the same track or even ran your own if you have one.

What was the best stock time a C6 put up? What did yours run at the track were stock Z06's run low 12's?

If your telling me that there are stock Z06's running 12.3 at your track then I beleave the average one at your track is around 12.6....

Even if you can post a time for the quickest C6 at your track of 12.8...

It would still be loosing to the average Z06 by 2 tenths and getting murdered by a half second against the fastest ones.

THERES JUST NONTHING HARD TO UNDERSTAND ABOUT THAT...

So there it is...

NO EXCUSES...

Yoiu said the quickest stock Z06 at your track went 12.3...

What did the quickest stock C6 run that you know of?

What did your car run?

At my track the quickest stock Z went 12.7 at 111-112

My car went 13.5 at 103

Thats a butt woopin by 8 tenths and 8 mph.....

How bad was your butt woopin to the 12.3 syock Z at your track...

Id guess it's similar to mine since the stock C6's at my track ran similar times as me stock...

299 rwhp and 309 rwt is impressive for a stock 2.73 C5...So I have somewhat of an advantage unless your C6 is also 10 rwhp above average for it's model...

'06 Quicksilver Z06

Not true. Some of my best friends own C5 Z06s.

You have been talking about Torque management since you got here. And of course the Z06s performance speaks for itself. As does the performance of the C6. There are several people on this board who have run what GM and what the magazines said the car should run.

The best time I have seen for a bone stock C5 Z06 at my track was 12.3x. . I have 3 friends with Z06s.

The one has long tube headers, Hurst short throw shifter, K&N 2 headed breather, BFG 17in DRs. I describe here http://forums.corvetteforum.com/show...m_id=90&arch=1

The other is a MY '03, bone stock I have seen run a best of 12.3X bone stock and a 12.59 on the brakes in a bracket race. I am guessing that would have been 12.4x if he had not hit the brakes. Street tires.

Both these guys are my club members.

The third is a guy I have seen on occasion at my local track. '02 LGs headers, Vararam, HP Tuners, 380RWHP. Was running 13.2 13.4 when I first met him late summer last year and he was bone stock. This was during the time I was running mid 12s in my C5 coupe.

He later emailed me and reported a best of 12.3X at the close of last season after the headers and Vararam. Saw him at the track again after a long time, weekend before last. He was running 12.9s -13s. Hasn't seen 12.3 since that time back last year. Must have been a fluke. Runs street tires and just bought my old drag radials this week.

Then there is another I have some familiarity with. I describe here http://forums.corvetteforum.com/show...m_id=90&arch=1

'03 Z06 Stainless Works LTH, and a few other bolt on goodies. 17 inch drag radials mounted on C4 Grand Sport wheels. I later saw him running 12.6s at my local track about a month after that fiasco I described in that post.

I have seen 3 C6s at the track. My own, another A4 which ran 12.9 and a Lingenfelter 427. I have taken a manual transmissioned car down a quarter mile track 4 times in my life. 2 runs were aborted either due to severe wheel hop or a missed gear. My completed runs are 13.6.

And just how do you conclude this? My friend with the MY '03 has been racing for over 30 years and his is the only truly bone stock Z06 I know of in my area, that also sees the track. He'll tell you himself he did it (ran 12.3x) on a cool day and under optimum conditions.

Thats something else you are going to have to get out of your head. Truly bone stock Z06s at the drag strip...... are every bit as rare as Bone Stock SVT Cobras at the drag strip.


In fact one of the retorts that C5 Z06 owners sometimes use when a C5 owner brags that he can "mod" his car to outrun a stock Z06 is "good luck find a bone stock Z06 to run it against."

Everything is hard to understand about it. Your logic is flawed. The average Z06 in my area probably does not run 12.6.

No, I told you the quickest I have seen my friend in the MY '03 run was 12.3. He graduated high school in 1970....and has been drag racing ever since. Manuals and automatics. Drives an 18 wheeler for a living. He has owned this Z for over a year, gotten used to it and can drive better than most.

As I said before, I have only seen 2 bone stock C6s run at my track. Mine, piloted by a driver with no prior experience behind the wheel of an MN6, and an A4 which ran 12.9. The other was the Lingenfelter.

I ran 13.6.. My car dynos at 340 RWHP/338RWTQ. You tell me, was it the car or the driver that was most responsible for the 13.6?
Never mind, don't answer that. Seriously, don't answer that. You are liable to say it was the car.

If I still had the luxury of just mashing the gas pedal as you do, I am sure that I would have done better. But since I am not just interested in drag racing, I wanted a stick. And have no regrets. And am willing to learn to drive it down a drag strip. I love a challenge.

Actually, I didn't race my buddy. He had just run a 12.56 or a 12.59 I don't recall, in his Z. I let him make a pass in my car to see what he could do with it. As I was showing him how to "operate" it, he marveled at my shifter, saying that it was a lot more precise than his, and he even liked the feel of the clutch. He did a monster burnout on my Z51 tires, laid down a 2.4x 60ft time and ran 13.x himself. He confessed to hitting the rev limiter on the 3-4 shift, and had run the car with everything off spinning all the way through first gear. This was his first and only time behind the wheel of my car or any other C6 for that matter. He marveled at the low end torque the car had. His remark: "The power is definitely there, you are just going to have to learn how to launch it and drive it. The launch with it is very tricky and it spun all they way through 1st and didn't hook till second."

See above.

kbreese

And he also slept at a Holiday Inn Express last night...

...and also just save da bunch of money by switching his car insurance to Geico!

zippin zee

The C6 is what pushed me over the edge after 25 years of not owning a Vette. The Z06's almost did it but the C6 gets the cigar. Do I care if the Z06 is faster than my C6? Nope sure don't it should be. The Z06 is an engine and suspension package car. The Z51 is a suspension package on the base corvette. We are talking apples and oranges here. The problem here is that they are very refined, well rounded, comfortable and damn near as fast as a Z06.

kbreese

You C6 advocates do realize that a Z06 is also very refined & comfortable for a world class sports car right? When I am driving around easy, I feel like I am driving a lexus. Maybe the C6 is a tad softer on bumps. Big deal. These are sports cars not luxury cars and the main point is performance. If you don't care about performance and only care about luxury than buy a big fat caddy.

'06 Quicksilver Z06

Couldn't agree with you more. But many are willing to sacrifice a little performance for comfort/luxury features.

You gave up the ability to take the top down, a passenger power seat, heated seats, and a few more comfort items, and the convenience of run flat tires. The MN6 Z51 owner gave up some performance, especially as far as the tires go. Everything is a trade off.

jschindler

Hey EB20003. We are putting up a good fight, but some people just aren't going to agree with us. You are exactly right about guys like J-Rod (who I have met several times and seen at the drag strip). To say he abuses the car to get those numbers would be an understatement - even he admits that his clutches don't lead a long, happy life.

Also, some folks don't understand that stock does not always mean "stock". Let us not forget that even drag radials that are street legal qualify as stock. And most of the guys who race on a regular basis and run the rare 11's are setting their cars up very carefully for the track. When I ran my C6 - is was exactly as it came from the factory. And I can assure anyone that if I spent another hour at the track, and was willing to ride the clutch out at 5,000 rpm, I could have knocked at least another tenth or two off my time that night. I was actually hooking up quite well.

But the thing that some are ignoring, is that there have now been several people who have posted on the forum that they have "raced" Z06 from a roll, and have easily stayed with them. This takes away the difference in drag racing skills, as most of them have not been from a dead stop. Some of the people who posted this were doubters themselves until they hooked up with the Z06's - then they became believers that the cars really are equal.

Anyone who wants to bring a stock Z06 to Houston, I'll gladly run even my F55 convertible against them on a variety of roll-ons. Lunch is on me, win or lose!

'06 Quicksilver Z06

A few things are amazing here for me. Eye opening.

Number one, how a guy thinks that 12.4 -12.6 is the norm or the "average" for a C5 Z06 and that running such a time is as easy as getting behind the wheel of the car.

Not to step on any toes here but this type of reasoning typically comes from people who drive automatics. I can't talk though, as I thought it was easy too.

In http://forums.corvetteforum.com/show...3&page=6&pp=20

Dr Ron had this to say: "I know I am NOT seeking ANY recognition. Rob just meant that a driver w/ a lot of experience/practice at the track can get these cars to go very quick. Hell, my 1st time to the track in my Z I went a best of 13.0!!!"

Did you hear that..........he said a BEST of 13.0 his first time at the track. That means he had some times which were worse.

Thats coming from Dr. Ron. One of the quickest Z06 drivers on this board. The truth is that it takes some prowess even to get 12.6 of out of a C5 Z06.

Secondly, a lot of folks either don't know or don't care how hard you would have to beat on virtually any stock mass produced car to get an 11 second time slip out of it. High RPM launches, power shifting, monster burnouts, etc.

Dr. Ron has also been through at least one transmission and rear end as I recall. I remember when he posted that he had broken following a dead hook Dr Ron is on the quickest C5 Z06 list for 1.68x 60' time ET of 11.62x @ 119.03 10/04 with just a CAI/DR ('03)

Finally, in the same thread I pointed to above, one guy , Steve Row, gives a litany of parts he has broken in his own Z06:

"The thing about Ranger that I find just incredible, is the very few problems he has had with his car compared to me. GM put in a clutch in his car because the pedal was sticking to the floor. He just had another put in as a precautionary measure. Remember, it's his daily driver. We both have about the same mileage, around 25,000. Here is the list of broken parts on my car. One rebuilt transmission, one brand new transmission, one new rear end, and three clutches.".

After 25,000 miles. 2 transmissions, a rear end, and 3 clutches. That will leave a good sized hole in your wallet real fast. And Laron wants to tell us that our cars have weak drivetrains??? Our gears are shot peened in the '05 C6 just as in the C5 Z06.

BTW Steve Row is on the quickest C5 Z06 list for a 1.66x 60' time an ET of 11.756 @ 116.87mph with a CAI and Drag Radials.

My point.........yeah these guys are in the 11s. But they have been through a few parts on the way there.

Tommy D

STOCK RUBBER CLASS

Bone stock
DrRichie, Z51 .... 12.42 @ 113.9
Jschindler, Z51 .... 12.49 @ 114.9
Orange C6, Z51/auto .... 12.5 @ 112
Zippen Zee, Z51 .... 12.65 @ 111.65
Tommy D, Auto/3:15 .... 12.83 @109.44
Ginny C6, Auto/F55 .... 12.97 @
Tampa Vet, Auto/3:15 .... 12.98 @108
C6 Matt, Z51 ........... 13.25 @110.6

Cai & cat back
FLC6, Auto/3:15 .... 12.55@

Cat Back
WS6JJP, Z51 .... 12.41 @ 112.07
FLC6, Auto/3:15 .... 12.7@
Thanos, Z51/auto .... 12.8 @
Parkev. Z51....... 12.99 @ 111.25

Headers & cat back
CTVette05, auto/3:15 .... 12.37 @ 112.29

Headers, cat back, Cai &Tune
SScamero, Z51 .... 12.7 @ 112.29
1955 Belair, Z51/auto ....12.938 @ 108.60

So who else went to the track?

Tommy D

On both time slips Relative Humidity is 0

Tommy D

Very nice times

zippin zee

No one here is running the Z06 down, it's just that most of us here prefer the C6. It's the Z06 guys that always show up here to run the C6 down and compare it to the Z06. Is it because there is no comparing the C5 Z06 with the C6 Z06? If the main point is performance you might want to compare the C5 Z06 with the C6 Z06.
That would be apples to apples.

kbreese

Let us not forget the pricelessness of owning a "Z06"...One of the best American sports cars world has ever known. Not JUST another corvette

'06 Quicksilver Z06

Definitely. A Z06 is still a Z06 no matter how old it is. The original Z06s from the 60s, the RPO Z06 package first offered on ’63 models is quite collectable now.

Chevy made 199 Z06s during the 60s. Of those 199, many likely were used for play versus strictly racing as only 124 cars were delivered without radios and just 63 with the 36-gallon fuel tank - though the tank was a benefit only to long races.

I am quite sure that 43 years from now, the '01-'04 Z06 will be every bit as collectable as those early cars are now.