Hard Data ....
Team Owner
Joined: Sep 1999
Posts: 41,732
Likes: 1,718
From: Springfield MO
Does make you wonder. If GM can release all those magical numbers to the SAE, why can't they release them to the general public(you know, the one's that will actually buy the car). I wonder how many C7's the SAE will buy, or for that matter, how many C7's will be purchased by SAE members? then I wonder how many C7's will be purchased by the general public, you know, the ones that are not SAE members.
Last edited by JoesC5; Apr 9, 2013 at 05:15 PM.
Thread Starter
Instructor
Joined: Nov 2001
Posts: 145
Likes: 38
From: Upper Marlboro MD
The graph has the power curves of the LT1 and LS3 superimposed, the grid is in 1000's of RPM and 10KW power increments .. so not exactly precise but close.
The exhaust system and octane used was not specified.
GM should have info soon for public consumption; paper is scheduled for next week; but SAE published early.
Cheers
The exhaust system and octane used was not specified.
GM should have info soon for public consumption; paper is scheduled for next week; but SAE published early.
Cheers
Drifting
Joined: Dec 2009
Posts: 1,404
Likes: 7
From: Malverne New York
Melting Slicks
Joined: Jun 2005
Posts: 2,216
Likes: 1
St. Jude Donor '12-'13-'14, '16
Does make you wonder. If GM can release all those magical numbers to the SAE, why can't they release them to the general public(you know, the one's that will actually buy the car). I wonder how many C7's the SAE will buy, or for that matter, how many C7's will be purchased by SAE members? then I wonder how many C7's will be purchased by the general public, you know, the ones that are not SAE members.
To tout power and torque ratings as "SAE-certified," engine manufacturers must have an SAE qualified witness watch over the entire testing procedure to ensure that it is conducted in conformity to SAE standard J1349. Third-party witnessing is the main provision of J2723. An existing SAE standard, J1349, spells out how the actual testing is to be done. J1349 was updated last year to eliminate some ambiguities that allowed engine makers to cite power and torque ratings higher than the engine's actual capabilities.
http://www.sae.org/certifiedpower/details.htm
Team Owner
Joined: Sep 1999
Posts: 41,732
Likes: 1,718
From: Springfield MO
The graph has the power curves of the LT1 and LS3 superimposed, the grid is in 1000's of RPM and 10KW power increments .. so not exactly precise but close.
The exhaust system and octane used was not specified.
GM should have info soon for public consumption; paper is scheduled for next week; but SAE published early.
Cheers
The exhaust system and octane used was not specified.
GM should have info soon for public consumption; paper is scheduled for next week; but SAE published early.
Cheers
Melting Slicks
Joined: Aug 2005
Posts: 2,874
Likes: 614
Does make you wonder. If GM can release all those magical numbers to the SAE, why can't they release them to the general public(you know, the one's that will actually buy the car). I wonder how many C7's the SAE will buy, or for that matter, how many C7's will be purchased by SAE members? then I wonder how many C7's will be purchased by the general public, you know, the ones that are not SAE members.
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Le Mans Master
Joined: Aug 2009
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From: Sacramento California
Team Owner
Joined: Sep 1999
Posts: 41,732
Likes: 1,718
From: Springfield MO
GM didn't release anything to SAE, SAE was there watching.
To tout power and torque ratings as "SAE-certified," engine manufacturers must have an SAE qualified witness watch over the entire testing procedure to ensure that it is conducted in conformity to SAE standard J1349. Third-party witnessing is the main provision of J2723. An existing SAE standard, J1349, spells out how the actual testing is to be done. J1349 was updated last year to eliminate some ambiguities that allowed engine makers to cite power and torque ratings higher than the engine's actual capabilities.
http://www.sae.org/certifiedpower/details.htm
To tout power and torque ratings as "SAE-certified," engine manufacturers must have an SAE qualified witness watch over the entire testing procedure to ensure that it is conducted in conformity to SAE standard J1349. Third-party witnessing is the main provision of J2723. An existing SAE standard, J1349, spells out how the actual testing is to be done. J1349 was updated last year to eliminate some ambiguities that allowed engine makers to cite power and torque ratings higher than the engine's actual capabilities.
http://www.sae.org/certifiedpower/details.htm
I didn't ask how the certification was done. I asked if the magical numbers the OP is saying appears in the SAE paper were SAE certified numbers(the numbers that will be advertised by GM).
I still haven't seen an answer to my question about the 7200 RPM horsepower readings that are supposed to be mentioned in the SAE paper. I know from the dyno graph that GM has released for the C7's LT1, that the redline is 6500 and the horsepower starts dropping at 5900 RPM and that the LT1's torque drops off faster than the LS3's(which indicates that the engine is not going to put out magical horsepower numbers at high RPMs, above the LS3's).
Team Owner
Joined: Sep 1999
Posts: 41,732
Likes: 1,718
From: Springfield MO
The witness watches the dyno pulls at the manufacturer's location, on the manufactures dyno cells, not a SAE dyno(which I doubt that they have) or the third party's dyno..
The third party witness is there to make sure the SAE protocol is adhered to and signs off if it was.
Melting Slicks
Joined: Nov 2009
Posts: 3,425
Likes: 14
Paper is DRM'ed had to give them my address and CC info for purchase...
THIS DOCUMENT IS PROTECTED BY U.S. AND INTERNATIONAL COPYRIGHT.
It may not be reproduced, stored in a retrieval system, distributed or transmitted, in whole or in part, in any form or by any means.
Downloaded from SAE International by Gary xxxx, Tuesday, April 09, 2013 11:51:50 AM
SAE is real picky about this..
THIS DOCUMENT IS PROTECTED BY U.S. AND INTERNATIONAL COPYRIGHT.
It may not be reproduced, stored in a retrieval system, distributed or transmitted, in whole or in part, in any form or by any means.
Downloaded from SAE International by Gary xxxx, Tuesday, April 09, 2013 11:51:50 AM
SAE is real picky about this..
Thanks for sharing the info, 470hp sounds about right. Not the pie in the sky 500hp number folks were praying for, but a healthy bump above the LS3 to satisfy all of the 'ONLY 15HP?!?!' complainers.
Melting Slicks
Joined: Jun 2005
Posts: 2,216
Likes: 1
St. Jude Donor '12-'13-'14, '16
I know how the SAE certification is done. Known about since around 2005.
I didn't ask how the certification was done. I asked if the magical numbers the OP is saying appears in the SAE paper were SAE certified numbers(the numbers that will be advertised by GM).
I still haven't seen an answer to my question about the 7200 RPM horsepower readings that are supposed to be mentioned in the SAE paper. I know from the dyno graph that GM has released for the C7's LT1, that the redline is 6500 and the horsepower starts dropping at 5900 RPM and that the LT1's torque drops off faster than the LS3's(which indicates that the engine is not going to put out magical horsepower numbers at high RPMs, above the LS3's).
I didn't ask how the certification was done. I asked if the magical numbers the OP is saying appears in the SAE paper were SAE certified numbers(the numbers that will be advertised by GM).
I still haven't seen an answer to my question about the 7200 RPM horsepower readings that are supposed to be mentioned in the SAE paper. I know from the dyno graph that GM has released for the C7's LT1, that the redline is 6500 and the horsepower starts dropping at 5900 RPM and that the LT1's torque drops off faster than the LS3's(which indicates that the engine is not going to put out magical horsepower numbers at high RPMs, above the LS3's).
Burning Brakes
Joined: Oct 2012
Posts: 933
Likes: 3
From: Dallas, TX
Why do you guys keep saying 470 hp? 35 over the LS3 would be 465 hp, unless he was saying 35 over the LS3 with NPP.
I'd be ok with 470, though. 465, though, (and I know I'm splitting hairs here) just still seems a tad low to me on paper. Gotta draw the line somewhere, heh. But what will be more valuable are real performance specs (0-60, 1/4, skidpad, 'ring times, etc).
But thanks for the info, OP.
I'd be ok with 470, though. 465, though, (and I know I'm splitting hairs here) just still seems a tad low to me on paper. Gotta draw the line somewhere, heh. But what will be more valuable are real performance specs (0-60, 1/4, skidpad, 'ring times, etc).
But thanks for the info, OP.
Team Owner
Joined: Sep 1999
Posts: 41,732
Likes: 1,718
From: Springfield MO
Remember when you were in school and the teacher made you read a book(that was copyrighted) and then write a book review. Did the teacher make you break the law by writing the book review? Did you take the book to your copier, run 370 pages of copies and turn that in as book report?
Last edited by JoesC5; Apr 9, 2013 at 05:47 PM.
Instructor
Joined: Jan 2013
Posts: 226
Likes: 0
He "quoted" part of the paper. Why can't he quote, in his own words, the part that tells about the 7200 RPM and so forth. I'm not asking that he take a snapshot and then post that snapshot.
Remember when you were in school and the teacher made you read a book(that was copyrighted) and then write a book review. Did the teacher make you break the law by writing the book review?
Remember when you were in school and the teacher made you read a book(that was copyrighted) and then write a book review. Did the teacher make you break the law by writing the book review?