Why?
Race Director
Joined: Aug 2000
Posts: 14,860
Likes: 3
From: 96598
perfectly acceptable. You pay a premium price and they
do not care if get cut rate work. This is what the liberal
mind has created. All these Liberal supporters fall right
in and bash all the ones that expect better.
Le Mans Master
Joined: Mar 1999
Posts: 7,288
Likes: 337
From: Decatur GA
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Melting Slicks
Joined: Oct 2012
Posts: 3,109
Likes: 2,032
I have had my new c7 for about a month, I have 644 miles on it and it is a great car, the one downfall is the paint. Today I was wiping it down in the garage and with normal indoor lights I see a run in the paint on the front passenger fender. Now I have to ask, why? The folks have been painting cars, C4, C5, C6 for years. Just because there is a new body style a fender is a fender. I own a 2012 Cadillac SRX costing me 45K, the paint is flawless. So I ask why a 45K Cadillac has a better paint job than a 66K Corvette. What is the difference? Both cars are made by GM, designed by GM but the difference, the Cadillac was made in Mexico. Now having taken 5 Museum Tours and being told that working at Bowling Green is a privilege I ask WHY are we seeing this type of workmanship? The engineers have done an excellent job with the design but it is a shame to see that effort and expertise be deminished by poor quality. Now I'm not going out and sell the car, nor am I going to take it to a GM dealer to have them try to fix it.
In closing, I have my wife's niece's husband works at the KC GM Fairfax plant. He works on the line and he related a story where he noticed all cars coming down the line for the marriage had a dent in the same door. He told his supervisor and was told, don't worry about it, the customer will probably never notice it since it's low on the door. With that mentality friends, our American Way of life is going down the tube, what ever happend to caring and doing the best job you possibly could.
I'm 67 years old, and have seen a lot of changes, unfortunately a lot have been to the detrement of this country. I probably won't live to see it, but if we don't change our ways, we won't be living in 300K homes and driving 65K cars. We will be a broke 3rd world Socialist Country !
In closing, I have my wife's niece's husband works at the KC GM Fairfax plant. He works on the line and he related a story where he noticed all cars coming down the line for the marriage had a dent in the same door. He told his supervisor and was told, don't worry about it, the customer will probably never notice it since it's low on the door. With that mentality friends, our American Way of life is going down the tube, what ever happend to caring and doing the best job you possibly could.
I'm 67 years old, and have seen a lot of changes, unfortunately a lot have been to the detrement of this country. I probably won't live to see it, but if we don't change our ways, we won't be living in 300K homes and driving 65K cars. We will be a broke 3rd world Socialist Country !
And just to put things in perspective for you....$300K will buy you a house in the ghetto here. People living in $300K homes here can barely afford a car let alone a luxury car. Shows you how $300K in some parts exude affluence while in other parts exude the total opposite.
Instructor
Joined: Oct 2013
Posts: 179
Likes: 0
From: North Attleboro Massachusetts
What is so bad, all the people on here that see this as
perfectly acceptable. You pay a premium price and they
do not care if get cut rate work. This is what the liberal
mind has created. All these Liberal supporters fall right
in and bash all the ones that expect better.
perfectly acceptable. You pay a premium price and they
do not care if get cut rate work. This is what the liberal
mind has created. All these Liberal supporters fall right
in and bash all the ones that expect better.
Racer
Joined: Oct 2013
Posts: 331
Likes: 2
This is why Corvette isn't really that respected in the industry. Shoddy workmanship, and lowest bidder on parts make the car sub par for its price point. It's always been the GM way of doing business.
Last edited by Red Lightening; Oct 24, 2013 at 09:39 PM.
Race Director
Joined: Feb 2012
Posts: 10,776
Likes: 11
Were you saying this in the '70s when the Big 3 put out all the sh*t that lost them their automotive leadership to the Japanese? Was it all about socialism then? No. It was about the leadership at those companies thinking that competition didn't matter. 
Runny paint=socialism...
Maybe this belongs in PRC...
Runny paint=socialism...
Maybe this belongs in PRC...
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Thread Starter
Pro
Joined: Mar 2005
Posts: 671
Likes: 1
From: Kansas City Missouri
I grew in the 50/60's that brought the original muscle cars of the 60,s. No these weren't perfect and if it hadn't been for the Japanese we would still be stuck with sub par cars. Don't get me wrong, I love the car, I just can't understand why we are seeing these paint problems. I bought a 14 because at my age and medical problems, I don't buy green bananas because I might not be around for them to ripen. Sorry about getting to serious, it't just a car!
Melting Slicks
Joined: Aug 2012
Posts: 3,159
Likes: 175
To the smart a.. who thought I never been to a 3rd world country, I spent 18 months in Southeast Asia, Philippines and Vietnam, 66 & 67' probably before you were born. As result of that paid vacation and agent orange exposure I now have Parkinson's , Prostate cancer and skin cancer. Freedom is precious, I grew up in a time that America was a Creditor nation and the envy of the world. When I said we have lot we didn't have to worry about being shot in school and a mans word was his bond. Yes I have seen how people live in a 3rd world country, have you?
Last edited by Paulchristian; Oct 24, 2013 at 10:32 PM.
Melting Slicks
Joined: Nov 2009
Posts: 3,297
Likes: 1,151
From: Klein TX
2023 C6 of the Year Finalist - Unmodified
2022 C6 of the Year Finalist - Unmodified
Instructor
Joined: Oct 2013
Posts: 121
Likes: 0
Japan is a much more socialist society than the US. Workers work for companies for life. Although its current government is trying to change that, but at the same time running Japan's national debt and deficit to the point that makes the US government look like the most responsible kid on the block.
I can't say if Japanese cars have the same paint issues, since I have not driven one for awhile. I know the BMWs I have had didn't have the best paint jobs.
We are all screwed, sooner or later people in industrialized countries will all be driving cars made in the 3rd world countries.
I can't say if Japanese cars have the same paint issues, since I have not driven one for awhile. I know the BMWs I have had didn't have the best paint jobs.
We are all screwed, sooner or later people in industrialized countries will all be driving cars made in the 3rd world countries.
VETERAN
Joined: Aug 2005
Posts: 512
Likes: 114
From: Owings Maryland
Thank you for your service LUVLAKE !!!
I agree with you sir. When you buy a new C7 you expect the paint to be right. That is normal behavior. Those who don't agree need a beat-down & don't know what it is to make sacrifices in life.
Enjoy your new C7.
Fuze
Enjoy your new C7.
Fuze
Race Director
Joined: Mar 2005
Posts: 16,684
Likes: 1,193
From: La Center WA
I used to be a robot paint process engineer and later on as a paint manager. I even painted parts for the Corvette. I'd like to share some of my experiences.
First I'd like to say not all fenders are equal, each part has it's own unique characteristics that have to be figured out.
It's been my experience that most paint issues aren't usually caused by robotics. I'm not saying there can't be poor programming or an issue can't be mitigated by superior programming just that the robot is generally not the root cause.
The reason is launching new parts and paints (color and/or new vendor) must go through an intensive validation process. In other words it doesn't go live unless it meets all the specs. The GM spec book on paint quality is literally a 3 inch binder and yes we go through the whole thing.
The most likely root cause really depends on the nature of the defect. For example let's go with paint runs. This is a common issue. Unfortunately even this example isn't simple. Since there are several types. Runs, sags, cascade sags, base drag, hanging drip, fat edge, etc. Each type has their own potential list of root causes.
I could easily list 20 things that can cause a run and some are definitely programming but the top causes are:
Paint viscosity
Solvent blend
Humidity
Temperature (ambient, part, paint, oven, flash off zones, the list goes on)
Racking (position, grounding, part density etc)
You'll notice the top 4 are a usually responses to changes in weather. The original processes are generally created, validated and optimized in the spring/summer. Then winter hits. Now the problem isn't the season, that can be compensated for, as much as the transition. Hot afternoon, freezing night, wet morning... Radical shifts require changes and that doesn't happen automatically; it takes a human to figure it out, sometimes by trial and error. Painting is as much of an art as a science.
With that said, there is no excuse for poor paint quality to escape the plant. All these issues should be internal and the customer should not have to experience them. This too is also something the plant will get better at. The car is new, they don't know where to focus their energy so they spend it initially on looking everywhere. Once they get familiar with common issues, QC will be more successful at finding them.
I know it sucks to get a poor paint job and I feel your pain, not only as customer but also as someone who poured his blood, sweat and tear into giving the customer the best paint job possible.
First I'd like to say not all fenders are equal, each part has it's own unique characteristics that have to be figured out.
It's been my experience that most paint issues aren't usually caused by robotics. I'm not saying there can't be poor programming or an issue can't be mitigated by superior programming just that the robot is generally not the root cause.
The reason is launching new parts and paints (color and/or new vendor) must go through an intensive validation process. In other words it doesn't go live unless it meets all the specs. The GM spec book on paint quality is literally a 3 inch binder and yes we go through the whole thing.
The most likely root cause really depends on the nature of the defect. For example let's go with paint runs. This is a common issue. Unfortunately even this example isn't simple. Since there are several types. Runs, sags, cascade sags, base drag, hanging drip, fat edge, etc. Each type has their own potential list of root causes.
I could easily list 20 things that can cause a run and some are definitely programming but the top causes are:
Paint viscosity
Solvent blend
Humidity
Temperature (ambient, part, paint, oven, flash off zones, the list goes on)
Racking (position, grounding, part density etc)
You'll notice the top 4 are a usually responses to changes in weather. The original processes are generally created, validated and optimized in the spring/summer. Then winter hits. Now the problem isn't the season, that can be compensated for, as much as the transition. Hot afternoon, freezing night, wet morning... Radical shifts require changes and that doesn't happen automatically; it takes a human to figure it out, sometimes by trial and error. Painting is as much of an art as a science.
With that said, there is no excuse for poor paint quality to escape the plant. All these issues should be internal and the customer should not have to experience them. This too is also something the plant will get better at. The car is new, they don't know where to focus their energy so they spend it initially on looking everywhere. Once they get familiar with common issues, QC will be more successful at finding them.
I know it sucks to get a poor paint job and I feel your pain, not only as customer but also as someone who poured his blood, sweat and tear into giving the customer the best paint job possible.
Race Director
Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 15,678
Likes: 1,097
From: birmingham Alabama
St. Jude Donor '09 and '13
Intermediate
Joined: Oct 2013
Posts: 26
Likes: 0
Sorry to hear about the Agent Orange peel issues.
I keed, I keed. I know, totally inappropriate. If the paint issues are as bad as people say, that's just horrible and customers have to demand excellence from GM. I know issues and flukes happen, but not on the majority of cars. If that's really what's happening with these paint issues.
I keed, I keed. I know, totally inappropriate. If the paint issues are as bad as people say, that's just horrible and customers have to demand excellence from GM. I know issues and flukes happen, but not on the majority of cars. If that's really what's happening with these paint issues.
Team Owner
Joined: Jun 2005
Posts: 46,295
Likes: 2,596
From: Northern, VA
St. Jude Donor '15
"In honor of jpee"
I used to be a robot paint process engineer and later on as a paint manager. I even painted parts for the Corvette. I'd like to share some of my experiences.
First I'd like to say not all fenders are equal, each part has it's own unique characteristics that have to be figured out.
It's been my experience that most paint issues aren't usually caused by robotics. I'm not saying there can't be poor programming or an issue can't be mitigated by superior programming just that the robot is generally not the root cause.
The reason is launching new parts and paints (color and/or new vendor) must go through an intensive validation process. In other words it doesn't go live unless it meets all the specs. The GM spec book on paint quality is literally a 3 inch binder and yes we go through the whole thing.
The most likely root cause really depends on the nature of the defect. For example let's go with paint runs. This is a common issue. Unfortunately even this example isn't simple. Since there are several types. Runs, sags, cascade sags, base drag, hanging drip, fat edge, etc. Each type has their own potential list of root causes.
I could easily list 20 things that can cause a run and some are definitely programming but the top causes are:
Paint viscosity
Solvent blend
Humidity
Temperature (ambient, part, paint, oven, flash off zones, the list goes on)
Racking (position, grounding, part density etc)
You'll notice the top 4 are a usually responses to changes in weather. The original processes are generally created, validated and optimized in the spring/summer. Then winter hits. Now the problem isn't the season, that can be compensated for, as much as the transition. Hot afternoon, freezing night, wet morning... Radical shifts require changes and that doesn't happen automatically; it takes a human to figure it out, sometimes by trial and error. Painting is as much of an art as a science.
With that said, there is no excuse for poor paint quality to escape the plant. All these issues should be internal and the customer should not have to experience them. This too is also something the plant will get better at. The car is new, they don't know where to focus their energy so they spend it initially on looking everywhere. Once they get familiar with common issues, QC will be more successful at finding them.
I know it sucks to get a poor paint job and I feel your pain, not only as customer but also as someone who poured his blood, sweat and tear into giving the customer the best paint job possible.
First I'd like to say not all fenders are equal, each part has it's own unique characteristics that have to be figured out.
It's been my experience that most paint issues aren't usually caused by robotics. I'm not saying there can't be poor programming or an issue can't be mitigated by superior programming just that the robot is generally not the root cause.
The reason is launching new parts and paints (color and/or new vendor) must go through an intensive validation process. In other words it doesn't go live unless it meets all the specs. The GM spec book on paint quality is literally a 3 inch binder and yes we go through the whole thing.
The most likely root cause really depends on the nature of the defect. For example let's go with paint runs. This is a common issue. Unfortunately even this example isn't simple. Since there are several types. Runs, sags, cascade sags, base drag, hanging drip, fat edge, etc. Each type has their own potential list of root causes.
I could easily list 20 things that can cause a run and some are definitely programming but the top causes are:
Paint viscosity
Solvent blend
Humidity
Temperature (ambient, part, paint, oven, flash off zones, the list goes on)
Racking (position, grounding, part density etc)
You'll notice the top 4 are a usually responses to changes in weather. The original processes are generally created, validated and optimized in the spring/summer. Then winter hits. Now the problem isn't the season, that can be compensated for, as much as the transition. Hot afternoon, freezing night, wet morning... Radical shifts require changes and that doesn't happen automatically; it takes a human to figure it out, sometimes by trial and error. Painting is as much of an art as a science.
With that said, there is no excuse for poor paint quality to escape the plant. All these issues should be internal and the customer should not have to experience them. This too is also something the plant will get better at. The car is new, they don't know where to focus their energy so they spend it initially on looking everywhere. Once they get familiar with common issues, QC will be more successful at finding them.
I know it sucks to get a poor paint job and I feel your pain, not only as customer but also as someone who poured his blood, sweat and tear into giving the customer the best paint job possible.
