I can see that, I guess it would come down to how large of a performance gap/edge GM wants to maintain.

I'm optimistic that even a base C7 will have an edge over ZL1 and the CTS-V. As long as the C7 has at least 450 hp and stays around 3200 lbs it will have a better power-to-weight ratio than either car, and be a better handler by virtue of significantly less weight and a newer/updated chassis.

If Chevy can make a pig like the ZL1 dance gracefully, I can't wait to see what they can do with a car that weighs 1000 lbs less.

 

All I know is the base C7 better be faster than the new GT500 by at least .2 seconds. How it does that I don't care.

 

copying a post i made a week or two ago in another thread about the c7 base, but mostly the c7z

Maybe. Not 100% sold they will go supercharged with a car designed for a road course.

If they are sticking with the theme they have, and with the potential of DI motors, I wouldn't be shocked to see them go with agressive engine package again. Maybe not increased dispacement, but a more agressive heads and cam package, maybe more c5zish or boss packages. Obviously really focusing on handling/braking and weight.

If they only get about 470 from the stock 6.2, I wouldn't be suprised to see 525-550 by being more aggressive with the same dispacement, considering the DI. Big power potential with DI. Hyundai is getting 348hp out of a v6 in a daily driver type car.

more on my post above

c5 had 350, c5z 405- gained an extra 55HP by just adding a very mild heads cam pacakge on only a 346

C6 400/430/436 c6z 505 gains 71hp over the ls3 w npp

Really depends on what heads/cam they go with on the c7, but one could argue that if they gained 55 hp putting a mild package on the C5z, then you'll gain at least that much with a more agressive Heads/Cam package on a DI 6.2. Pretty moot arguement at this point though.

Many people "in the know" think that the C7 will have ~470. I think if around 470 it would be a pretty mild setup. I was talking to my dad and told him that the only way the new motor makes under 500 is if they specifically try to do that. The GM 3.6 claimed a 15% increase in power in just switching to DI, still on 87 octane. Gained a solid 50hp on a V6 Even more when they tweaked a couple of things. Apply that 15% to 436 and you get 501. Wouldn't be suprised to see a 476hp C7 to say they gained 50ish hp over the last model, very similar to what the c5 and c6 did, and do it on 87 octane.

Crank up the heads/cam/tune/intake/exhaust and I don't see how the thing wont hit 525-550 on 91, presuming the base is on 87.. Which would be a 50-75hp improvement, while adding no weight.

Adding a blower could easily add 100lbs to the car. Considering the Z06 is supposed to be lighter and more balanced than the stock car that could be a big strike against it.

Just my thoughts, and maybe what I'd like to see on the Z06. The idea of having a cheaper corvette available I could afford, adn the mod potential of that is VERY exciting though.

 

tall order for the base vette in the 1/4 mile

 

Doing the 15% DI gain math on the 6.2 LS3 is what (for me) gives credence to the idea that they'll reduce displacement -- intentionally holding back, as you suggest, but with displacement. And I bet there's room in the block design to build a bigger-displacement version -- probably not an envelope-stretching 427, but a DI 396 would be pretty sweet, wouldn't it?

In fact, purely for nostalgia's sake, I wish for a base 327 and an optional 396. That pair ought to be good for 440 and 550, respectively.

.Jinx

 

I really wouldn't mind and almost would like to see an entry level C7 have a smaller engine. I'd like to see a cheaper Corvette as they promised "a Corvette for everyone" A guy who put some stuff out there right before the Jalopnik stuff came out said the base will have a 6.2 DI. He also said some other stuff that I didn't believe because of what I read here and interviews from GM execs. What he said turned out to be 100% right so far comparing to the Jalopnik car.

It would be nice to see more than just one 6.2 in the base, and then a aggressive engine option in the Z06. It would probably cost them more money than it's worth to offer more different engine options though. They could probably detune the 6.2 pretty easy, and also make an aggressive engine combo with it too. Then take the same engine and forge it, throw a blower on it and that's the top dog.

Thoughts of a 3.6tt are enticing but that could add to much weight to the front of the car than they would like, and I'm not sure a twin turbo v6 would be much, if any cheaper than a NA V8. I hope we get some engine choices but wouldn't be suprised if we don't.

 

Oh there's zero chance of a cheaper Corvette. Entry level? No. The 327 would be the base Corvette as we know it. You don't get a cheaper Corvette by swapping out the engine; that's not where the cost is in the first place.

 

Ya, they tried the cheaper thing with the FRC and I think I read it only ended up being about 300 bucks cheaper than a coupe.

 

True, but it's possible.
The problem is that this new (2013) GT500 wasn't even in the cards yet (at least GM/Chevrolet likely didn't know yet) when the major engine/powertrain decisions for the C7 were initially made (likely two full years ago or more). So they may not have felt the need to 'shoot that high' at that point and now it may just be too late to change/add power to the base car accordingly. But hopefully they knew about the 444hp Boss 302 engine and the latest upgraded power ratings of some other sports cars/sports coupes and have addressed/will answer to at least those offerings and so we could still get our wish of 475+hp.

 

Who promised that?

 

Things I want..

fully forged motor. stock 450hp.
twin disk clutch from zr1
and a strong rear end.
3300lbs or lighter for all models.

If they arn't going to make the base vette faster than a gt500, then make is so we can with minimal effort.

 

If we are talking about a true race track type race, not a drag race, I think the new C7 will be much better than .2s ahead of the GT500. In terms of drag race, no way for the base C7, IMO, as GM will leave that to the Z06 and even then as secondary consideration.

 

The C6 line is almost all there now (only the ZR1 is over 3300), I think we need to shoot a little lighter than that even, especially for the base car.

 

I would like to see speed gained through weight loss than power increase.

 

I think the heavy-duty stuff he wants will add weight back and he's accounting for that and saying he's okay with it.

It's a lot more difficult/expensive to shed pounds at this point. By my math, dropping 100lbs from C6 is equivalent to adding just 14hp. Not that they shouldn't fight like hell to keep the weight down....

.Jinx

 

But I'd still rather see both.





Good point...but I really don't think those things have to add all that much weight. Most of it is not so much 'a heavy addition' as it is 'a slightly heavier replacement' for something already there so I can still see a very modest weight increase stemming from it, especially after removing weight from other areas (aluminum frame, wheels/tires etc).

 

Compare the 05 and 06 rear end castings and it sure looks like a lot of weight. I imagine adding little bits of that all the way through the drivetrain, rear suspension, thicker frame rail walls where everything mounts... if you figure weight reduction is removing strength that isn't needed, calling for more strength adds weight back... or it adds cost to go with more exotic materials.

Sure, there's some optimizations yet to be extracted, but... diminishing returns.

Of course, 50 pounds can be compensated with 7 more hp... vicious cycles...

 

Also true.
A good portion (but not all) of the added weight in a C6 ZR1 (over say, a Z06) does come from the beefier rear/ring gear, clutch, trans strengthening etc so I hear what you're saying there.

 

The cost is most likely more but I would think the packaging would be easier. What I do know is the stock block, crank, and rods have been taken to 1500 HP with no problems so I would say the engines are more reliable/robust than the LSx engines...don't underestimate these V6s. There was a Camaro at the 2009 SEMA show with a 3.6L turbo engine making 425 HP without DI and they are developing a 3.6L turbo for production, it already has an RPO of LF3. The 430 HP of the LS3 will be easily attained by the LF3 as well as the torque with the difference being the LF3 will have a much broader torque band...think of the peak torque of an LS3 being available from 2000-5000 RPM, no waiting until the LS3 torque peak at 4500 RPM. Note I'm not saying a V6 should be in the Corvette, I'm just presenting a few facts.

 

The rumor I've heard repeated about the CTS-V is that it'd have 380hp. I don't want to believe it; it's so conservative, and not enough against BMW. But it would be just like GM.