Detoxx....Allan Futral has made this setup for me. You know personally that he wouldn't steer me wrong

 

Trust me I know he wouldn't but I was just answering your question about why the stall came into the thread. Allan and his whole team know what they are doing so I wouldn't worry about your setup.

 

I know guys that DD 4k stall that are set up tight, not all converters are equal...a 2800 stall would work, but you're going to be faster with a higher stall because you get into the powerband quicker and the bigger the cam, the higher it is...my point was that a smaller cam makes more power down low and can be as fast or faster if not willing to run a larger stall, being that I didn't realize you were an auto. I also didn't realize you were already dealing with a shop which I'm sure knows the cam isn't the only part of the recipe to making power, so hopefully I'm enlightening someone else.

I agree, but the LSA does play a factor in the powerband and efficiency of the motor depending on the lobes chosen.

Well said.

 

The key to the higher stall is the 4:1 first gear in the 6 speed auto. It allows for the higher stall speed and still be daily driven. I have a good friend with a comparable camshaft and a 3800 stall and it hauls the mail and he drives it daily. Even on long trips. Like another member posted, its all about having parts that match that make your combo efficient. Just a thought.

 

This is true to a point, but the LSA doesn't say anything about the cam (while still important obviously to know where the lobes are looking at a catalog cam). Looking at LSA doesn't mean anything to how it will drive or where the power will be. A 220/220 110* cam will drive much better and have power lower than a 240/240 114* even though 114* LSA sounds like it is a more "street LSA". I still standby that LSA is a result, not a design characteristic. If the lobes are placed where you need them for the powerband and efficiency, the LSA is correct now matter what number that happens to come out to. I realize we are splitting hairs here on the debate, but too many look at LSA first to judge what the cam will be like and that is 100% the wrong way to do it. Too many threads about a cam say "you will need a 115-116* LSA for that", which I hate because that is the wrong way to go about it. We have become an "LSA" crowd for some reason.

-Cody

 

I hear ya, most who say that don't even know how to calculate overlap.

 

What is this "overlap" thing you guys keep talking about...

Lot's of good advice from you and others in this thread for those listening.

 

It is the area on cam that the intake valve and exhaust valve are open at the same time.

 

He's kidding, it's not his first rodeo

 

I just had a 234/242 113+4 installed in my Z06 and I'm not sure I like how it effected the drivability. Although, it holds a steady idle at 750rpm

 

Haha, I wondered if he was, but I find more and more people that can't use Google, so you never know

 

LSA is not even a function of cam timing. LSA=ICL+ECL/2. ICL and ECL are the highest points on the intake and exhaust lobe. The distance in cam degrees between those two highest points=LSA.

ICL and ECL along with duration determine overlap. As Palmer mentioned, plot your valve events at your lobe lift intervals that you deem important to the combination you're specifying the camshaft for. ICL, ECL and duration at said lobe lifts are key to plotting the proper events and not LSA as was mentioned by Palmer and Josh.

You guys already knew that though.

 

I agree it's a by product that does effect the powerband ultimately however you want to slice things, as there are different ways to look at it...the IVC has more of an affect than the EVO of course, hopefully whoever is still reading this thread is learning lol

 

That would be me, and yes there is a lot of go info in this thread.

 

I place IVC above all other valve events. IVC is the most single important event in filling the cylinder with air mass and shaping the power curve inside of an engine's operating range. Operating range is determined by C.I. and the induction package present on that engine. Cam timing just accentuates the power curve in said operating range.

When I am specifying a cam, I plot my IVC event(and the other 3 events) at the lobe lifts I feel are important. The more lobe lift intervals I can plot valve events for, the better I feel the cam is tailored to the combination. This is the only time I use software when specifying a cam. Most of the time you are only given lobe lift intervals of .006", .020", .050" and .200". That said, with the software I use I can take that information, along with max lobe lift, lobe lift@TDC and the rocker ratio being used and plot the rest of the lift curve that is missing from the "catalog specs".

From there I use my chosen IVC event to select the position in crank degrees I would like to see the EVO event occur. I place the EVO event second in importance on my list. From there I calculate overlap area and what is needed in terms of overlap based on my customers driving habits, operating range and the induction package presently used on the engine.

These are just a few of many considerations I take when specifying a camshaft, but they are the most relevant to this discussion.

 

Yeah sure, I knew that!!??? I'm calling you at cam time Martin.

 

Not the explanation in laymans terms lol, but I know what you mean...sorry for the hi-jack OP

 

What is funny is, those that realize what is happening in an induction system use a method like this of plotting a valve in relation to what is needed given all the factors, but not once did you say max lift or LSA in your post. If you ask for a cam suggestion on a forum, you get "I would get a .600+ lift with a 113* LSA".
From what I have read here, I would also call Tick, he clearly is not just throwing lobes on a stick like some 'other' companies I see out there that come highly recommended. A correctly setup induction/valvetrain package won't always make the most power on the dyno, but will produce the faster car. Just because they can put out a sheet that makes more HP for 10rpms on a dyno sheet does not mean the power is better for the whole curve, unless you have a way to keep the engine in that peak HP/RPM forever, take the average power over peak every time.

 

Exactly why I picked Tick (Martin) due to all the concerns I had. He actually gave me options and reasons why. I made my choice and today I'm happy. My car pulls like a freight train all they way to 7k and yet docile even at 1.5k.

 

But, but....a 114lsa is for a smooth idle and a 112lsa is for a choppy idle!

Don't bring their world crashing down on them when you tell them that more lobe/valve lift doesn't always mean a more aggressive lobe all the time.

That one really will blow their mind...