That's a pretty bold statement just to try and push more Cow Boosters. Any data available to substantiate this claim. I'll sell my ported TB, I could use some extra cash.



The Cow Booster serves it's designed purpose but don't discredit proven modifications to justify your product.

 

Mr. Toigs, your intended mod list wont add that much power but it's a start. Personally, I'd hold off on installing the Mags and get a set of headers first. Check the F/S section for a good price on a used set. You may notice the headers + Mags are too loud for your taste. (purely subjective) But the headers would at least get you some good power. If I were you, I'd do headers, VR + (spacer since you already ordered it), 160* stat, and tune. You will pick up a decent amount of power and it's a good base for almost any further modifications you do next. Then if you want to try the Mags, throw them on. If you don't like them or want to recover some costs from the other mods, you could sell them.

 

I'll set you straight.....

While 7 to 9 is wishful, (and hardly worth the money) when you get beyond cold

air intakes and headers... A ported throttle body will cause problems with idle

and decel when the engine is modified... If you get past the troubles with tuning,

the end result will be a higher than necessary idle. If you are NOT an experienced calibrator,

or your vehicle is not modified more than stock-ish mods... You may not have a problem.

When you say..."[B]without actually gaining any hp or tq, but I prefer actual gains over perceived gains."

You are completely wrong. While CoW BOOSTER does NOT make WOT improvements

in torque and horsepower, it makes SIGNIFICANT improvements in torque and horsepower

"RELATIVE TO THROTTLE PEDAL POSITION" and especially in the lower RPMs.

You must understand the concepts at play here. For your own benefit, you should

consider the definition of TORQUE and the definition of "throttle response" and then from what

I've described countless times on this forum, try to understand the relationship between them

and how it applies to CoW BOOSTER!

Again, to imply that CoW BOOSTER is imaginary or that it's benefits are merely "perceived" and not

real or quantified....I strongly encourage you to consider the laws of physics and re-read what I've posted countless times...

Good idea.... Several hundred people have done so already. There is not ONE CoW BOOSTER!

customer who did NOT like the product. Hard for YOU to judge, but you have to experience it

first hand. Don't try to understand what I've done or why it works....

Just simply get in a car that has it....AND THEN TELL ME WITH A STRAIGHT FACE THAT

YOU'RE NOT INTERESTED IN IT.... YOU WILL WANT IT.

Better yet...CoW BOOSTER is TOTALLY GUARANTEED! For now it's $119. and gonna go up after Christmas.

But, if you DO NOT LIKE IT after you drive it, I'll REFUND YOU the $99 you paid.

We have not had one complaint or return.... ONLY RAVE REVIEWS.

I'm absolutely certain that any minute HP improvement you think you got from a ported TB

will be completely overshadowed with MY PRODUCT at half the price.

Again, porting throttle bodies deserves a much more lengthy technical explanation,

but trust me as a very popular and respected tuner, I was down on PORTING THROTTLE BODIES

WAY BEFORE CoW BOOSTER ever existed. If I thought for one second that it was a viable

modification or could be profitable without potentially causing problems, I'd be all over it.....

I like money as much as the next guy, but I would never sell or offer a ported TB to any of my customers.

It's a long story and a really bad idea in my opinion.

Just because it worked for a few people does not mean it's good for the gander....

Chuck CoW

 

I have not made a single judgment about your product (in this thread) yet you're throwing out your advertised defense for it. This is about your claim that a ported TB isn't worth it. While 7-9rwhp may be on the high side, I'm thinking 4-5rwhp is an accepted average gain, $150-200 for 5rwhp is about average with minor mods on the C6. Whether or not it's worth it, only the end user can decide based on their final build plans. The little things, while maybe not worth much at face value, add up. A ported TB is one of those. It's part of the overall build plan.



hmm...I have a ported TB with my H/C build and have no idle issues, no decel issues, and no rev matching issues, and so do many others I know with a ported TB. It idles around 900 +/-, and I believe most of that is because of my cam/UD pulley. Hardly an exceptionally high idle RPM for a street car.


Look Mr. Cow, you want to sell this man your Cow Booster thing, go right ahead. But I don't think there's anyone here you need to set straight. Very nice of you to turn this guys thread into another sales pitch for your product though.

 

There again is your problem... You don't NEED a 900+ rpm idle to have a cam and pulley.....

Let's just increase the idle to 1200 rpms! Then it will NEVER stall or cut our when you decel...

You hit the nail on the head.

There was no need for your response nor did I call your wife ugly...

It's accepted that ported throttle bodies are not a good idea. I certainly don't

expect you to know why.

I'm just looking to help some people out and save them some money and possible headaches.

Your comments were inappropriate.
Chuck CoW

 

Thanks for the advice on the headers...it is something I have been seriously thinking about alot lately as a mod to do before my dyno tune in a couple weeks. Any idea on a good, low cost, set of headers I can buy new? The Mags are already on the Vette...came on it when I bought it.

 

Yeah 1200! How about 1500 or maybe 2000...c'mon now Mr. Cow. 900 is too high?

A salesman to the very end. I'm not sure I can even follow your train of thought anymore sir. You can assume that's because of my lack of intelligence if you'd like. Not sure what response was inappropriate or where the ugly wife part came in...

Even speaking to some of your supporters, they agree that your posting style rubs people the wrong way sometimes. But hey, that's the internet. Perhaps it was your "Let me set you straight" comment or how your entire post was telling me I can't pass judgement about the Cow Booster, and "hundreds of satisfied customers", etc. When I wasn't even talking about your product. We were discussing ported TBs and you're pushing your Cow Booster at me like I said there was something wrong with it. Maybe I'm taking it the wrong way...?

I don't want to turn this poor guys thread into a back and forth so if you can teach us about ported TBs, then do it.

 

The most popular brands seem to be ARH, Kooks, and LG. Although if you search you'll find a lot of info about the ebay/knock-off headers for way cheaper. I wont get into that discussion but a search will give you a lot of info. More than you even want probably. Don't be scared of a good used set though. Most are in excellent condition, save for some cosmetic wear, and you can save up to 50% alot of the time. Headers are a great base mod for almost any future plans.

 

OP, I'm in the same boat you are buddy!!! We're basically mod less and need some mods!!!

 

Hey Matt & Toigs....

Call me as I've got some really good suggestions for you.

The ideas I have for you just MIGHT be different than what you're seeing on the forums...

Give me a shout. 914-332-0048

Chuck CoW

 

By who, exactly?

 

Certainly not by me or any of the other quickest guys I'm familiar with.

BTW, did you ever test out that electronic regressive throttle cable deal?

 

No, opted against that one.

 

Having ported TBs for pretty much the entire time the C6 is in existence, I can tell you in well over 200 ported for everything from stock, to H/C, to twin turbo, to my car which was at 959rwhp, I have never once seen a car not idle right or die from the addition of my TB's and not one has ever been returned due to poor performance or lack of performance. Not one modded car owner has ever reported a change in their modded car's idle characteristics that neccessitated the increase in idle speed to compensate for adverse idle issues regardless of power/mod level.

My personal car which has run the full spectrum of cam sizes, nitrous, FI, ect, runs like stock with no hiccups or idle issues, nor is it too high an idle (it ran the stock settings when it was stock and no tuning was even out for the C6 yet) and it didnt change the idle, idle quality, nor did it stall, stumble, or exibit any change from adding it to the car. The only feedback got about idle was how it and throttle response improved.

Lots of vendors are in business to sell their products, I just think a good mod requires nothing but the advertisement of it and not a comparo to what other mods arent good. If anyone had issues after a ported TB, you didnt get this one:


Many customers told me they bought this ported TB solely because of how it looked cosmetically with the polished motor assembly and painted silver or black frame. Personally, I think at 149 bucks it was a steal.

 

Great post Jay, I have one of your beautiful ported throttle bodies on my car (about 2 + years now) and it still looks and performs great!

Shado, just look the other way man, the OP recognizes your help and quality feedback.

Happy Thanksgiving everyone!

 

Already have brother, thanks.

 

Set the idle to 950 and forget it. Then there are no problems.

Just because it works for a few guys, does not mean it is right.

There are tables in the pcm that represent and compensate for the mass of aluminum

and what some call a restriction. NONE of you have access to these tables.

I have.

Any of us that want to have a respectable idle rpm know how it works.

There is math in the pcm that calculates what each given step of the TB is worth

in terms of airflow. As the blade tips back and begins to open, the top opens first (by design)

while the bottom of the blade remains shrouded by the suposed "restriction" in the

critical off idle area. Forcing the air over the top of the blade and not the bottom

causes (again, by design) the airflow to ride the top of the port as that is where the

opening to the intake runners are. Had it not been for turbulence at low rpms,

it might not matter much. Additionally, the way the unshrouded lower part of the throttle blade

opens, it has the potential to shear the air causing an off idle "whistle".

You may not hear it with your headers and such, but that was also a design consideration.

On average a stock-ish vehicle can idle on 6 or so grams of air and a hot setup might

need 12-15 grams of air to idle. The pcm uses this information (with lots of other stuff)

to manage a proper idle and control decel. Removing that "restriction" is worth

a few grams of idle air. That few grams can wreak havoc on the idle controls and 2 grams

could be as much as 20% of your idle air calculation, whereas 2 grams of air

at WOT is hardly worth any horsepower as the engine is already producing a much bigger

amount of power, and again, by comparison....Hardly worth the risk in my opinion.

GM didn't leave those "restrictions" in the throttle body by accident or because they are

lazy and trying to save machine work. They knew exactly what they were doing and

that material that soo many "porting professionals" remove for the sake of 5 or less

HP that you MIGHT or might not be getting has a definite purpose.

Stock vehicles might see an improvement in "throttle tip-in" and no response improvement

after that. WOT gains are minimal and not worth the risk or dollars.

Higher than average HP cars with big cams and mods might not notice the "tip in"

improvements or idle problems or only have idle problems on hard decel

as on these higher HP cars the blade might start "more open" than lesser HP vehicles

and potentially cause less problems.

Listen, some of you might be happy with a 900 rpm idle or you might just accept that

"dip" in your idle when you clutch in or come to a stop...That's cool if you're willing

compromise a bit. I won't argue.

The point of the story here was to hopefully prevent some of you from making what

could be a mistake by buying (or porting yourself) a perfectly good "stock" GM

throttle body. Do you really think that going from 90mm to a slightly smoother

90mm TB is gonna change your WOT HP by much if at all??? NOPE.

Save your money, and avoid potential problems. Put the $200 bucks towards

something else that will give you a much better yield with no risk.

That's how it works.
Chuck CoW

 

I am much happier to have gained even as little as a single HP for my $150 ported TB, while retaining a smooth 500 RPM idle for my 10 second LS3, than spending nearly the same for a software change that merely changes my foot position at partial throttle and produces absolutely no HP gains.

 

 

Chuck, the point of my post was to show that in 200 ported TB's, they were installed on modded cars that had various mods of all power levels from stock to 959rwhp where adding the ported TB gave no adverse idle issues that required the idle speed to be increased to counter those issues you say you've witnessed.

As far as "works for a few guys", I think 200+ sold is more than a few guys.

For the record, I have a shop and have produced 14 cars over 800rwhp and I lost count on the 500-700rwhp range, yet not one car I've cammed, built the shortblock with my own hands, added ported heads to, supercharged, or added a turbo kit to has ever failed and come back. Spare me the "how it works". I tried giving you a data point to think about the possibility that not all TB's group with the obviously bad ones you've tried.

I've always been cool with you but you need to stop with trying to sell yourself with "everyone does it wrong but me" posts. I dont have issues with your mod and this is my second and final post on this thread without ever talking about how your mod performs yet I have to come here to rescue my attacked product with claims not seen in 200+ sold. Adding my TB to a modded car has never required the idle to be raised.

Why a public smack in the face? You could have just said that the ones you tried didnt work out as an 'out' for yourself when you saw how it affected someone that supports you. Instead you gave me a long educational post as if I need to be taught how it works. I never would have done that to you. We'll laugh about it over dinner one time when I get back to NY for a visit. I'm already over it. I guess I've come a long way from who I was after 9/11.

Happy Thanksgiving everyone!
Be safe and remember the holiday season harbors a lot of depression, thus many drunk drivers. Please be careful and be mindful of them for yourself and your family.