I have Trick Flow Heads 225 with a baby 224/228 cam with 410 gears
The car just does not seem to have the torque it should so my question to you guys is change the heads to TF 215 or change the cam to a larger one?
Car dynos at 455 rwhp but the car lags at low rpm's and climbs through gears
Trick flow states its a perfect combo need input on your thoughts
Thanks Bill

 

What was the tq on the dyno?

 

Too much flow without enough cam. Kills low/mid range torque.

 

Could be the tune, also. That should be a good torque combination.

 

Please give us a little more information. 475 rwhp is big time to me. I have the 224/228 on my L92/L76. I'm quite sure I made at least 40 rwhp on the cam alone and 20 rwhp on a totally stock L92 head. 440/405 was all I could get....with all bolt on's. I need to take it to the track....and get the real numbers.

 

455rwhp and here are the numbers

 

The advance or timing of the intake valve opening can greatly effect the low rpm performance of a motor. Do you know what advance is ground into the cam?

 

Hey Bill...thanks for the referral the other day

I think "our" good friend is on to something, but there might be another route without the expense of changing the cam. You could pull your heads, sell them, and buy the L92/L76 setup like I have. In the end,the money would probably be a wash, the swap could be done in a day, and the performance would probably be just what you are looking for. I'm at 461/420 with a torque curve that is amazing, I'll take you for a ride to show you.

 

Lags at low end?

If you want low to mid range you need smaller intake runners for higher air velocity.

The TF215s is a very good head but a smaller cam, 224/228 581/581 ( or 588/588) XeR on a 112+2 this will bring the power band down into the low to mid range. You wont have as much peek HP, but who cares, you be quicker off the line or for roll racing.

Plus you want a smaller combustion chamber to raise the compression. 59 or 60cc chamber

your current cam is for 4000 rpms and above especially with the 114 lsa

a 4.10 is too small for low end torque, and is for narrow power bands. But works great with what you have. Higher RPM use.

Good Luck

 

What size header primary tube do you have? This can make a big difference in low-end.

 

I could use your inputs thanks

 

Craig we are so close on the numbers if you look at my dyno
Maybe a larger cam would set this thing off??
what do you think??
no problem on the referal

 

what is that anyway.........told you I was a dummy

 

Forget the number...it's the torque curve and where the power is. I dont mean this to be an insult, but with my setup, I'll walk away from you easily, even with the peak #s being close.

 

The two problems with your build may be:

1- The cam is a lazy lobe 224 not an aggressive XER or XFI grind.

2-The heads were not milled for optimum compression. They were bolted onto the car box stock as they come from TR. I will also bet that cheap azz stock gaskets were used and not a thinner after market choice which would have helped a lot down low. If you have cheap GM stock head bolts this is likely the case with gaskets.

I drove the car when it had stock 3.42 gears and it couldnt break 1st gear lose on Z06 runflats the same week I was in Hoffie's car with the exact same tires and 325rwhp and it broke 2nd loose effortlessly. I dont think your car was 460rwhp when I drove it.

The tune was locked.

I would want to see an independent dyno (dynojet) of the current power. I think it will clear things up. The car I drove did not have 400rwtq at 4k. Lizzard racing is in Farmingdale with a dynojet as is Vetttech in great neck.

The cam I suggested and the compression for it will land you at 475-480rwhp and 440rwtq. The TQ at 3k will rise 30rwtq and better believe you will feel 10% more at that rpm.

 

This is what I am looking for input no insults taken at all > I I may have to go back and see if I can get what I want from where it was done in the first time.

 

If we are saying that vette doctors dyno is not correct. Why after a common friend of ours went there and compared his dynos from a competitor his numbers at vette doctors were actually less.
Craig I know we would have to race to set it straight but these dyno sheets are pretty darn close on torque numbers.
I never said I would walk away from you only said the dyno sheets were close.
I asked you a question that would a larger cam help? I do not see that answer?
Not sure why your car came into a walk away.......

 

I noticed you have different scales for the HP and Torque. It appears to me that your torque curve is very similar or actually slightly under the OP's. If you pick out the numbers at say 3,500; 5000; and 6500:

3500: yours: 350, OP's: 375

5000: yours: 410, OP's: 415

6500: yours: 355, OP's: 360

What makes yours look flatter is just the scaling. Personally I'd take the OP's torque curve, it's equal to or higher across the board.

 

You kind of missed the point....Craigs car spins the tires in 3 gears. What I'm saying is Bill's car does not move like a 460rwhp car. I thought hoffies car at 425rwhp was way stronger.

I never posted a dyno sheet of any of my builds but the results on Craig's car are confirmed when you drive it. If you drove Bill's car, you wouldnt think it had a 2500 dollar set of heads (plus the 400 for the rocker arms to use them). While I dont think the L92's are the be-all, they are cheap. Complete with valves and springs they were about 875 bucks for the pair with a 228 cam, not 3k for a trick flow set of heads. If the cost was set aside, the trick flow heads are far beyond the L92's in performance and you dont need to flycut.

Maybe Bill should jujst drive Craig's car and then he will know for himself what 460rwhp feels like.

A last note: Craigs numbers were throught 4.10 gears and Bill's dyno sheet was through 3.42's. The 4.10's were added after the complaints about the power level were relayed to the tuner. 4.10 gears and same dyno would take the usual 10-12 off the peak HP and 8-10 off the TQ making it 443hp and 407rwtq? Maybe thats the issue

In the tuner's defense Bill asked for a mild set-up, so telling the tuner there isnt enough power coupled with having asked for a cam with certain driving manners isnt so fair either. That tuner has built sick cars and has 2 of the most crafted mechanics (GMcertified too) that there are. They can definitely build a fast car. Ithink these after the fact comments are clashing with the initial requests made of them.

Please do not think i am comparing any results from my builds to this one. It was craig who posted a dyno for his car and not me posting them for any of my builds. Mine has higher number results through 4.10's with the same cam and heads but I'm not posting it because like the last time i tried to help with this exact same car, it became a Spin hate post. Bill asked me for my opinion and got it. Any other correspondence on this topic will be ignored by me because of the nasty grams I'm getting.

 

Spin I do not think anyone is bashing anyone its just opinions
As you stated above a few post ago if they just through the heads on and did not mill them its wrong and I sure did not ask for that. I asked for a heads with a mild cam not any particular size one other then Trick flow heads and a comp cam. They should be able to put the two together with out me telling anyone what to do. I am only looking to get some more out of this as you said an "expensive package." If the Cam is not compatable to the heads or the heads are not milled I am sure I did not request that as well.