New Header Discussion
Former Vendor
Joined: Sep 2007
Posts: 5,511
Likes: 22
From: Southern MD
Well my thing is..if there is nothing to hide..and everything is on the up and up...why not post who makes them and a warranty?
Yes I have heard of them as well.
I'm really trying to have people state factual information. If those headers are build by these companies, and it is a 100% fact (not an assumption), than so be it. Now we'll have to establish the quality of these said headers with FACTs and not assumption.
I mean, we did have 7 pages of it going on and there wasn't but 2 actual facts:
1) they fit fine
2) they seems to hold up based on the fact that a member had them on his C5 (and now his C6) and has no issues
I'm waiting for the rest of the facts, such as:
1) quality of the stainless grade used (via actual testing)
2) thickness used
3) performance comparison (or even a dyno pull post using those headers)
those last 3 have not yet been established, and anyone talking about "quality" and "performance" is talking out of their behind, unless they can post/prove those 3 facts
I'm really trying to have people state factual information. If those headers are build by these companies, and it is a 100% fact (not an assumption), than so be it. Now we'll have to establish the quality of these said headers with FACTs and not assumption.
I mean, we did have 7 pages of it going on and there wasn't but 2 actual facts:
1) they fit fine
2) they seems to hold up based on the fact that a member had them on his C5 (and now his C6) and has no issues
I'm waiting for the rest of the facts, such as:
1) quality of the stainless grade used (via actual testing)
2) thickness used
3) performance comparison (or even a dyno pull post using those headers)
those last 3 have not yet been established, and anyone talking about "quality" and "performance" is talking out of their behind, unless they can post/prove those 3 facts
Former Vendor
Joined: Sep 2007
Posts: 5,511
Likes: 22
From: Southern MD
What frustrates me..is the prices people pay here for other things..and they do it without a second thought. Some trinket may cost $100...but really cost $10 to make. No one whines about that. However everyone makes like Kooks is taking the Vette community for a ride by charging insane prices...when the reality is they charge the same prices for their G8 and Charger systems or whatever. It's a premium product and costs premium dollars. Just like Nikes or a Rolex watches.
Team Owner
Joined: Feb 2001
Posts: 27,254
Likes: 136
From: Short Hills, NJ
Well first off, everyone throws around that $1600 number..which is about MAP (minimum advertised price) on a set of Kooks with cats. The knockoff's which run $400 or whatever do not have cats. MAP on a set of Kooks with Off Road X-pipe is 1,421.46. That being said, if you call around, you can get an even better deal on a set of Kooks than that.
But I do want to point out that while it is likely that these replicas are made in China, that has not been proven yet. There is even talk (though I do doubt it) that they're actually manufactured in Texas...and it doesn't get much more American than Texas.
And finally, I sure do hope that all of you out there waving the buy American flag (as I also tend to do with my buy GM/Ford/Chrysler only stance
) and preaching about keeping as much manufacturing cashflow in the U.S. didn't also buy a Japanese built Toyota/Honda/Nissan or a German built BMW/Mercedes for your wife or as a daily driver because, well, that would then be just a wee bit hypocritical in my opinion. Yes it's not exactly the same discussion but it's close enough...especially when you're talking about a mere $400.00-$1700.00 set of headers versus a $40k - $70k+ imported vehicle.
Former Vendor
Joined: Sep 2007
Posts: 5,511
Likes: 22
From: Southern MD
I have heard that line before...every time these knock off headers show up...they claim they are made in Texas or Georgia or wherever. But then they when you ask who makes them..no one can say..it's top secret. Also..whenever there is an issue with how a run of headers fit..they take 4-6 weeks to fix. That being the case..I won't beleive it till I see pictures of an american worker in an american factory making them.
This is true, the replica headers also do not come with O2 extentions which is another roughly $100.00+ in favor of other header systems that do come with them.
But I do want to point out that while it is likely that these replicas are made in China, that has not been proven yet. There is even talk (though I do doubt it) that they're actually manufactured in Texas...and it doesn't get much more American than Texas.
And finally, I sure do hope that all of you out there waving the buy American flag (as I also tend to do with my buy GM/Ford/Chrysler only stance) and preaching about keeping as much manufacturing cashflow in the U.S. didn't also buy a Japanese built Toyota/Honda/Nissan or a German built BMW/Mercedes for your wife or as a daily driver because, well, that would then be just a wee bit hypocritical in my opinion. Yes it's not exactly the same discussion but it's close enough...especially when you're talking about a mere $400.00-$1700.00 set of headers versus a $40k - $70k+ imported vehicle.
But I do want to point out that while it is likely that these replicas are made in China, that has not been proven yet. There is even talk (though I do doubt it) that they're actually manufactured in Texas...and it doesn't get much more American than Texas.
And finally, I sure do hope that all of you out there waving the buy American flag (as I also tend to do with my buy GM/Ford/Chrysler only stance
) and preaching about keeping as much manufacturing cashflow in the U.S. didn't also buy a Japanese built Toyota/Honda/Nissan or a German built BMW/Mercedes for your wife or as a daily driver because, well, that would then be just a wee bit hypocritical in my opinion. Yes it's not exactly the same discussion but it's close enough...especially when you're talking about a mere $400.00-$1700.00 set of headers versus a $40k - $70k+ imported vehicle. Last edited by MarylandSpeed; Feb 25, 2009 at 03:44 PM.
Drifting
Joined: Jul 2003
Posts: 1,796
Likes: 1
From: Annandale VA
Yes I have heard of them as well.
I'm really trying to have people state factual information. If those headers are build by these companies, and it is a 100% fact (not an assumption), than so be it. Now we'll have to establish the quality of these said headers with FACTs and not assumption.
I mean, we did have 7 pages of it going on and there wasn't but 2 actual facts:
1) they fit fine
2) they seems to hold up based on the fact that a member had them on his C5 (and now his C6) and has no issues
I'm waiting for the rest of the facts, such as:
1) quality of the stainless grade used (via actual testing)
2) thickness used
3) performance comparison (or even a dyno pull post using those headers)
those last 3 have not yet been established, and anyone talking about "quality" and "performance" is talking out of their behind, unless they can post/prove those 3 facts
I'm really trying to have people state factual information. If those headers are build by these companies, and it is a 100% fact (not an assumption), than so be it. Now we'll have to establish the quality of these said headers with FACTs and not assumption.
I mean, we did have 7 pages of it going on and there wasn't but 2 actual facts:
1) they fit fine
2) they seems to hold up based on the fact that a member had them on his C5 (and now his C6) and has no issues
I'm waiting for the rest of the facts, such as:
1) quality of the stainless grade used (via actual testing)
2) thickness used
3) performance comparison (or even a dyno pull post using those headers)
those last 3 have not yet been established, and anyone talking about "quality" and "performance" is talking out of their behind, unless they can post/prove those 3 facts
I have been on this forum too long to remember, and I must have read several hundred pages of opinions, comments, and FACTS about the various header manufacturers and the relative merits of their products.
They're ALL pretty good products (ARH, LG, Kooks, Melrose, etc). Do a search and you can find more FACTS than you can handle!
Burning Brakes
Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 763
Likes: 0
Well, i can see what maryland speed is saying, but i do understand the op too. And the profit on a set of headers is enormous. R&d has been covered now for how long? There is nothing magical about kooks or anyone else's headers that they should cost what they cost. 1400-1600 for headers is ridiculous. jeez i wonder how you can get a free $200 coating when you spend that... Yes sarcasm.
Former Vendor
Joined: Sep 2007
Posts: 5,511
Likes: 22
From: Southern MD
I think I recognize who is talking out of their behind. I don't understand why anybody is required to "prove"anything to anybody.
I have been on this forum too long to remember, and I must have read several hundred pages of opinions, comments, and FACTS about the various header manufacturers and the relative merits of their products.
They're ALL pretty good products (ARH, LG, Kooks, Melrose, etc). Do a search and you can find more FACTS than you can handle!
I have been on this forum too long to remember, and I must have read several hundred pages of opinions, comments, and FACTS about the various header manufacturers and the relative merits of their products.
They're ALL pretty good products (ARH, LG, Kooks, Melrose, etc). Do a search and you can find more FACTS than you can handle!
Well, i can see what maryland speed is saying, but i do understand the op too. And the profit on a set of headers is enormous. R&d has been covered now for how long? There is nothing magical about kooks or anyone else's headers that they should cost what they cost. 1400-1600 for headers is ridiculous. jeez i wonder how you can get a free $200 coating when you spend that... Yes sarcasm.
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Safety Car
Joined: Oct 2008
Posts: 4,912
Likes: 266
From: Charleston SC
I think I recognize who is talking out of their behind. I don't understand why anybody is required to "prove"anything to anybody.
I have been on this forum too long to remember, and I must have read several hundred pages of opinions, comments, and FACTS about the various header manufacturers and the relative merits of their products.
They're ALL pretty good products (ARH, LG, Kooks, Melrose, etc). Do a search and you can find more FACTS than you can handle!
I have been on this forum too long to remember, and I must have read several hundred pages of opinions, comments, and FACTS about the various header manufacturers and the relative merits of their products.
They're ALL pretty good products (ARH, LG, Kooks, Melrose, etc). Do a search and you can find more FACTS than you can handle!
You are correct, you are not required to prove anything to anyone, but, when you start claiming something (in this case, tube thickness, stainless quality) I sure would hope that you have more facts than opinions on your side, at least, if you indend to prove pros and cons on a product.
I'm sure you are an educated person, what would your boss say if you came to him and presented some data, and he asked you what kind of back up you had for those and you said "well, nothing really, I'm just saying"...that wouldn't go over to well
This is prety much the same, people get on here, with no facts and are just passing a jugement, they are "just sayin'"...so as long as you are "just sayin" I guess it makes it alright...for most...some of us wants facts which appear to be "sans existance" at this point.
I'm "just sayin'" though
ps: I said you, but not necesseraly you as of you...just in general
Last edited by mirage2991; Feb 25, 2009 at 08:43 PM.
Safety Car
Joined: Oct 2008
Posts: 4,912
Likes: 266
From: Charleston SC
Well..if your insinuating that I am talking out my behind..there is nothing I can do about that. I can tell you that I know where every header I sell is made. I can produce warranties for the parts I sell. If the fact that they are so "OMFG cheap" overrules the fact they are basically a knock of with no brand name, no warranty, and no support....then there is basically nothing I can do.
As for the coating deal..I am just trying to find a way to bring people deals and play within the rules.
As for the coating deal..I am just trying to find a way to bring people deals and play within the rules.
Safety Car
Joined: Oct 2008
Posts: 4,912
Likes: 266
From: Charleston SC
you know, it would take very little effort for one of the big 3 headers provider to buy one cheap set and do some testing of there own (at least to start) and then cut them up and see how they are made. They could show us how "crapy" the no name brand are compared to their high end product...would surely gain them a couple customer maybe, and if not, some serious PR for them...IDK, if I owned one of the 3 big names, I'd be all over that crap just to prove a point and show off my product...
Drifting
Joined: Jul 2003
Posts: 1,796
Likes: 1
From: Annandale VA
Well..if your insinuating that I am talking out my behind..there is nothing I can do about that. I can tell you that I know where every header I sell is made. I can produce warranties for the parts I sell. If the fact that they are so "OMFG cheap" overrules the fact they are basically a knock of with no brand name, no warranty, and no support....then there is basically nothing I can do.
FWIW, I agree with you 100%. I only buy quality products from established, reputable vendors.
Instructor
Joined: Sep 2008
Posts: 190
Likes: 1
From: NJ
Thats an unfortunate attitude you have...Everyone wants to stimulate the economy and help our country right now, and there are manufacturers that make this difficult becasue they price products to high...As I said, I am VERY PRO AMERICAN, but these are the reasons that so many go with non USA made products
Drifting
Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 1,499
Likes: 5
From: Meadville Pennsylvania
Well, i can see what maryland speed is saying, but i do understand the op too. And the profit on a set of headers is enormous. R&d has been covered now for how long? There is nothing magical about kooks or anyone else's headers that they should cost what they cost. 1400-1600 for headers is ridiculous. jeez i wonder how you can get a free $200 coating when you spend that... Yes sarcasm.
Safety Car
Joined: Aug 2006
Posts: 4,206
Likes: 6
From: Makena, Maui & NM
Here is a different take on the high cost of headers. First off, putting headers on is essentially illegal in the USA since it involves removing the oem cats which is a NO-NO in Federal Law. Even by putting on hi-flo cats does nothing to remove this illegality. The point I am making is almost anything you can buy that is illegal...usually carries a high cost like heroin, Streetsweeper shotguns etc.
So just think when you pay your $1500 for Kooks or whatever, that you are paying extra for illegal goods. In fact, I am kinda surprised that they have not already been banned! So hurry and buy them now! Oh, I myself did get my header "fix" from a Maryland "Speed" Dealer named "Bandito Brandon"
So just think when you pay your $1500 for Kooks or whatever, that you are paying extra for illegal goods. In fact, I am kinda surprised that they have not already been banned! So hurry and buy them now! Oh, I myself did get my header "fix" from a Maryland "Speed" Dealer named "Bandito Brandon"
Last edited by siffert; Feb 25, 2009 at 10:38 PM.
Drifting
Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 1,499
Likes: 5
From: Meadville Pennsylvania
Here is a different take on the high cost of headers. First off, putting headers on is essentially illegal in the USA since it involves removing the oem cats which is a NO-NO in Federal Law. Even by putting on hi-flo cats does nothing to remove this illegality. The point I am making is almost anything you can buy that is illegal...usually carries a high cost like heroin, Streetsweeper shotguns etc.
So just think when you pay your $1500 for Kooks or whatever, that you are paying extra for illegal goods. In fact, I am kinda surprised that they have not already been banned! Oh, I myself did get my Kooks "fix" from a Maryland "Speed" Dealer named "Bandito Brandon"
So just think when you pay your $1500 for Kooks or whatever, that you are paying extra for illegal goods. In fact, I am kinda surprised that they have not already been banned! Oh, I myself did get my Kooks "fix" from a Maryland "Speed" Dealer named "Bandito Brandon"
PS
Bump for Maryland Speed...great vendor.
Instructor
Joined: Sep 2008
Posts: 190
Likes: 1
From: NJ
I too delt with Maryland Speed and Brandon. I got my Kooks Headers and mid pipe with hiflo cats from him a year or 2 ago I paid 1600+ but got free coating and free shipping.
We had a misunderstanding (My fault) He gave me his cell phone #
and email address called me asap. fixed it and gave me a discount on a Vararam. You cant beat that with a bat!!! I wish he carried more stuff
Because I would Buy from him in a minute!!! Because my satisfaction is
Guaranteed!!! Thanks again Brandon!! The top Vendor on this site in my opinion.
We had a misunderstanding (My fault) He gave me his cell phone #
and email address called me asap. fixed it and gave me a discount on a Vararam. You cant beat that with a bat!!! I wish he carried more stuff
Because I would Buy from him in a minute!!! Because my satisfaction is
Guaranteed!!! Thanks again Brandon!! The top Vendor on this site in my opinion.
Former Vendor
Joined: Sep 2007
Posts: 5,511
Likes: 22
From: Southern MD
You want to talk Corvette mark up...you can get a whole catback for a GTO from Corsa for less than a Corvette axleback. That is the Corvette tax.
Yet people act like Kooks is stealing money from your kids college fund or something..when their headers cost the same from car to car..and are typically among the cheaper of the high end models if you call around.
I am starting to think...
If you would seriously consider buying a $400 set of headers knock off headers...odds are you were not gonna buy a top end header anyway.
and conversly...
If you were seriously considering buying a set of Kooks...the sudden emergance of $400 ebay knock offs is not gonna cost Kooks a sale.
So..really this all does not matter in the end in terms of Kooks gaining or loosing sale.
But...rest assured...untill these things are legitamatly sold by a real business....they are nothing but the flea market Rolex's of the exhaust world.
Safety Car
Joined: Aug 2006
Posts: 4,206
Likes: 6
From: Makena, Maui & NM
for the MUSIC & TUNES it makes, not for performance. When I got my C6, I said to myself-where is the exhaust noise from that V8? So I went out and bought my Corsa Sports system soon after. Did that Vette then sound good!
It wasnt until a year later that I even thought of buying performance mods.I see performance mods in terms of value per .10 second gained in the
1/4 mile. Headers are around $1700 for about a .25 gain. That is about
$700 per .10. Expensive, not a real good value and why folks complain. CAI's like the Honker or VR can pick you up .20 for $500.00. That's $250 per .10. Much better value. And so on.