is there a 'cams for beginners' thread?
Thread Starter
Safety Car
Joined: Dec 2009
Posts: 4,754
Likes: 303
is there a 'cams for beginners' thread?
I'm looking at cam options for my LS3 and I see indepth posts about fly cutting and stock vs. aftermarket heads, valve springs and how long which ones will live at what lift, timing chain replacement w/ single or dual and crank pinning, ect.
I'm mostly concerned with keeping the car reliable on both the street and the road course while it's being driven aggressively. I don't want a valve spring to fail and I don't want the chain to break, and I don't want to have to do any machining or head swapping. I'd like a powerful cam that will slide right in, and with the proper hardware, be reliable for at least 10k miles between services/inspections.
So how big can I go in size, what do the sizes mean, what is the difference in the lobes? And what lift is safe? Examples of a very conservative or stock cam vs. an aggressive one would be nice so I can picture the difference better.
I'm mostly concerned with keeping the car reliable on both the street and the road course while it's being driven aggressively. I don't want a valve spring to fail and I don't want the chain to break, and I don't want to have to do any machining or head swapping. I'd like a powerful cam that will slide right in, and with the proper hardware, be reliable for at least 10k miles between services/inspections.
So how big can I go in size, what do the sizes mean, what is the difference in the lobes? And what lift is safe? Examples of a very conservative or stock cam vs. an aggressive one would be nice so I can picture the difference better.
Burning Brakes
Joined: Apr 2008
Posts: 815
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From: Virginia beach va
well as for the chain breaking there are many theories on that but no definite answers. But for a cam size I would contact spin here on the forum he is very knowledgeable on a good cam but there are also many supporting vendors that have good cam specs also.
Thread Starter
Safety Car
Joined: Dec 2009
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I didn't want to make spin explain everything about cams, so i figured others could chip in, or maybe there was somewhere that I could just read existing information.
Safety Car
Joined: Jun 1999
Posts: 3,570
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From: Austin, Singapore, Kuala Lumpur, Houston, Dallas, Hong Kong, Elgin, etc.. Texas
Another source is Comp Cam. Call them. They are known to help.
YouTube has a number of videos of cars with cams.
Another source are the on-line magazines such as CHEVYHIPERFORMANCE.COM and GMHIGHTECHPERFORMANCE.COM. They run a number of detailed comparison tests which I personally have found very useful.
YouTube has a number of videos of cars with cams.
Another source are the on-line magazines such as CHEVYHIPERFORMANCE.COM and GMHIGHTECHPERFORMANCE.COM. They run a number of detailed comparison tests which I personally have found very useful.
Last edited by Mez; May 17, 2010 at 04:14 PM.
Thread Starter
Safety Car
Joined: Dec 2009
Posts: 4,754
Likes: 303
So lets take Spin's new cam spec:
231 LSL intake lobe
234 XER exhaust lobe
114 LSA
112 intake center line
What do the numbers stand for? What do the letters (LSL/XER) stand for?
What about the 114/112 part?
how does this compare to the stock cam specs?
Are certain lobes harder on valve springs? Are dual springs better than single, and do they work on all cams, or can only some cams fit dual springs...
I don't want to roll up to my local shop and just say, "here's this cam, put it in with whatever hardware you recommend"... I want to know how it works and how to best keep the motor together when modifying the internals.
I feel like too many people mention putting in a cam like installing headers or something... if done wrong or if done using the wrong parts, it could really mess up the motor.
231 LSL intake lobe
234 XER exhaust lobe
114 LSA
112 intake center line
What do the numbers stand for? What do the letters (LSL/XER) stand for?
What about the 114/112 part?
how does this compare to the stock cam specs?
Are certain lobes harder on valve springs? Are dual springs better than single, and do they work on all cams, or can only some cams fit dual springs...
I don't want to roll up to my local shop and just say, "here's this cam, put it in with whatever hardware you recommend"... I want to know how it works and how to best keep the motor together when modifying the internals.
I feel like too many people mention putting in a cam like installing headers or something... if done wrong or if done using the wrong parts, it could really mess up the motor.
Safety Car
Joined: Jun 1999
Posts: 3,570
Likes: 3
From: Austin, Singapore, Kuala Lumpur, Houston, Dallas, Hong Kong, Elgin, etc.. Texas
Here are two links to Cam Basics. I found them on the Comp Cam website.
http://www.compcams.com/Community/Ar...p?ID=783188293
http://www.compcams.com/Community/Ar...ID=-2026144213
http://www.compcams.com/Community/Ar...?ID=1726205736
http://www.compcams.com/Community/Ar...p?ID=783188293
http://www.compcams.com/Community/Ar...ID=-2026144213
http://www.compcams.com/Community/Ar...?ID=1726205736
Last edited by Mez; May 17, 2010 at 05:23 PM.
Melting Slicks
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 2,326
Likes: 5
From: louisville "derby city" kentucky
So lets take Spin's new cam spec:
231 LSL intake lobe
234 XER exhaust lobe
114 LSA
112 intake center line
What do the numbers stand for? What do the letters (LSL/XER) stand for?
What about the 114/112 part?
how does this compare to the stock cam specs?
Are certain lobes harder on valve springs? Are dual springs better than single, and do they work on all cams, or can only some cams fit dual springs...
I don't want to roll up to my local shop and just say, "here's this cam, put it in with whatever hardware you recommend"... I want to know how it works and how to best keep the motor together when modifying the internals.
I feel like too many people mention putting in a cam like installing headers or something... if done wrong or if done using the wrong parts, it could really mess up the motor.
231 LSL intake lobe
234 XER exhaust lobe
114 LSA
112 intake center line
What do the numbers stand for? What do the letters (LSL/XER) stand for?
What about the 114/112 part?
how does this compare to the stock cam specs?
Are certain lobes harder on valve springs? Are dual springs better than single, and do they work on all cams, or can only some cams fit dual springs...
I don't want to roll up to my local shop and just say, "here's this cam, put it in with whatever hardware you recommend"... I want to know how it works and how to best keep the motor together when modifying the internals.
I feel like too many people mention putting in a cam like installing headers or something... if done wrong or if done using the wrong parts, it could really mess up the motor.
Thread Starter
Safety Car
Joined: Dec 2009
Posts: 4,754
Likes: 303
i have installed this cam before. never a problem at all. a cam is part of the big picture when making performance improvments. last one i did was for steve ray who does hoodliner art on the forum. i installed a ported throttle body, ported stock intake, this cam, valve springs, iwis timing chain, and kooks headers. it made 571 crankshaft hp, and 504 rear wheel horsepower. 461 ft. lbs. of torque at the rear wheels. he has had zero problems with it since i installed it in febuary. he runs it very hard also. pm me if you are interested. after this install, you will probably want to get some 18x11 rear wheels and drag radials to hold it. trust me, you will need it. runflat tires will not hold it at all........cranky
The car runs strong now, but I can't stop thinking about what it could do w/ a cam. I just want something I can run hard on the road courses at very high RPMs w/o worry. I'd love to break that 500whp mark tho
Last edited by turbotuner20v; May 17, 2010 at 06:51 PM.
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Thread Starter
Safety Car
Joined: Dec 2009
Posts: 4,754
Likes: 303
Here are two links to Cam Basics. I found them on the Comp Cam website.
http://www.compcams.com/Community/Ar...p?ID=783188293
http://www.compcams.com/Community/Ar...ID=-2026144213
http://www.compcams.com/Community/Ar...?ID=1726205736
http://www.compcams.com/Community/Ar...p?ID=783188293
http://www.compcams.com/Community/Ar...ID=-2026144213
http://www.compcams.com/Community/Ar...?ID=1726205736
Pro
Joined: May 2006
Posts: 643
Likes: 0
From: New York
Here are two links to Cam Basics. I found them on the Comp Cam website.
http://www.compcams.com/Community/Ar...p?ID=783188293
http://www.compcams.com/Community/Ar...ID=-2026144213
http://www.compcams.com/Community/Ar...?ID=1726205736
http://www.compcams.com/Community/Ar...p?ID=783188293
http://www.compcams.com/Community/Ar...ID=-2026144213
http://www.compcams.com/Community/Ar...?ID=1726205736
On the OP's original question on his LS3 what would be the best cam for an idle close to stock, easy on the rest of the engine components, and gives good power increases in the most used RPM range of 1500-5000(street)? Is there such a cam?
Thread Starter
Safety Car
Joined: Dec 2009
Posts: 4,754
Likes: 303
Great info here, but a little overwhelming for someone like me! On the OP's original question on his LS3 what would be the best cam for an idle close to stock, easy on the rest of the engine components, and gives good power increases in the most used RPM range of 1500-5000(street)? Is there such a cam?
On the OP's original question on his LS3 what would be the best cam for an idle close to stock, easy on the rest of the engine components, and gives good power increases in the most used RPM range of 1500-5000(street)? Is there such a cam?
Safety Car
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 3,922
Likes: 4
From: Cheektowaga NY
St. Jude Donor '08
Here are two links to Cam Basics. I found them on the Comp Cam website.
http://www.compcams.com/Community/Ar...p?ID=783188293
http://www.compcams.com/Community/Ar...ID=-2026144213
http://www.compcams.com/Community/Ar...?ID=1726205736
http://www.compcams.com/Community/Ar...p?ID=783188293
http://www.compcams.com/Community/Ar...ID=-2026144213
http://www.compcams.com/Community/Ar...?ID=1726205736
Safety Car
Joined: Jun 1999
Posts: 3,570
Likes: 3
From: Austin, Singapore, Kuala Lumpur, Houston, Dallas, Hong Kong, Elgin, etc.. Texas
Great info here, but a little overwhelming for someone like me! On the OP's original question on his LS3 what would be the best cam for an idle close to stock, easy on the rest of the engine components, and gives good power increases in the most used RPM range of 1500-5000(street)? Is there such a cam?
On the OP's original question on his LS3 what would be the best cam for an idle close to stock, easy on the rest of the engine components, and gives good power increases in the most used RPM range of 1500-5000(street)? Is there such a cam?Here is an LS3 cam comparison test I think you will find informative.
GM High Tech Performance Cam Comparison
Last edited by Mez; May 18, 2010 at 12:20 AM.
Race Director
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 12,367
Likes: 2,900
From: Fort Worth, Texas
Nice.. I've got a halltech intake, ported TB and ported stock LS3 intake along with C6Z manifolds and cats, 3" x-pipe and NPP mufflers and I'm making 426whp/412 (STD)... just sent some front wheels off for the 18x11 mod to run on the 305/35-18 MT ET streets I've got in the garage. I may go get it tuned next week too, but if I tune it, I'm jumping in with both feet and doing a cam too.
The car runs strong now, but I can't stop thinking about what it could do w/ a cam. I just want something I can run hard on the road courses at very high RPMs w/o worry. I'd love to break that 500whp mark tho
The car runs strong now, but I can't stop thinking about what it could do w/ a cam. I just want something I can run hard on the road courses at very high RPMs w/o worry. I'd love to break that 500whp mark tho
Pro
Joined: May 2006
Posts: 643
Likes: 0
From: New York
There are a many threads here that debate the positives and negatives of different cams. Plus tests in magazines. Do a search. Call Comp Cams or talk to a local tuner.
Here is an LS3 cam comparison test I think you will find informative.
GM High Tech Performance Cam Comparison
Here is an LS3 cam comparison test I think you will find informative.
GM High Tech Performance Cam Comparison
After reading this, I'm not so sure I want to tear into my engine for an average HP gain of about 30-40, especially when most of that is in the upper RPM range.
Thread Starter
Safety Car
Joined: Dec 2009
Posts: 4,754
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How does the exhaust system impact the cam choice? Are you saying another cam would make more power than the spin cam on c6z exhaust just by working w/ the exhaust better, or by being more aggressive to make up for the restrictive exhaust?
Thread Starter
Safety Car
Joined: Dec 2009
Posts: 4,754
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Former Vendor
Joined: Apr 2006
Posts: 2,470
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From: Portland OR
St. Jude Donor '10-'11-'12
Give me a call and I can explain things a little bit to you.
Basically you chose a cam that makes power in the rpm range you want your performance to be be effective in. Things like what gears you have and weight of the car have an effect on it. Maintenance is another aspect.
Basically you chose a cam that makes power in the rpm range you want your performance to be be effective in. Things like what gears you have and weight of the car have an effect on it. Maintenance is another aspect.
Race Director
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 12,367
Likes: 2,900
From: Fort Worth, Texas
Not that the ls7 exhaust isn't the best oe system, it's just not as good as headers which is what spin's cam was designed for. I was hoping he'd chime in, but imo I'd run a little less overlap and more of a split since the engine isn't as efficiently expelling gases. Although you can look up "silvervette05" who ran the cam on his ls2 with ls7 exhaust and see his results for yourself. To me something like the cam "Gotcha" has would be a better match or the G6XE cam the "vettechictwins" run. You can idle it low to get the lope if desired.
Last edited by PRE-Z06; May 19, 2010 at 03:50 AM.
