A breath of fresh air! Wisdom from a Big Blue Ox,,,well maybe not big.
Maybe you and I are hanging around this crummy thread to much..

It is really boring. But some of the post are beyond bizarre

 

No, the real point to be taken is: What did the drivers say about the seats?

G2 tires show much more aggressive treadblocks than the M3's PS2s.


Sometimes, there's not very much grooving at all


Where did the Porsche 911 finish in the ratings of that test you referenced?

 

LMAO...you keep clinging to that hollow, worthless victory if it makes you feel better.
On the street, where most head to head comparisons take place, the M3 will get its *** kicked by the Boss. It would be lucky to even stay next to a plain Jane GT.
Compared to nearly any real 2+2 sports coupe, the M3 is a loser. The GT-R will absolutely humiliate it. The C63 donkey punches it and the RS5 outclasses it. The CTS-V makes it its bitch. The aforementioned GT500 and ZL1, on the street, would be make the M3 a speck in the rearview mirror. If I were in an M3, I'd drive around those cars like I had a bowl of goldfish on the front seat. But hey...it's got great seats.
Maybe you should turn the discussion to more "relevant" specs...like rear seat leg room, or the trunk opening dimensions.
S.

 

So now you are talking straight-line performance? Because I can't recall any test where an RS5 or CTS-V beat the M3 in a same-day test on a twisty circuit. I'm almost inclined to call it a "road course," but we know they bear very little relation to real-world roads. GT500 is fine until the road curves and it experiences bumps that upset that live axle. Then you're still left without all the amenities of the M3.
How many GT500s/ZL1s are they making? And what are your personal best lap times in your bone stock street car, and on which track?

 

Didn't you just state that where they "spend 99.9% of their driving time (on public roads)" is the barometer? So which one is it? When the M3 is slower on the track, it's about the street. When it's slower on the street, it's about the track? Or am I missing something...during the 99.9% time the cars are on the street are they racing on twisty roads?
What "amenities" does the M3 have that make up for it being so slow? Maybe pull down window shades to hide the driver's embarrassment would be good.
Tell you what, if you're on the east coast we can arrange to run one of my GT500's against you M3 on a track. I won't offer one of the GT-R's, because your M3 isn't even in the same zip code as those cars.
And who cares how many GT500's or ZL1's they are making?
S.

 

What a pathetic question. This has nothing whatsoever to do with the thread.

 

My point is when these cars are used, they sure as hell aren't being raced to 10/10ths for anything much more than .1% of the time. Meaning other factors that make a good car good should be considered. You think 1% of M3 buyers spend even 1% of their driving time racing other cars? Or even GT500 drivers, for that matter?

How about a properly working IRS that smothers bumps that the GT500 would trip over? How about dynamic cornering lights? Dual zone climate controls that divide between even uper and lower zones? Power-folding side mirrors? For safety, how about side curtain airbags? In the convertible, how about a power folding hardtop? There's no shade for what you're asking (most M3 buyers aren't likely to be embarassed, since they certainly have the funds to buy a Mustang), but if you want, you can have shades for the rear passenger side windows, and even the rear window:
If you want wood, you can have that. If you want textured leather, you cave that. If you want piano black, you can have that. If you want aluminum, there's two finishes to choose from. And that's not even dipping into the Individual catalog, which is growing rapidly in popularity.

So basically, you don't have that information. Just as I thought.
You can bet Ford and GM cares. Do you think they'd even try to make such a car if no one was there to buy it? A few seconds on a track vs millions in revenue and cars out on the road as rolling advertisements...shouldn't take too long to figure out who is the winner there.

 

Sure it does. We're debating about the importance of 10/10ths outright performance, as if that's all that matters in these cars, which some people seem to think it does.

 

I spend quite a bit of time racing my GT500's and GT-R's, so you don't race your M3? Are you a magazine racer?
Since you like magazine racing, let's look at independently achieved lap times for the M3 and the GT500 and ZL1, since the track is now so important to you.
M3: 1:42.96
http://www.bimmerboost.com/content.p...a-Seca!&page=2
GT500: 1:38.68
ZL1: 1:39.18
http://www.motortrend.com/roadtests/.../photo_49.html
Over 4-seconds on a short track like Laguna...that's an ***-kicking, lol. On the finish line straight...the GT500 is pulling away from the M3 like it's standing still, so is the ZL1.

But hey, if the GT500 doesn't have the optional Recaros, the M3 might have better seats.
Are you seriously bragging about cornering lamps? The E55 I bought back in '06 had them. Before that, about 20-years ago, I had a Thunderbird Super Coupe that had them. I failed to see the benefit.
So basically, you're claiming the M3 is a better car because it has a bunch of options that are basically useless to a real enthusiast who is actually going to drive the car hard. Great position.
And FYI, a well-optioned GT500 is about as much as a well-optioned M3...since you think owning a BMW 3-series is so exclusive and all.
Who said I didn't have it? I said "who cares".
I believe Ford built 4,885 '13 GT500's. I don't follow ZL1 numbers, but think they are around 3,000 for MY'13. There are some '13 GT500's still available, but would expect that Ford has sold ~4500 of them so far.
I fail to see how sales volumes mean anything, but you just keep at it, you're doing so well thus far.

So are you on the east coast? I'd love for you to put your M3 on the track against one of my cars.
S.

 

BTW...my Taurus SHO has a rear window shade. It's so exclusive!
S.

 

No it does not. The thread is about this:
Where the **** does anybody's "personal best lap times in their bone stock street car, and on which track" have to do with C7 competition. You are a boorish tool just arguing to argue, as always.

I wish everybody on here, including me, would add you to their ignore list. Then you could sit in the corner and play your mental games with yourself!

 

Did I stumble upon the resident CF troll, who thinks he's something "special" because he bought a 2-year old M3 with piano black interior wood and a rear sunshade?
S.

 

Apparently you did...

 

Everybody just needs to understand that Guibo and Notch - aka Guibotch - hold Euro cars in general, and Porsche in particular on pedestals above Corvette.

Any suggestion by anybody that Corvette is a superior machine to any of them - P cars in particular - will cause him/her to prattle on ad infinitum.

It's amusingly predictable. It does wreck more than a few threads tho.

 

 

I thought they were the F1 supercars not the ones that lost out to the Supersports! And I didn't check out the seat issue with the Camaro, but, I did talk to a friend at the gym who had a M3 and loved his racing seat that didn't smash him up against his side window!

Anyway, yes the 911S (finally a miracle) is what I really think has a target on it!

 

I love BMW's. I'll be buying a 5 series soon.

However, didn't a stock run of the mill mustang GT run nearly identical times as an M3 on some road course during a test?

The V8 in that car is kind of weak, IIRC. A stock, woefully outdated GTO is quicker.

 

20,600 m (67,600 ft)

7:37.9

991 Porsche 911 Carrera S

Timo Kluck

28 August 2012

Official Porsche video,[34] PDK transmission used

The C7 will beat this at a MIN!

 

Well I am not convinced that it will at this point. I surely will be positively surprised when it does If they had brought the grand sport to ring, we would know how wide the gap must be between C6 and C7.

 

I believe you are WAY too optimistic and I would be very surprised if it even matched that time because that is a tough time to beat. The 991 911S is a VERY fast track car and I will be surprised if the C7 Z51 is as fast. I hope it does and will be very happy if it does because that will be a very capable performance!! In fact, that time is as fast as tested times for the Ferrari 458 and a Z06 (a Z06 on slicks was faster). I will be surprised (in a good way) if the C7 can match that time.

EDIT:

In retrospect, when looking at 'Ring times below, my opinion is the C7 does NOT hit a 7:37 like the 991 Porsche (but who the heck knows ). I think it will take a C7 Z06 to do that. A C6 Z51 ran the 'Ring in 7:59 therefore my guess is 7:45 to 7:50 for the C7. But, hey, if it did match the 991 it would be simply outstanding!!

I am hugely excited for the C7 and expect very impressive things but to beat a 991 Porsche 911S 'Ring time and to be in the middle of a group of super cars is beyond even my lofty expectations. Again, the Z06/ZR1 variants... for sure... but the C7 Z51... no way IMO (with a faint hope I'm wrong ).

7:19.63 Chevrolet Corvette C6 ZR1 (2012) DOT competition tires <-- tires being hugely relevant in lap times
7:22.68 Chevrolet Corvette C6 Z06 (2012) DOT competition tires
7:24 Porsche 911 GT2 RS
7:24.22 Nissan GT-R (2011) Semi-wet conditions.
7:26.4 Chevrolet Corvette C6 ZR1 (2009)
7:28.0 Porsche Carrera GT
7:32.92 Ferrari 458 Italia Sascha Bert
7:33 Porsche 911 GT3 RS 997MkII
7:37.9 991 Porsche 911 Carrera S
7:38 Lexus LFA
7:38 Ferrari 458 Italia
7:39 Porsche 911 Turbo (2010)
7:40 Lamborghini Murcielago LP640