I'm pretty sure those weights are no driver with a full tank. There's no way the 991S is under 3100. Same with the C6 Z06. That would make it lighter than the curb weight for the early C6Z's which are the lightest C6's.

 

The Magnetic suspention squats and the Z-51 does not. The point you are missing is more hp per liter. So when it gets to 7 liter it will have more than LS-7. now that is In the hands of chevy when they do it!

 

Thanks for updating the facts on squating. As you know, the F55 on the base C6's is very different in tuning or programing than the SR1 as you are referring to. As you have stated, the HP/TQ make it a very NEW GAME when it comes to hooking up AND preventing wheel hop. The ZR1 in their tuning and GM testing determined that they had wheel hop problems and needed to do something or they would be "dropping rear ends". Of course, they changed the half shafts and reprogramed the MRS computer in WOT conditions to squat. The different conditions, such as tire type, road surface, HP/TQ, etc. all contributed to the wheel hop problem AND GM was definitely thinking about their warranty. Have a nice day!

 

I am of the opinion that people dont buy lotus because its a crappy looking, crappy little weenie car with a camry motor. Not because it lacks sound deadening. They actually dont handle very well either by my standards. But they were smart enough to understand basic physics. There is nothing good about the car, but they still make decent lap times for one reason-weight.

I'm glad you brought it up. An elise drive train is within 100 pounds of an ls7/transaxle setup. Add a little room for your golf clubs and there is your more appropriate corvette concept, at less than 2500 lbs. gas mileage goes up by more than 10% not by throwing expensive, unreliable, and compromising tech at it but by simple application of physics.

 

Ya know, these things are easy to check. The curb weight of the new 911S is 3,075 per THEIR WEBSITE. The Z is all over the block depending on option package. However, in 2005 it was 3150 lbs. Good enough for me. Porsche gets lighter (reversing a three decade trend) and Vette SEEMS to get heavier (also reversing a three decade trend). Too bad IMHO.

Really reinforces my point. The base 911 is 3042 lbs with rear seat, lots of luxury, and reasonable power. Do you still believe the Vette team could not have delivered a great car at 2,999? 43 stinkin' lbs less? I am 100% certain they could have.

 

We'll see.

 

They are easy to check but I don't think every manufacturers reports curb weights similarly. The Italians frequently come in overweight at tests because they like to quote weight without fluids inside the car. That's why I quoted C/D. It adds some standardization.

 

Well I will have to disagree on the looks and handling of the Elise. So would all of the people hanging out of their windows taking pictures of it, and those asking me if it was a Ferrari, and those that thought it cost over 100k. Also the handling was favorably compared to the Ferrari 430. It easily out handled my 2001 Z06. Its main handling "problem" was lift throttle oversteer. That was dealt with by not lifting the throttle in a corner. I had the sports package with the Toyo AD07. It also would stay with the Z06 up to 60MPH, so pretty much at all street legal speeds.

I drove mine on the street and track and found the handling quite good except in standing water and ice and snow. What ownership and driving experience did you have with one?

Do you have a cite for the difference in weight in drivetrain? The Venom GT is pretty much the Elise with a V8 and less luggage space. It is however, a bit pricer than a Corvette. I am sure that could be cut by a lot with serial production and only having a 450hp NA V8.

The primary problems with the Elise sales was the very small size. limited and poor dealers, lack of expected creature comforts, very difficult ingress and egress, high insurance rates due to one peice front and rear ends that cost 10k a piece that had to be replace if they go more than a quarter sized hole in them (per the manufacturer). Yes more power would have helped.


The reality is only a small slice of the populace that can afford a $60K sports car, that wants a small cramped, loud car no matter how fast and great it handles.

 

they need to offer a track package edition = No AC , NO Radio , No sound insulation , etc...
kind of what Porsche did with the Boxster creating a lighter ( spyder eidtion) check it out for yourself

 

That would be nice but I don't think Chevy could get away with charging more for a car with nothing in it like Porsche could.

 

Well, I looked up your "quote" and it looks like that was an ESTIMATE, not weighed on a scale -- is there a more recent article I missed? C&D's own website repeats exactly the weights I quoted for the new Porsches. Further, R&T (2/12) actually weighed an S and it came in at 3,295 WITH THE DRIVER -- they estimated the curb weight @ 3,120, which is close enough to the 3,075 for me. Now they recently tested some Z06's and they came out at a rather tubby 3300 curb weight so I'll grant you that -- but that is nothing Chevy should be proud of.

I've read C&D long enough to recognize they add more humor than standardization...

My point stands. A reasonably civilized 3K lb. high-performance sports-GT is eminently doable if the manufacturer so chooses.

 

The new Viper track pak weighs 3290lbs without an ALUMINUM frame. and a V10.

 

But, does it have to be "either-or?" NO, NO, NO...

3K lbs. does not have to be small or cramped or noisy or slow. I sat in one of those BRZ's recently. Great seats and driving position (R&T agrees by the way), great roominess (5" longer WB than C4, 1" narrower, 15" less total overhang), nice vision, 2,800 lbs. Everything I read about it suggests the basic platform is pretty good. Now, remove the rear seat and make it a hatch, invest in lighter components (e.g. CF bits, aluminum frame, etc) and spend a few more $$$ and 200 lbs. on a decent V8, better brakes and slightly fatter tires (get the tire patch/weight ratio the same as the C7, perhaps?) Why would that not be doable for $55K ($28K more than the BRZ)? And, it need not be noisy. The BRZ tested exact same dB levels as the Z06 per R&T.

I suspect that the Vette will continue to be the best performance/style/comfort bargain out there. So, well-done GM

But, based on early reports, it could have been much better -- and I am not buying the excuses...

 

 

i am a track and autocross instructor for a bunch of organizations, and have driven a few examples of almost everything.

my experience with the elise was not that the handling was terrible, just not my style.

they had no torque so the handling was numb, and you had to be real nice or the front would wash out on too much or too little gas or brake.

i don't like to be nice.

the car tracks around with a low slip angle in the front, and almost zero slip angle in the rear, real well. but that is not how i prefer to drive... a good handling car with appropriate power can keep all 4 tires at the slip angle yielding the most total grip almost the entire way around a tight track. a c5z06 can do that in autocross. an early c4 with some power can do that. some 911's and rx7's with a few suspension tweaks and some power can do that. a miata with power can do that (all subject to proper setup of course).

these are elite level handling cars. the thing that makes them elite are fundamental physics like weight distribution, roll axes, camber curves, etc., combined with proper tuning (shocks, bars, spring rates, etc.)

back on target, i know chevy is marketing to the daily driver crowd. i was just thinking with all the CTSV's and other options that the vette should remain a sports car.

it will have some outstanding attributes, but longevity, weight, and simplicity will not be among them.

 

i am a track and autocross instructor for a bunch of organizations, and have driven a few examples of almost everything.

my experience with the elise was not that the handling was terrible, just not my style.

they had no torque so the handling was numb, and you had to be real nice or the front would wash out on too much or too little gas or brake.

i don't like to be nice.

the car tracks around with a low slip angle in the front, and almost zero slip angle in the rear, real well. but that is not how i prefer to drive... a good handling car with appropriate power can keep all 4 tires at the slip angle yielding the most total grip almost the entire way around a tight track. a c5z06 can do that in autocross. an early c4 with some power can do that. some 911's and rx7's with a few suspension tweaks and some power can do that. a miata with power can do that (all subject to proper setup of course).

these are elite level handling cars. the thing that makes them elite are fundamental physics like weight distribution, roll axes, camber curves, etc., combined with proper tuning (shocks, bars, spring rates, etc.)

back on target, i know chevy is marketing to the daily driver crowd. i was just thinking with all the CTSV's and other options that the vette should remain a sports car.

it will have some outstanding attributes, but longevity, light weight, and simplicity will not be among them.


i personally was hoping for a sub 100 wheelbase, sub 165 inch, sub 70 inch wide, sub 2800 lb corvette, with 100% permanently and fully disableable nannies, and fully segregated plug and play modules for longevity and simplicity.

 

Not sure what you mean by this? In my experience Corvettes are usually stone cold reliable, far more so than other sports cars.

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Corvettes were very reliable. C3 the vaccuum crap was garbage and the trailing arms a pain but the rest is a rock

C4 the headlights, some alternators, some small parts that they messed with when the accountants took over in the 80's. but the drivetrain and suspension are great.

C5's mechanically very reliable. Mechanically brilliant. But Bcm's fail. And that is the hint. The electronics are the problem.

The c6 same thing.

The problem will be down the road keeping all the wiring and modules working and diagnosing problems across multiple communicating modules sometimes even sending multiple signals across the same wires. Making matters worse, these modules are interspersed up under the dash in the most difficult areas of the car to reach for repairs.

Gm electronics are better than most competitors, but electronics are fundamentally unreliable long term. Doesnt matter what. Gunsights. Car modules. Sattelites. The failures are always in the electronics.

 

From Car and Driver Lighting laps actual weight data ..

( 2013 LL ) 911 Carrara S 3380lbs, Boxster S 3217 lbs, italia 458 3358 lbs

( 2011 LL ) Z06 3264 lbs, ( 2009 LL) GS 3329 lbs

Cheers

 

Compared to R&T, C&D must have employed some hefty test drivers in 2013