Originally Posted by dennis50nj

what I cant understand is how dumb the nay Sayers are and also cheap, you can afford to buy a C6 corvette but cry about $400.00 for a product that has been proven, do all the nay Sayers dis believe the gains in the proven 1/4 mile list, also its a money back guarantee. you follow what one person says about the gain is just cold air, yet cant explain the 5 mph and 5/10s i gained in the 1/4 in just the first 100 ft, because the cold air would be in the engine compartment feeding the engine after the first 100 ft, the iat would be ambient after that 100 ft, cant you understand that. I guess that's why we with vararam are that much faster, and the rest are that much slower, dollar to hp the vararam is one of the best mods and cheapest mods. you cheap no it all at the bottom of the performance list should stay in the wax section

Originally Posted by jbomx363

Yes Mike.. please post. I've read a bunch of threads and am getting confused by all the different ways to do the FREE mod. Is one to assume, the cuts on the corners , instead of the middle, may also have less chance of any water ingestion too? And.. is it possible to open the shroud on the corners without cutting?

And.. I agree with Air Ram... not much ramming going on. Colder air, absolutely. VR probably a good product, but it's not for me.

It's a cost to benefit ratio thing. Free mod maybe 2/10th's, VR maybe 4/10's. Since I'm not after any records, I'm fine with that.

Originally Posted by Mike's LS3

Look on Halltech's website. Click install menu button at the top right. A picture of the inner shroud will appear. A finger is pointing to the bottom lip of the shroud where a rivet broke loose allowing air to come in from the center shroud. This center section of the shroud should be closed. The section that I removed for cold air is the bottom lip at both ends of the shroud. Without disturbing the rivet housing, I cut the bottom lip of the shroud between the wire harness and rivet housing. Again, do not cut into the rivet housing. Caution: Do Not cut those wires, I believe they are part of the air bag system. Keep them protected! The portion I removed was about 4" long 1 1/2 " wide, only the bottom lip, not the upper portion of the shroud. I did this on both sides using a utility knife cutting away from the wires. New blades makes the job easier. Do this at your own risk!

Originally Posted by Mike's LS3

Not necessarily, I experienced a slight tip in surge on the freeway when the center portion of the shroud started to pop out. As soon as I duct taped it shut, the surge went away. This has occurred with both the oem air filter and the Halltech MF103. Jim Halltech also recommends not to open the center portion of the shroud with his air intakes for this reason. I do have the cutouts on the ends of the shroud for cold air and have no issues. The LS3/7 MAF senor is sensitive to turbulent air. I did my homework and data logged my fuel trims on the highway with the center portion of the shroud open. The fuel trims were erratic enough to cause a surge. Just letting those who are considering this mod a little warning.

Originally Posted by AIR_RAM

JBOMX363, Now look what you have done! You agreed that the VR was perhaps a good intake but not what your looking for, yet you where still blasted for thinking differently than Dennis ... I guess for Dennis to agree with any of us, we would all first need to buy all the same mods he has and agree his is the best EVER... Because everything Dennis has is better than anything anyone else has... His VR intake is better than all the other VR intake as well!!! LMAO

I have noticed a trend with Dennis... He rarely adds anything to a post and quick to attack anyone with an opinion other than his own. He resorts to name calling and trash talking when he has clearly lost a friendly debate. Apparently he is incapable of appreciating anything different than his own thoughts and beliefs. It's no wonder people can't take him seriously...

I think he is a very bad rep for VR!

But hey he has a cool car so we have to give him some credit!

Also, I have read several write ups on the VR about heating issues during track day events. The VR appears to be a great intake for short burst but blocks a large portion of the radiator making road course cars run hot. This is coming from those who have actual experience with the VR. So this leads me to believe the VR may be a great intake with short burst as with 1/4 mile inline racing, it may not be the best choice for those who run on a road course track.

SPEED SAFE

Originally Posted by ls1121

Now I will continue on with the realistic posts in this thread because i have an interest in doing some things to my Corvette. People talk about turbulence being the major culprit, is the shape of the stock filter the i
ssue, would a flat pancake type filter eliminate this? When I cut away the underside of the filter housing on my Z28 I never had any issues with any of my electronics.

Originally Posted by ls1121

If you want to see "dumb" take a look in the mirror. It all comes down to science and I believe that most all of the "Science" has been explained here in this thread. I myself have NEVER SAID that any of those High $$$$$$ intake systems were no good and neither did anyone else in this thread. What has been said here is that they are not worth the money to some of us. I do not Track my car much like MOST of the average Joe's here. OK so here I go. FACT - colder air will help in the creation of HP. FACT - Forcing hot air into the engine will NOT help in creating more HP. If you spent the $$ and happy with the "Cool look" that you got OK Good for you! However to come here on the forum and spout things that are not true does not make you look any smarter. Now I will continue on with the realistic posts in this thread because i have an interest in doing some things to my Corvette. People talk about turbulence being the major culprit, is the shape of the stock filter the issue, would a flat pancake type filter eliminate this? When I cut away the underside of the filter housing on my Z28 I never had any issues with any of my electronics.

Originally Posted by AIR_RAM

Think of it this way... If you had a room with one exit with 100 people in it and there was a fire, if all the people run for the door with no organization there would be a back up at the door with people trying I fight their way out... This could be considered turbulence. Now imagin this same room but everyone files out the door in an orderly fashion. You will get the people out much quicker this way...

Air flows very similarly... So the more organized (non turbulent) it is, the more you can flow through at any given moment.

Or you could look at it as with draining a bathtub or sink. When the whirl pool starts it will drain much faster opposed to when there is no whirl pool. The whirl pool forces the water to become organized as it flowed down the drain.

Dennis said he has special air directing vanes installed inside his VR intake... That's a grate way to organize air flow and remove turbulace and should be credited to some of his gains.

First step is to get the cooler air to the filter. After that, look at organizing it... The resonator is one of the biggest culprits of creating turbulence and gains will be had simply by removing it.

Hope some of this made since.

SPEED SAFE, AIR RAM

Originally Posted by AIR_RAM

Think of it this way... If you had a room with one exit with 100 people in it and there was a fire, if all the people run for the door with no organization there would be a back up at the door with people trying I fight their way out... This could be considered turbulence. Now imagin this same room but everyone files out the door in an orderly fashion. You will get the people out much quicker this way...

Air flows very similarly... So the more organized (non turbulent) it is, the more you can flow through at any given moment.

Or you could look at it as with draining a bathtub or sink. When the whirl pool starts it will drain much faster opposed to when there is no whirl pool. The whirl pool forces the water to become organized as it flowed down the drain.

Dennis said he has special air directing vanes installed inside his VR intake... That's a grate way to organize air flow and remove turbulace and should be credited to some of his gains.

First step is to get the cooler air to the filter. After that, look at organizing it... The resonator is one of the biggest culprits of creating turbulence and gains will be had simply by removing it.

Hope some of this made since.

SPEED SAFE, AIR RAM

Originally Posted by HOXXOH

Forget all the dyno comparisons, because we don't drive anywhere on dynos. The only place that real documented performance can be measured is at the dragstrip. Since it would be impossible to test all the CAI's on the same car at the same track under the same conditions on the same day, the next best thing is to make a comparison based on the highest performing cars in similar categories.

I perused the 1/4 mile performance list and found 24 N/A cars from the LS2/3 bolt-on and internal categories with times quicker than 11.000 seconds. Although this is not a scientific test, it is a quantitative representation of which CAI the quickest cars are using. You can draw your own conclusions.

1 Airaid
1 BPP Vortex
2 Halltech
2 Callaway
16 Vararam
2 unknown

Originally Posted by jbomx363

Thank you Mike.

Dennis..

You gained that 5/10ths on an LS2, which had, arguably, a worse intake than the LS3's, correct?

Are all the other VR owners claiming 5/10ths? Or is there maybe a fair range of ET gain, say..3-5/10ths or has someone said more? If more, what is their setup? LS2,3, 7, 9? With/without boltons/internal mods? Daily drivers, occasional street/strip, or strip only. As you can see, there are many variables involved and a lot of different setups that people have CHOICES they will make.

Also..did you gain that 5/10ths over the stock system or a free modded shroud? Did you gain it with the other bolt-ons or just stock? I'm guessing, with other bolt-ons.

So.. let's say..it's over the stock intake/shroud system..and the free mod has shown even upwards of 3/10ths...you paid $400 for 2-3/10ths, not 5/10ths. I will pay $0 for 2-3/10ths.

Your proclamation of being in the number 1 spot is a very nice accomplishment, seriously, kudo's for that.

I also think you're a pretty nice guy as I've read a lot of your posts throughout the forum and see you've encouraged and helped a lot of folks, myself included.

So, lets just debate with civility.

Originally Posted by ls1121

yes I understand the turbulence idea and i am going to replace my stock air bridge with one from a Z06. People say do not cut the hole directly under the filter, which in my mind is exactly where it is needed (this is what I did on my Z) lol. I've been looking a pic's from the web sites of those who sell aftermarket and they seem to just cut away with no adverse results. I'm thinking just cut a big F'n hole and close up the top. I'm trying to visualize turbulence in my mind and I just don't see it. To create turbulence you would need to drag the air around some type of obstruction, correct?

Originally Posted by AIR_RAM

Turbulence can be caused/created in several ways... You don't necessarily need to place a restriction in air flow to cause it. Simply changing the volume or shape of a given area can cause enough turbulence to effect performance.

Your on the right track though. I'm looking forward to hearing about your experience when completed. I'm wondering if drilling a number of 1/2 holes in that area would be better than just one big hole....

SPEED SAFE, AIR RAM

Originally Posted by Mike's LS3

Just to add:
GM engineers designed the oem Donaldson air filter to actually straighten the air flow prior to entering the MAF read area. They also felt it was necessary to add a Helmholtz Resonator (ugly box on side of LS3 air intake) that is used to smooth out air flow impulses between the MAF and throttle body. Yes, the LS3/7 MAF sensor is sensitive to turbulent air flow.

Originally Posted by AIR_RAM

Mike, I can agree with the filter being specially designed to straighten air flow, I'm very familiar with the theory of operation of resonators and the only reason they are on all production vehicles is to muffle the intake/engine noise.

Most people who purchase a vehicle are over critical about engine noise. Most of us on this forum who do not mind engine noise make up less than 5% of their customer base... So they build the cars to please the majority. Also, the EPA imposes engine noise standards that they must meet.

In order to meet these standards ALL production vehicles come with a resonator (intake muffler) of some sort. The resonator is designed to MUFFLE the intake noise. It muffles by creating turbulence. The effect is very similar to the fluttering you get on the highway when you roll down the rear windows in a four door vehicle... The air passing the resonator hole air reserve creates a vacuum and causes the fluttering/turbulence needed to muffle the intake sounds.

On the filter note, I have experienced better performance with toss away replacement paper filters over oiled reuse able filters. The rechargeable filters have an edge due to cost. This is when keeping the factory intake system.

I hope this makes since...

SPEED SAFE, AIR RAM

Originally Posted by ls1121

See this is what I was thinking. The resonator creates a certain amount of resistance, like a Flute blowing air past a hole creates sound. The resonator creates turbulence when the incoming air is sucked past this hole on the side and then enters and is funneled around inside. By eliminating this it should make the air bridge turbulence free, then by means of cutting a hole or a few that would create some turbulence maybe you would be back to Point-A so to speak. does this make sense?

Originally Posted by AIR_RAM

If yours runs better with the resonator I would suggest leaving it installed.

I don't buy it though. I have never regreted removing the resonator on any of my vehicles, nor have I ever seen a loss from removing it. Replacing the factory intake with a free flowing intake drawing air from a cool air source without a resonator frees up 12-15rwhp on average for most vehicles.
Many people claim higher gains depending on application.

SPEED SAFE, AIR RAM