C7 makes C6 obsolete
Race Director
Joined: Aug 2004
Posts: 15,316
Likes: 2,266
From: NorCal
Well, then all he has to do is to DISCLOSE these numbers, right? Is the concept of backing up your claims too hard to grasp for you and him? He and his team work for all these years and now, less than 5 months before the car goes on sale, they cannot even disclose the weight and horsepower/torque of the new car? Maybe Tadge can have another slip of his tongue and instead of announcing obsolescense of the car that is currently being sold, throw in a few numbers? Hmmm.... If this happens, you can count on my forgiveness for sure.
Taking things on faith works in religious circles, hopefully this is not one of them.
Taking things on faith works in religious circles, hopefully this is not one of them.Why do we get generalizations and not specifics?
Drifting
Joined: Nov 2012
Posts: 1,331
Likes: 2
We know the LT1 takes the LS2 and LS3 out back and bends them over throughout the driving range. It's not as peaky which means it's much quicker from a dig, or from a incredibly slow speed corner, all other things being equal. Not only this, but assuming ''worst case'' and the engine ''only'' makes 450 horse power it's also stronger at peak than the LS2 and LS3 are.
We know the frame is worlds beyond the C6 and C5s framer rigidity.
We also know the frame is substantially lighter (100 lbs or so from what I remember), while being 17 percent stiffer.
We know the suspension parts are also lighter through the use of tubular control arms etc vs cast which drops unsprung weight. Even at a savings of 5 lbs per suspension arm, that's huge. Ever put lighter weight rims on your car? Ever notice how much easier the car becomes to drive at the limit? 5lbs of unsprung weight is like taking 20lbs out somewhere else as far as handling is concerned.
We know the car will have a lower center of gravity due to fiber glass being replaced with carbon fiber, on the hood and roof panels. Carbon fiber clocks in at 1/3 the weight of fiber glass. Those hood and roof panels are much heavier than you think they are. To take an example, the C4's hood weighs in at a beastly 75lbs. A carbon fiber hood can weigh in as little as 25 lbs and still be safe for street use. (ie being washed, and waxed by heavy hands, take shots from rocks etc) on the same car.
If you had to make me guesstimate the weight of a C6 hood based on it's size vs that of the C4s I'd say it's weight is probably around 40 to 50 lbs. That's a pretty big savings there, by going to carbon fiber.
Now what about over all weight?
We all know that at this point minor weight gains are offset by advancements in chassis. If that were not the case we'd all be worshiping the L88 C2 Stripper Cars as still the fastest things around. But we aren't. (a scant 3000lbs, with 475 horse power, and gobs more torque, than even the modern LS9) Instead, the C4 can take one out back and beat it silly around a road course, let alone what more modern vettes do to the L88 car.
Now I know that might not ''seem'' like a lot of savings until you note weight distribution as well. 35 lbs off of a C4 (or really any of the vettes that came off) in one location is equivalent to taking off 1 percent of weight distribution. Which also makes an incredible difference in a given car's handling capabilities particularly at the limits.
In the case of the Vette that means it will want to plow the corners less due to more % being towards the rear of the car.
It also will want to roll less, and consequently put less wear and tear on the suspension and brakes due to the center of gravity being lowered.
It's -where- the added weight matters the most in terms of weight gain as well. As long as any added weight doesn't come high in the car, or at the springs, it can actually be of a benefit. And even there the rules don't apply. A c4 with some form of T bar, and roll bar is a much stiffer and faster car than one that doesn't have either. Despite being heavier -and- with a higher center of gravity.
Now lets hit up the brakes.
Look we all know the standard brakes on a vette are only good for a few really really hard laps. The new brakes are larger than the GS's where it counts in the form of swept area. Larger pads. The calipers themselves I remember reading somewhere are also more rigid. That means less deflection on braking, which means more consistent stops, and generally a less terrifying experience once the brakes heat up.
Tires: Face it, the C6 from the factory's worst aspect were the Crapyear tires (and every Vette since the C4 really). This is the single largest upgrade. New to New (2013 vs 2014), the C7 has a tremendous advantage here. Crapyears suck Michelins? Not so much seeing as how everyone who is serious about throwing down hero laps in their sports and super cars these days breaks out the Michelins to the preference of whatever else is out there.
Good year isn't even a Tier 3 tire as far as high performance capability goes. They are generally considered bottom of the barrel for performance because their handling characteristics, wear, and driver feel are atrocious.
I know "but I can upgrade the brakes and tires on my C6!" Yes you can. But unless you're willing to shell out mega bucks you can't overcome changes in suspension geometry, you'll have to track down someone making tubular constructed suspension goodies, upgrade the engine substantially, and we haven't even gotten started on the creature comfort side of things yet like the terrible interior that the base C6, C5 and C4 had. (And some how the C4 had the best interior of the 3 most recent vettes. Someone should feel bad, because I call it's interior a joke next to my optioned up 86 Z28)
And we -know- there will be substantial geometry changes, a little change here and there means alot, even something as little as an 1/8 of an inch can be a big difference around the track and on the road. That's something else in the C7s favor. Ask anyone that has driven a roided up C4, vs a C5 as to what kind of difference suspension geometry makes. Almost universally, unless they are in hard denial the C4 feels worse, even after mods like bigger sway bars, new bilsteins, heim joints, tubular control arms etc, it's just not as planted as a C5/C6. Nothing wrong with that really it's the difference in Technology and Engineering that derives from that advancement in tech.
That's -what we know- so far.
Even if the C7 weighs in at 3300lbs, it's still a dramatic improvement.
If you think adding weight some how always results in ruining the car, drive an LT4 C4 sometime, and then drive an 84 Z51. there was almost a full 100lb gain in weight through the C4s life span. And much of that was due to chassis rigidity because at some point the engineers realized that yes, weight looks good on paper but it doesn't mean jack if the car rattles like crazy, can't grip over uneven pavement, or can't have the doors and hood open with the top off at the same time.
Heavier does not mean slower, necessarily. You can see this time and time again throughout just GM engineered cars, cornering grip of the SS Crapmaro vs the Almost Not Joke ZL1 proves that one, the C4 reaffirms it. The ZR1 vs early ZO6, drives it home spectacularly as well.
Last edited by Aaron Keating; Mar 20, 2013 at 01:12 PM.
Le Mans Master
Joined: Aug 2009
Posts: 5,504
Likes: 2
From: Sacramento California
Lets start then with what we do know.
We know the LT1 takes the LS2 and LS3 out back and bends them over throughout the driving range. It's not as peaky which means it's much quicker from a dig, or from a incredibly slow speed corner, all other things being equal. Not only this, but assuming ''worst case'' and the engine ''only'' makes 450 horse power it's also stronger at peak than the LS2 and LS3 are.
We know the frame is worlds beyond the C6 and C5s framer rigidity.
We also know the frame is substantially lighter (100 lbs or so from what I remember), while being 17 percent stiffer.
We know the suspension parts are also lighter through the use of tubular control arms etc vs cast which drops unsprung weight. Even at a savings of 5 lbs per suspension arm, that's huge. Ever put lighter weight rims on your car? Ever notice how much easier the car becomes to drive at the limit? 5lbs of unsprung weight is like taking 20lbs out somewhere else as far as handling is concerned.
We know the car will have a lower center of gravity due to fiber glass being replaced with carbon fiber, on the hood and roof panels. Carbon fiber clocks in at 1/3 the weight of fiber glass. Those hood and roof panels are much heavier than you think they are. To take an example, the C4's hood weighs in at a beastly 75lbs. A carbon fiber hood can weigh in as little as 25 lbs and still be safe for street use. (ie being washed, and waxed by heavy hands, take shots from rocks etc) on the same car.
If you had to make me guesstimate the weight of a C6 hood based on it's size vs that of the C4s I'd say it's weight is probably around 40 to 50 lbs. That's a pretty big savings there, by going to carbon fiber.
Now what about over all weight?
We all know that at this point minor weight gains are offset by advancements in chassis. If that were not the case we'd all be worshiping the L88 C2 Stripper Cars as still the fastest things around. But we aren't. (a scant 3000lbs, with 475 horse power, and gobs more torque, than even the modern LS9) Instead, the C4 can take one out back and beat it silly around a road course, let alone what more modern vettes do to the L88 car.
Now I know that might not ''seem'' like a lot of savings until you note weight distribution as well. 35 lbs off of a C4 (or really any of the vettes that came off) in one location is equivalent to taking off 1 percent of weight distribution. Which also makes an incredible difference in a given car's handling capabilities particularly at the limits.
In the case of the Vette that means it will want to plow the corners less due to more % being towards the rear of the car.
It also will want to roll less, and consequently put less wear and tear on the suspension and brakes due to the center of gravity being lowered.
It's -where- the added weight matters the most in terms of weight gain as well. As long as any added weight doesn't come high in the car, or at the springs, it can actually be of a benefit. And even there the rules don't apply. A c4 with some form of T bar, and roll bar is a much stiffer and faster car than one that doesn't have either. Despite being heavier -and- with a higher center of gravity.
Now lets hit up the brakes.
Look we all know the standard brakes on a vette are only good for a few really really hard laps. The new brakes are larger than the GS's where it counts in the form of swept area. Larger pads. The calipers themselves I remember reading somewhere are also more rigid. That means less deflection on braking, which means more consistent stops, and generally a less terrifying experience once the brakes heat up.
Tires: Face it, the C6 from the factory's worst aspect were the Crapyear tires (and every Vette since the C4 really). This is the single largest upgrade. New to New (2013 vs 2014), the C7 has a tremendous advantage here. Crapyears suck Michelins? Not so much seeing as how everyone who is serious about throwing down hero laps in their sports and super cars these days breaks out the Michelins to the preference of whatever else is out there.
Good year isn't even a Tier 3 tire as far as high performance capability goes. They are generally considered bottom of the barrel for performance because their handling characteristics, wear, and driver feel are atrocious.
I know "but I can upgrade the brakes and tires on my C6!" Yes you can. But unless you're willing to shell out mega bucks you can't overcome changes in suspension geometry, you'll have to track down someone making tubular constructed suspension goodies, upgrade the engine substantially, and we haven't even gotten started on the creature comfort side of things yet like the terrible interior that the base C6, C5 and C4 had. (And some how the C4 had the best interior of the 3 most recent vettes. Someone should feel bad, because I call it's interior a joke next to my optioned up 86 Z28)
That's -what we know- so far.
Even if the C7 weighs in at 3300lbs, it's still a dramatic improvement.
If you think adding weight some how always results in ruining the car, drive an LT4 C4 sometime, and then drive an 84 Z51. there was almost a full 100lb gain in weight through the C4s life span. And much of that was due to chassis rigidity because at some point the engineers realized that yes, weight looks good on paper but it doesn't mean jack if the car rattles like crazy, can't grip over uneven pavement, or can't have the doors and hood open with the top off at the same time.
Heavier does not mean slower, necessarily. You can see this time and time again throughout just GM engineered cars, cornering grip of the SS Crapmaro vs the Almost Not Joke ZL1 proves that one, the C4 reaffirms it. The ZR1 vs early ZO6, drives it home spectacularly as well.
We know the LT1 takes the LS2 and LS3 out back and bends them over throughout the driving range. It's not as peaky which means it's much quicker from a dig, or from a incredibly slow speed corner, all other things being equal. Not only this, but assuming ''worst case'' and the engine ''only'' makes 450 horse power it's also stronger at peak than the LS2 and LS3 are.
We know the frame is worlds beyond the C6 and C5s framer rigidity.
We also know the frame is substantially lighter (100 lbs or so from what I remember), while being 17 percent stiffer.
We know the suspension parts are also lighter through the use of tubular control arms etc vs cast which drops unsprung weight. Even at a savings of 5 lbs per suspension arm, that's huge. Ever put lighter weight rims on your car? Ever notice how much easier the car becomes to drive at the limit? 5lbs of unsprung weight is like taking 20lbs out somewhere else as far as handling is concerned.
We know the car will have a lower center of gravity due to fiber glass being replaced with carbon fiber, on the hood and roof panels. Carbon fiber clocks in at 1/3 the weight of fiber glass. Those hood and roof panels are much heavier than you think they are. To take an example, the C4's hood weighs in at a beastly 75lbs. A carbon fiber hood can weigh in as little as 25 lbs and still be safe for street use. (ie being washed, and waxed by heavy hands, take shots from rocks etc) on the same car.
If you had to make me guesstimate the weight of a C6 hood based on it's size vs that of the C4s I'd say it's weight is probably around 40 to 50 lbs. That's a pretty big savings there, by going to carbon fiber.
Now what about over all weight?
We all know that at this point minor weight gains are offset by advancements in chassis. If that were not the case we'd all be worshiping the L88 C2 Stripper Cars as still the fastest things around. But we aren't. (a scant 3000lbs, with 475 horse power, and gobs more torque, than even the modern LS9) Instead, the C4 can take one out back and beat it silly around a road course, let alone what more modern vettes do to the L88 car.
Now I know that might not ''seem'' like a lot of savings until you note weight distribution as well. 35 lbs off of a C4 (or really any of the vettes that came off) in one location is equivalent to taking off 1 percent of weight distribution. Which also makes an incredible difference in a given car's handling capabilities particularly at the limits.
In the case of the Vette that means it will want to plow the corners less due to more % being towards the rear of the car.
It also will want to roll less, and consequently put less wear and tear on the suspension and brakes due to the center of gravity being lowered.
It's -where- the added weight matters the most in terms of weight gain as well. As long as any added weight doesn't come high in the car, or at the springs, it can actually be of a benefit. And even there the rules don't apply. A c4 with some form of T bar, and roll bar is a much stiffer and faster car than one that doesn't have either. Despite being heavier -and- with a higher center of gravity.
Now lets hit up the brakes.
Look we all know the standard brakes on a vette are only good for a few really really hard laps. The new brakes are larger than the GS's where it counts in the form of swept area. Larger pads. The calipers themselves I remember reading somewhere are also more rigid. That means less deflection on braking, which means more consistent stops, and generally a less terrifying experience once the brakes heat up.
Tires: Face it, the C6 from the factory's worst aspect were the Crapyear tires (and every Vette since the C4 really). This is the single largest upgrade. New to New (2013 vs 2014), the C7 has a tremendous advantage here. Crapyears suck Michelins? Not so much seeing as how everyone who is serious about throwing down hero laps in their sports and super cars these days breaks out the Michelins to the preference of whatever else is out there.
Good year isn't even a Tier 3 tire as far as high performance capability goes. They are generally considered bottom of the barrel for performance because their handling characteristics, wear, and driver feel are atrocious.
I know "but I can upgrade the brakes and tires on my C6!" Yes you can. But unless you're willing to shell out mega bucks you can't overcome changes in suspension geometry, you'll have to track down someone making tubular constructed suspension goodies, upgrade the engine substantially, and we haven't even gotten started on the creature comfort side of things yet like the terrible interior that the base C6, C5 and C4 had. (And some how the C4 had the best interior of the 3 most recent vettes. Someone should feel bad, because I call it's interior a joke next to my optioned up 86 Z28)
That's -what we know- so far.
Even if the C7 weighs in at 3300lbs, it's still a dramatic improvement.
If you think adding weight some how always results in ruining the car, drive an LT4 C4 sometime, and then drive an 84 Z51. there was almost a full 100lb gain in weight through the C4s life span. And much of that was due to chassis rigidity because at some point the engineers realized that yes, weight looks good on paper but it doesn't mean jack if the car rattles like crazy, can't grip over uneven pavement, or can't have the doors and hood open with the top off at the same time.
Heavier does not mean slower, necessarily. You can see this time and time again throughout just GM engineered cars, cornering grip of the SS Crapmaro vs the Almost Not Joke ZL1 proves that one, the C4 reaffirms it. The ZR1 vs early ZO6, drives it home spectacularly as well.
a dyno printout, scale readout, skidpad measurement and ET slip. I know, details, details. I do love the notion that even if the new car is heavier than the old one, it will carry its weight better and move faster.
Le Mans Master
Joined: Sep 2007
Posts: 5,526
Likes: 16
From: Mechanicsburg Pennsylvania
Tadge wrote up my deposit on my C7 Did you get a receipt or just trust him implicitly
......I will tell you he is like George Washington....he cannot tell a lie. Same thing happened to Jim Carrey in Liar, Liar - hysterical
Also, how many salesmen are Chief Engineers? In today's economy and employment situation, lots
That Tadge is something special I tell ya Something Special is also the title of a Dolly Parton album - now THERE'S something special
......Best salesman ever.........He actually knows what he is talking about
......I will tell you he is like George Washington....he cannot tell a lie. Same thing happened to Jim Carrey in Liar, Liar - hysterical
Also, how many salesmen are Chief Engineers? In today's economy and employment situation, lots
That Tadge is something special I tell ya Something Special is also the title of a Dolly Parton album - now THERE'S something special
......Best salesman ever.........He actually knows what he is talking about
Race Director
Joined: Jan 2000
Posts: 12,375
Likes: 406
From: Florida
Hasn't stopped companies from making wild assertions about their cars before - Nissan / GTR being a perfect example. Corvette team is more truthful in this respect, but there is still plenty of BS and use of selective statistics to go around. They are in the business of selling cars, after all.
Melting Slicks
Joined: Oct 2012
Posts: 3,424
Likes: 461
From: Long Island New York
.....but I got an autographed C6 427 poster for an extra 3 grand
.........when I looked closer it was signed by petermjI want my 3G's back Pete!!
Burning Brakes
Joined: May 2005
Posts: 1,096
Likes: 36
From: Coldville
I wouldn't say he lost it, just what the owners will be thinking when they finally take delivery. That's what new cars are suppose to do. C4 got its clock cleaned by the C5, then the C5's lunch was eaten by the C6. C6 is up on deck to be yesteryear's Corvette and the spring board to the next great Vette.
If people take offense to this, they shouldn't wear their feelings on their sleeves. Him saying that would not stop me from picking up a C6 if I truly loved that generation the most. Newer cars may make the older one obsolete from a technological standpoint but it does not take away from their greatness, but that's just me.
Though to be fair, I suppose F430 owners displayed similar reactions towards the new 458 Italia.
If people take offense to this, they shouldn't wear their feelings on their sleeves. Him saying that would not stop me from picking up a C6 if I truly loved that generation the most. Newer cars may make the older one obsolete from a technological standpoint but it does not take away from their greatness, but that's just me.
Though to be fair, I suppose F430 owners displayed similar reactions towards the new 458 Italia.
Im still driving my Obsolete C4 and its fun
Next week she will be out to stretch her legs if it ever warms up in this god for saken ice berg they call Minnesota
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Drifting
Joined: Nov 2012
Posts: 1,331
Likes: 2
We -know- the car has at least 24 more horse power, and more than 30lbs of torque more. Which well exceeds the old maxim of "100 lbs = 10 horsepower''.
We know, that with the more grippy rubber, more ponies, and around 100lb weight difference (which can also make the car hook better depending on exact distribution) it likely will be a good bit quicker than a GS. (I'mma guess a 2 tenths improvement in the 1/4 mile, easy)
We know the Crapyears have been shot in the face and put to bed (finally), cornering grip will be much better on a skidpad, and more importantly over dynamic road surfaces (polite way of saying *****y Roads).
There's enough proven time and time again, to say safely the car is better than the C6. After all if the C6 were the best thing out there handling wise from GM they wouldn't have made such huge alterations to the framework, when they made the Z06
. 16 year old chassis. That's not bad, hell that's phenomenal when you think about it. GM stretched it 16 years, and beat the world, and still is competitive with it. But I think they've not only hit the point beyond saturation of C6s on the market, but also the wall as far as chassis engineering goes on the C6 platform. I don't think GM could wring anything more out of the C6 as far as handling goes, now that Michilens are on their faster cars (ZO6 and ZR1 and GS optional). They already slapped heim joints in, various structural reinforcements, alterations to the sway bars in terms of size etc.
Thread Starter
AIR FORCE VETERAN
Joined: Nov 2009
Posts: 6,223
Likes: 441
From: Pennsylvania
Aaron,
Nice job presenting your position.. As I stated in my OP the quote was about technology not the design of the body. C6's are classic designs in their own right. When I posted this thread I did it quickly so someone else would not spin the quote and make it ugly. I watched the video as well. Tadge was clearly talking about the operating systems between C6 and C7. Not the physical designs of the two cars. Both generations, like all Corvette generations, have a beauty of their own. IMHO..
Nice job presenting your position.. As I stated in my OP the quote was about technology not the design of the body. C6's are classic designs in their own right. When I posted this thread I did it quickly so someone else would not spin the quote and make it ugly. I watched the video as well. Tadge was clearly talking about the operating systems between C6 and C7. Not the physical designs of the two cars. Both generations, like all Corvette generations, have a beauty of their own. IMHO..
Le Mans Master
Joined: Aug 2009
Posts: 5,504
Likes: 2
From: Sacramento California
Hasn't stopped companies from making wild assertions about their cars before - Nissan / GTR being a perfect example. Corvette team is more truthful in this respect, but there is still plenty of BS and use of selective statistics to go around. They are in the business of selling cars, after all.
Drifting
Joined: Nov 2012
Posts: 1,331
Likes: 2
Yeah I had to lube the hinges when I got the car. I actually started working out heavily again (instead of just keeping the flab off) just incase I end up having to push the hood up the hard way again
Thanks.
I thought the context was there, (I watched the vid after I posted in this thread) too.
When you think about it it's pretty simple. I mean really look how far engines have come in 16 years. People don't realize it, but chassis design has come equally as far, if not farther in the last 16 years. In 1997 a hot rod Corvette had 375 horse power. Now, a -base- model has 436. And soon 450.
Why people get so crazy about the chassis of the car advancing I dunno but there it is heh.
Aaron,
Nice job presenting your position.. As I stated in my OP the quote was about technology not the design of the body. C6's are classic designs in their own right. When I posted this thread I did it quickly so someone else would not spin the quote and make it ugly. I watched the video as well. Tadge was clearly talking about the operating systems between C6 and C7. Not the physical designs of the two cars. Both generations, like all Corvette generations, have a beauty of their own. IMHO..
Nice job presenting your position.. As I stated in my OP the quote was about technology not the design of the body. C6's are classic designs in their own right. When I posted this thread I did it quickly so someone else would not spin the quote and make it ugly. I watched the video as well. Tadge was clearly talking about the operating systems between C6 and C7. Not the physical designs of the two cars. Both generations, like all Corvette generations, have a beauty of their own. IMHO..
I thought the context was there, (I watched the vid after I posted in this thread) too.
When you think about it it's pretty simple. I mean really look how far engines have come in 16 years. People don't realize it, but chassis design has come equally as far, if not farther in the last 16 years. In 1997 a hot rod Corvette had 375 horse power. Now, a -base- model has 436. And soon 450.
Why people get so crazy about the chassis of the car advancing I dunno but there it is heh.
Le Mans Master
Joined: Aug 2009
Posts: 5,504
Likes: 2
From: Sacramento California
Le Mans Master
Joined: Aug 2009
Posts: 5,504
Likes: 2
From: Sacramento California
We can take some educated guesses based on the car's ''worst case'' out put, and most of the more sane conservative weight estimates out there. (by the way I've seen almost as many 3100 lb estimates out there as 3300lb ones. I've seen outliers on either end like 3000 and 3400 but I doubt either is the case, given everything we know so far)
We -know- the car has at least 24 more horse power, and more than 30lbs of torque more. Which well exceeds the old maxim of "100 lbs = 10 horsepower''.
We know, that with the more grippy rubber, more ponies, and around 100lb weight difference (which can also make the car hook better depending on exact distribution) it likely will be a good bit quicker than a GS. (I'mma guess a 2 tenths improvement in the 1/4 mile, easy)
We know the Crapyears have been shot in the face and put to bed (finally), cornering grip will be much better on a skidpad, and more importantly over dynamic road surfaces (polite way of saying *****y Roads).
There's enough proven time and time again, to say safely the car is better than the C6. After all if the C6 were the best thing out there handling wise from GM they wouldn't have made such huge alterations to the framework, when they made the Z06.
16 year old chassis. That's not bad, hell that's phenomenal when you think about it. GM stretched it 16 years, and beat the world, and still is competitive with it. But I think they've not only hit the point beyond saturation of C6s on the market, but also the wall as far as chassis engineering goes on the C6 platform. I don't think GM could wring anything more out of the C6 as far as handling goes, now that Michilens are on their faster cars (ZO6 and ZR1 and GS optional). They already slapped heim joints in, various structural reinforcements, alterations to the sway bars in terms of size etc.
We -know- the car has at least 24 more horse power, and more than 30lbs of torque more. Which well exceeds the old maxim of "100 lbs = 10 horsepower''.
We know, that with the more grippy rubber, more ponies, and around 100lb weight difference (which can also make the car hook better depending on exact distribution) it likely will be a good bit quicker than a GS. (I'mma guess a 2 tenths improvement in the 1/4 mile, easy)
We know the Crapyears have been shot in the face and put to bed (finally), cornering grip will be much better on a skidpad, and more importantly over dynamic road surfaces (polite way of saying *****y Roads).
There's enough proven time and time again, to say safely the car is better than the C6. After all if the C6 were the best thing out there handling wise from GM they wouldn't have made such huge alterations to the framework, when they made the Z06
. 16 year old chassis. That's not bad, hell that's phenomenal when you think about it. GM stretched it 16 years, and beat the world, and still is competitive with it. But I think they've not only hit the point beyond saturation of C6s on the market, but also the wall as far as chassis engineering goes on the C6 platform. I don't think GM could wring anything more out of the C6 as far as handling goes, now that Michilens are on their faster cars (ZO6 and ZR1 and GS optional). They already slapped heim joints in, various structural reinforcements, alterations to the sway bars in terms of size etc.
After marketing hype begins and claims start coming in, there is a limited period of time before skepticism and doubts kick in and loss of credibility takes place. I suggest you have a serious talk about it with Tadge, surely you can explain this situation to him. Obviously Tadge did not get the memo on this subject.
Race Director
Joined: Aug 2004
Posts: 15,316
Likes: 2,266
From: NorCal
Le Mans Master
Joined: Aug 2009
Posts: 5,504
Likes: 2
From: Sacramento California
Then of course common sense kicked in and I did not buy one... I think I got Porsche 951 at that time...
Melting Slicks
Joined: Aug 2005
Posts: 2,873
Likes: 614
He's probably right. I have no reason to doubt Tadge.
It's not like he hasn't been on the Corvette team since the C4 was in still production. He helped develop the C6 into the performance world-beater. Do you think he's crazy to say that this car shouldn't improve on the C6 in just about every category?
The Porsche guys were and are still doing this with the 991 and its subsequent versions. Projecct manager says "THis car is much, much better than the last"
Everyone complains and whines about what features are taken away, what engines they stopped using, "oh they forgot about us", and guess what, the subsequent car is better at just about everything like they said it would be.
It's not like he hasn't been on the Corvette team since the C4 was in still production. He helped develop the C6 into the performance world-beater. Do you think he's crazy to say that this car shouldn't improve on the C6 in just about every category?
The Porsche guys were and are still doing this with the 991 and its subsequent versions. Projecct manager says "THis car is much, much better than the last"
Everyone complains and whines about what features are taken away, what engines they stopped using, "oh they forgot about us", and guess what, the subsequent car is better at just about everything like they said it would be.
Last edited by Kappa; Mar 20, 2013 at 01:57 PM.
Race Director
Joined: Aug 2004
Posts: 15,316
Likes: 2,266
From: NorCal
He's probably right. I have no reason to doubt Tadge.
It's not like he hasn't been on the Corvette team since the C4 was in still production. He helped develop the C6 into the performance world-beater. Do you think he's crazy to say that this car shouldn't improve on the C6 in just about every category?
The Porsche guys were and are still doing this with the 991 and its subsequent versions. Projecct manager says "THis car is much, much better than the last"
Everyone complains and whines about what features are taken away, what engines, they stopped using, "oh they forgot about us", and guess what, the subsequent car is better at just about everything like they said it would be.
It's not like he hasn't been on the Corvette team since the C4 was in still production. He helped develop the C6 into the performance world-beater. Do you think he's crazy to say that this car shouldn't improve on the C6 in just about every category?
The Porsche guys were and are still doing this with the 991 and its subsequent versions. Projecct manager says "THis car is much, much better than the last"
Everyone complains and whines about what features are taken away, what engines, they stopped using, "oh they forgot about us", and guess what, the subsequent car is better at just about everything like they said it would be.
I think we're all just impatient for the specifics related to performance. The more generalizations we hear, the more we want the details.Hmmm - maybe their marketing plan IS working......
Le Mans Master
Joined: Sep 2007
Posts: 5,526
Likes: 16
From: Mechanicsburg Pennsylvania
Well if you got the poster for just an additional $3k, I think you made a sweet deal !!! There is a very limited quantity of those C6 427 posters available you know - cuz the car is really obsolete