Found a good stock dyno pull from an E9x M3. Impressive for what it is, but not a match for a modified C6:
Andy[/QUOTE]

Try and find a Dyno pull from a modified M3 you will be thinking differently... it's not apples to apples with that Dyno sheet...your comparing a stock pull vs a modified C6:

 

You do realize that MacPherson is NOT a manufacturer, but the name of the man who had the idea of combining the coilover´s functions of spring and damper with also carrying lateral as well as linear acceleration / braking forces, which saves some contol arms, but- as you can imagine - leads to compromises considering the diameters of the strut rod, the bearings etc. etc.?

If you think I´m wrong, just ask BMW, the next 5 Series (F10) finally has dropped the MacPherson strut / control arm / tension arm front suspension for a proper double whishbone one!

Best, Bernd

 

my friend took me for a ride in his upgraded gti, he was going through the gears and i told him he should floor it when we get back on the free way, he looks over with a grimace face "i have been flooring it" needless to say he dropped me off and we dont speak anymore... oops

 

Just as Corvettes have had for the last 26 years (and over 13 years in the back as well). Heck even my 10 year old Camaro has a variation on the double wishbone/SLA front suspension.

Once again, I'd just figure that a company that prides itself on such ultra high tech/ultra modern cutting edge technology would leave no stone unturned, especially at some of the prices they're charging. Tiny little two seat Z4 roadsters weighing in at over 3400+ pounds and $51k+, I just don't get it.

 

I never said you were wrong. Actually i do realize that Earle S. MacPherson who developed the design is just the name, there manufactured in China. I haven't driven a new M5 only a 2002 M5 so i really can't comment. They seem to work very well on the M3 considering the way they handle.

 

Not sure I'm following you. I used to own a 2008 M3, am a BMW Tech and I used to spend some time on the M3 forums. The dyno sheet I posted is actually one of the higher stock Dynojet runs listed, most are lower. If I remember right, the best bolt-on cars were still no more than 400 RWHP and 300 RWTQ. A good chunk of cash needs to be spent to get those results as well.

I posted that dyno chart because we were comparing a stock E9X M3 to the OP's modified C6. 325-350 RWHP in a 3600 lb. car is not going to feel as fast as a modified C6. The fastest bolt-on M3s right now are running high 11's @117-119 on drag radials. That is with the advantage of the super quick shifting dual clutch 7-speed transmission.

Here is a link to the dyno database on the M3 forum. A lot of results as you can see, and they are starting to make some big power with the new supercharger systems: http://bmw.pencilgeek.org/DynoDB.html

So yeah, I stand by what I said. A stock or even bolt-on M3 is not a match for a similarily modified C6 in a straight line.

Andy

 

There is a reason why BMW is going to a double wishbone front suspension in their newer models. It has to do with the newly-designed "vertical dynamics" (VDM) system. This is basically a electronically controlled double-adjustable shock system. The compression and rebound are controlled individually on the fly. The system requires very fast data transfer to work properly, so a special bus communication system called "Flexray" was developed by several of the high-end automakers working together.

In order to make the shocks in the VDM system work properly, the strut/shock needs to be subjected to minimal transverse forces and rotational motion. If you know how a strut suspension works, it has an upper mount with a bearing that allows it to rotate as the steering wheel is turned. A double wishbone suspension allows the strut/shock to remain more stationary, which was a change that was needed to adapt said technology.

With that said, I don't think there is anything wrong with the strut-style front suspension. It works VERY well in the M3. The feedback you get through the steering wheel, the ride comfort and overall confidence the car gives during cornering is amazing. I think my Z51 C6 has more overall grip (ie. skidpad G's) than my M3 did, but the M3 just felt so solid. Very easy to know what the tires were doing and to drive fast.


Andy

 

They are heavy. My E46 M3 weighs 3780Lbs without the driver. I refused to believe the specs and bought one anyway. I weighed the car and what a huge disappointment. I've ran the car in the 1/4 mile and for a 3.2 6cyl pushing 3940 lbs i was quite suprised with 13.30 @101 mph. After a few bolt ons (muffler & hi-flow cats, k-n filter, p/s & ac pulley) it ran 12.70 @ 107. mph with everthing else stock. These cars are different, they don't have the torque like the muscle cars, they rev up smoother which makes them seem a lot slower and part of the reason is because there over weight. The new M3 would be sick if it where 3100-3200 lbs.

 

you sure that scale was accurate? The E46 M3 models have always been around 3400 lbs depending on options. I just checked a few road tests to make sure I wasn't crazy, and they were listed between 3394 and 3440 lbs.

The new M3 coupe (E92) weigh 3670-3700 lbs according to Road and Track, C&D, etc. I am 100% sure that the E90/E92 platform is bigger and heavier than the E46. This goes for the standard models and M versions.

I would not mind picking up a low-mileage E46 M3 for a daily driver. It is definitely not as comfortable and refined as the new ones, but I've always loved the sound of that inline-6. Prices are getting very reasonable

Andy

 

The hard tops are 3400 lbs. I have a convertible, there 3750 -3780 lbs. I'm 100% sure because i weighed mine at e-town several times on different days and i could not believe it. It weighed 3760 lbs w/o driver and 3940 lbs with driver. Its a great car but its time to sell the M3 & the vette, i'm looking to purchase some property and the banks are very strict on lending. I'm leaning toward the E92 M3, C7 911 Turbo for my next car in a future. After owning an E46 M3 and test driving the E92 M3 its not easy to walk away from them.

 

Ahhh...... the convertibles are a few hundred pounds heavier. I didn't think they were that heavy, but I guess so.

Don't think you can go wrong with any of the cars you have listed there. I've always wanted a 996 Turbo, I have owned an E90 M3 and currently have an LS3 C6. To me, the C6 is a great hotrod that is very easy to modify and make very fast. That is why I bought mine. I sold the '67 Camaro (blown LS1) in my avatar and wanted another project.

My M3 was my daily car and it was fantastic at that. I think it is more of a car you keep stock and enjoy for what it is, though. If I put a blower on my LS3 and throw a rod through the oil pan it's no big deal. If I were to do the same with a $20K+ BMW S65 V8, I would not be happy.

Andy

 

I agree with you all the way, except for one thing, i might have kept the 67 Camaro. I modified my C6 LS2 and what a rush, 10.57 @ 134.15 mph with the stock short block and nat aspirated. I added a few bolt ons to my M3 and it actually enhance daily driving. Unfortunately for me i need to sell at least one of these cars and its a tough decission. Property is very low with all the short sales and foreclosures and its time to make a move. The banks are very strict now and there requiring 25% down on investment properties on 3rd and 4th mortgages. After owning my Vette & M3 i can't walk away with out buying another later. My plan is to sell my M3 first and keep the Vette, but if the Vette sells first i'll still sale the M3 and pick up the new M3 and a LS7 or C7 in the future.

 

, thanks, that is funny.

 

Believe me, I did not want to sell that Camaro. I probably could have gotten more $$$ for it if I had sold it at a better time, but I can't really argue with what I got for it. I'm young (not quite 30) and by the time I got into my career and making good money, the southern California real estate market was sky-high and out of reach for me.

I did the exact same thing you are talking about. That is the reason I sold my cars. The '67 was my hotrod and the M3 was my regular transportation, which I was just leasing on a steal of a BMW employee lease program that I jumped on. I sold the Camaro, traded off the M3, got the Vette and have a good chunk of cash left over to pick up some property.

It was a big sacrifice, especially for someone who loves his cars as much as I do. Thankfully, I still have my '68 Camaro that is waiting to be put back on the road. I've had it for over 10 years and that is one I will never sell.

Here are a few pics I took of the '67 before I let her go. Hope you like them

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The 67 Camaro is amazing.
I knew it had to be good reason you sold it. After looking at those pics i can amagine how difficult it was part from. Without the 68 Camaro i couldn't of sold it. I'm not any type of real estate typhoon at all, but when i see an opportunity like this i can't hesitate to take advantage of. I've had some good experiences in the pass buying and sell a couple of properties.
Sorry for going off topic guys.

 

Exactly my thoughts. I told myself that I could always build another and that the '68 would be just as nice some day. But just to add a little salt to the wound, when I was hunting down these pictures (on another forum) last night, I found I had an invitation to bring the car to a photo shoot for a magazine feature . I still had the car at the time, but I never saw the offer. Now I'm just pissed off, haha.

But yeah, I just had to do what I had to do. Keep the car or buy a house? I made the responsible decision for once in my life

Sorry guys, this is not about M3s anymore. Not that anybody else besides me and Chaz cared anyway.

Andy

 

Sorry, the most basic traditional definition of a sports car is that it has two seats. I guess you consider the STI and Evo sports cars? M3 is a high performance sedan/coupe.

Nevertheless, it is not valid to compare the M3 to the C6 so I'm not sure why these threads keep popping up. Valid comparison would be Audi R8, Viper, F430 (base model) and 911 Carrera. When the C6 was in development the M3 was not the market they were aiming at.

You're the first person I've heard call the M3 a supercar. If M3 is a supercar, what's a Zonda?

 

I'd agree with that logic, but what it really comes down to is that both are badass cars that are similar in price and performance. I wouldn't say they are direct competitors, but both are a great performance bargain and fantastic cars in my opinon. All the cars you listed are much more expensive.


When I was shopping for a M3 sedan, I had my eye on one that I thought was perfect. Sticker price was right around $57K if I remember correctly. While it was not loaded with options, it was comparable to at least a 2LT C6 as far as features go. It had heated seats, moonroof, I-pod interface, electronic dampers, etc. I'd say it was closer to a 3LT with F55 if I really think about it.

I'd say there are people cross-shopping the 2 cars, especially the coupe and convertible models. It makes sense to me that these comparisons pop up.
Andy

 

[QUOTE=goatts;1573018964]Sorry, the most basic traditional definition of a sports car is that it has two seats. I guess you consider the STI and Evo sports cars? M3 is a high performance sedan/coupe.

I agree, the most basic denfinition also consist of, built for high speed, maneuverability, that usually seats two persons. This does not exclude two door cars with 4 seats or even perhaps sport sedans. There's many of two seat sports cars that fall short of these standards. I have a 4 door sedan that weighs 4100 lbs, seats 4, stock equiped with two way (sport) or comfort mode trans, two way (sport 1) or (sport 2) mode suspension, 469 hp @ 516 tq that ran 12.04 @ 117 mph on factory stock 19'' rims & tires, the only mods are two K-N filters & hi-flow cats. Some would consider this a supercar. The M3 comes with a switch labeled (sport) that increses hp and changes the driving mode. Some would consider the new E92 M3 a supercar as well, it's all over the internet, check it out. The application of the term is subjective and offened disputed especially amoung enthusias. A Zonda is a supercar, and a race car disguised as a exotic sports car.

 

Maybe you're right. I would cross shop the CTS-V and the M3 but not the M3 and the vette. Don't get me wrong the M3 is an amazing car.