Except when you don't know the final C7 hp/torque numbers, of course. Or the weight. You also don't know how the eLSD will affect track times, how the tires will work, etc, etc. It also depends on WHAT Z06 you are talking about.

Surely you are aware that more hp doesn't necessarily mean faster, right?

 

You are asking if I can afford one? Just one? I could care less whether you believe this or not but I have enough just in my primary checking account to pay cash for at least 3.

I would like to correct you on something else. All cars are NOT worthless after they leave the retailer. You don't seem like an intelligent person just judging from the general foolish, insecure nature of your posts but I hope you were exaggerating.

 

This is very true. My 1996 M3 which was stripped and heavily modded for the track makes about 250HP and will run with stock Z06s all day on tight technical tracks. I'm not suggesting a modded vs unmodded debate is relevant... just that HP doesn't always win road course races.

Now, add a set of Rcomps to the Z06 or put the cars on tracks with long straights and we have a different story

 

Got it Stingray81.

 

And?

 

I always get a kick out of early ZO6 buyers that think all GM changed from their model to the last models was tire compound.

 

Again, where are you getting this information. I would definitely like to see it, as I'm sure so would the rest of this forum. You make a lot of bold claims that go against what GM has said and yet you don't want to back up any of your claims.

Denial at its finest.

 

Lets see...less HP, 99.9% sure heavier and thinner Michlines.

I dont see how the C7 has a chance in hell vs a 13 Z06!

 

But if we are wrong, wow... but I for one am not holding my breath. I do think it will be close though.

 

No, wow will be if it does not out perform the GS....with Michlines of course. I just happen to have said tires and a GS. Just need a driver now.

 

I fully expect the Z51 to out preform the GS and fall just short of the Z06.

 

You sure put a heck of a lot of weight on those tires... kind of like team Viper did re: the ZR1. But, at least then they were complaining about R compound tires and not one brand of max performance summers vs. a different brand of max performance summers

P.S. If that's how you define "wow" then there won't be a wow moment for you. For me, that's a given... "wow" will be matching a Z06 and I don't expect to be wowed but maybe I'll be wrong

 

These tires are amazing!

 

GM has already told us it will out perform the GS and is close to todays Z06. The big wow would be that they are lying....

 

Half truth sounds better!

 

To a small group on this forum anything but the truth sounds better...

 

What if LT1 cools better and makes just as much power as the LS7 when driven hard? From the get-go there are oil piston squirters and more material in the sleeves. What if it's far more knock resistant and can be tuned to much more power? Oiling could also be better such that a lighter wet sump system could work as well as the LS7s drysump. Then there is valveterrain stability, particularly lower temps on the exhaust valve would be nice.

C7s are also said to have electronic steering so more of the LT1s power can be put to the ground.

Engine performance has more than the two common dimensions: rpm x torque. That SAE article is not one dyno page.

 

Ain't that the truth. There's more denial on this forum then I can handle. It's turned this section in a circus.

I was thinking the same thing. It's not all about power and tire width. The ZR1 - for example - is an awesome car, but not one you can hot lap.

A motor may make a lot of power on a dyno, but how long will it continue to make that same amount of power when going up and down on load over and over? If you were to dyno an LS9 immediately before and immediately after running it on the Ring, do you think it's going to make exactly the same power each time?

Now sure, in a straight long on a drag strip the C7 isn't going to have a chance against a ZR1 and probably won't even come close to the '13 Z06. Power and torque will be everything there. But on the track, where all the components of the car take a serious beating, from the engine and transmission, to the suspension, diff and brakes, and of course (sigh) the tires, this is where the C7 will likely shine.

The eLSD and next-gen mag suspension is probably going to cut down track times by a significant margin. If it didn't, GM probably wouldn't have spent the money on it. After all, the performance gain from it had to be worth the cost and weight. GM spent a lot of money on aerodynamics research to prevent the C7 from needing MORE down force add-ons. By doing so, they reduce the weight of the car in many ways. More importantly, though, they give even the base model the majority of these down force characteristics.

You can complain that the base C7 comes with a better tire and say that the C7 doesn't have a chance if it wasn't for the tires, but the truth is that sounds like denial no matter what. You can put wider tires on the C7 far easier than you can put all the technological advancements of the C7 on a C6. The LT1 isn't going to be a direct swap (and likely won't be an easy one until the ECM is cracked). The LT4 will likely be the same story.

GM has fed us a lot of information as it is. They're going to going to get caught with their pants down.

I have a feeling that if you put the exact same width wheel and same compound tire on both the C7 Z51 and the C6 Z06, the results will be incredibly shocking. I would wager that the C7 Z51 will run the ring within 3 seconds of the C6 Z06.

If so, I'd be very happy with the C7's performance.


Oh, and Sam... I suggest you get used to not being king of the hill. While the '13 Z06 may be (and probably will be) faster than the C7 Z51, it's only a year or two before the next performance package comes out. And what are you going to say then?

My C5Z was king of the hill until the '06 Z06 came out. And then LS3 GS came out. The C6 Z06 was still the king of the hill, but to hold the 2nd place belt, it was a driver's race against the GS.

Progress happens. Get over it.

 

You can park the ZR1 in the sun and leave the engine running where it's 110F in the shade, at Pahrump Nevada. When you leave the classroom, you climb into the air conditioned ZR1, and head out onto the track for open lapping until your balaclava is drenched and your arms are about to fall off. When you come in, pull back into the line and leave it running, air cond on. Repeat throughout the day. That's Ron Fellow school at Spring Mountain. Just ask them if you can hot lap the LS9. They do it every day. Take one of the GS's and try to hang with with these ZR1's that have been heat soaking themselves to a standstill. You may be able to keep up with them, I did but it was a lot of work because they easily pull on the straights, and slow down better on the brakes. They also corner harder, have more grip. A good driver can keep up in a GS which feels lighter on the track, but an equal driver in the ZR1 can get away for good. Heat or no, it always fast.

 

Some food for thought as we wait for real info..

1) Why was their no mention of E85 or ethanol in the Gen V SAE tech paper? A 2010 GM press release stated that the Gen V engines were going to be E85 capable. The recent SAE paper covered all the Gen V engines, not just the LT1, and at least some of them should be designed to accept E85. Seems as if any mention of ethanol was scrubbed from the paper. Why ?

2) In Table 1, the L86 ( truck ) and LT1 are shown to have the same basic cam spec’s. WTF !

3) L88 - GM seems to reactivating this designation. How about an LT1 with titanium ( or better ) bits with better performance cam, 13:1 compression ( 91 octane min ), and no 4 cyl operation, and optimized E85 operation; prob 540 on gas and 600 on E85.

Cheers