Why?
10-24-2013, 05:19 PM
#1
Pro
Thread Starter
Why?
I have had my new c7 for about a month, I have 644 miles on it and it is a great car, the one downfall is the paint. Today I was wiping it down in the garage and with normal indoor lights I see a run in the paint on the front passenger fender. Now I have to ask, why? The folks have been painting cars, C4, C5, C6 for years. Just because there is a new body style a fender is a fender. I own a 2012 Cadillac SRX costing me 45K, the paint is flawless. So I ask why a 45K Cadillac has a better paint job than a 66K Corvette. What is the difference? Both cars are made by GM, designed by GM but the difference, the Cadillac was made in Mexico. Now having taken 5 Museum Tours and being told that working at Bowling Green is a privilege I ask WHY are we seeing this type of workmanship? The engineers have done an excellent job with the design but it is a shame to see that effort and expertise be deminished by poor quality. Now I'm not going out and sell the car, nor am I going to take it to a GM dealer to have them try to fix it.
In closing, I have my wife's niece's husband works at the KC GM Fairfax plant. He works on the line and he related a story where he noticed all cars coming down the line for the marriage had a dent in the same door. He told his supervisor and was told, don't worry about it, the customer will probably never notice it since it's low on the door. With that mentality friends, our American Way of life is going down the tube, what ever happend to caring and doing the best job you possibly could.
I'm 67 years old, and have seen a lot of changes, unfortunately a lot have been to the detrement of this country. I probably won't live to see it, but if we don't change our ways, we won't be living in 300K homes and driving 65K cars. We will be a broke 3rd world Socialist Country !
In closing, I have my wife's niece's husband works at the KC GM Fairfax plant. He works on the line and he related a story where he noticed all cars coming down the line for the marriage had a dent in the same door. He told his supervisor and was told, don't worry about it, the customer will probably never notice it since it's low on the door. With that mentality friends, our American Way of life is going down the tube, what ever happend to caring and doing the best job you possibly could.
I'm 67 years old, and have seen a lot of changes, unfortunately a lot have been to the detrement of this country. I probably won't live to see it, but if we don't change our ways, we won't be living in 300K homes and driving 65K cars. We will be a broke 3rd world Socialist Country !
10-24-2013, 05:53 PM
#2
Night Race Blue 427
Member Since: Feb 1999
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Someone didn't do a very good job at programming the robots that do the painting.
10-24-2013, 05:57 PM
#3
wow...bad paint job--socialist country...lmmfao...first year jinx...get over it...you got a "7"...just stay away from bright lights
10-24-2013, 06:41 PM
#5
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St. Jude Donor '11-'12-'13, '16-'17-'18
Well.....you do have to admit that it isn't unreasonable to think a $60K+ vehicle's paint would at least not be orange peeled.
And every single C7 I've seen is
And every single C7 I've seen is
10-24-2013, 06:44 PM
#6
I'm 67 years old, and have seen a lot of changes, unfortunately a lot have been to the detrement of this country. I probably won't live to see it, but if we don't change our ways, we won't be living in 300K homes and driving 65K cars. We will be a broke 3rd world Socialist Country !
10-24-2013, 06:56 PM
#7
Burning Brakes
I would advise everyone to do a very detailed inspection before taking delivery... If we, as customers, didn't accept this poor workmanship, GM would be forced to step up their QC.
10-24-2013, 06:56 PM
#8
Heel & Toe
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I used to be a robot paint process engineer and later on as a paint manager. I even painted parts for the Corvette. I'd like to share some of my experiences.
First I'd like to say not all fenders are equal, each part has it's own unique characteristics that have to be figured out.
It's been my experience that most paint issues aren't usually caused by robotics. I'm not saying there can't be poor programming or an issue can't be mitigated by superior programming just that the robot is generally not the root cause.
The reason is launching new parts and paints (color and/or new vendor) must go through an intensive validation process. In other words it doesn't go live unless it meets all the specs. The GM spec book on paint quality is literally a 3 inch binder and yes we go through the whole thing.
The most likely root cause really depends on the nature of the defect. For example let's go with paint runs. This is a common issue. Unfortunately even this example isn't simple. Since there are several types. Runs, sags, cascade sags, base drag, hanging drip, fat edge, etc. Each type has their own potential list of root causes.
I could easily list 20 things that can cause a run and some are definitely programming but the top causes are:
Paint viscosity
Solvent blend
Humidity
Temperature (ambient, part, paint, oven, flash off zones, the list goes on)
Racking (position, grounding, part density etc)
You'll notice the top 4 are a usually responses to changes in weather. The original processes are generally created, validated and optimized in the spring/summer. Then winter hits. Now the problem isn't the season, that can be compensated for, as much as the transition. Hot afternoon, freezing night, wet morning... Radical shifts require changes and that doesn't happen automatically; it takes a human to figure it out, sometimes by trial and error. Painting is as much of an art as a science.
With that said, there is no excuse for poor paint quality to escape the plant. All these issues should be internal and the customer should not have to experience them. This too is also something the plant will get better at. The car is new, they don't know where to focus their energy so they spend it initially on looking everywhere. Once they get familiar with common issues, QC will be more successful at finding them.
I know it sucks to get a poor paint job and I feel your pain, not only as customer but also as someone who poured his blood, sweat and tear into giving the customer the best paint job possible.
First I'd like to say not all fenders are equal, each part has it's own unique characteristics that have to be figured out.
It's been my experience that most paint issues aren't usually caused by robotics. I'm not saying there can't be poor programming or an issue can't be mitigated by superior programming just that the robot is generally not the root cause.
The reason is launching new parts and paints (color and/or new vendor) must go through an intensive validation process. In other words it doesn't go live unless it meets all the specs. The GM spec book on paint quality is literally a 3 inch binder and yes we go through the whole thing.
The most likely root cause really depends on the nature of the defect. For example let's go with paint runs. This is a common issue. Unfortunately even this example isn't simple. Since there are several types. Runs, sags, cascade sags, base drag, hanging drip, fat edge, etc. Each type has their own potential list of root causes.
I could easily list 20 things that can cause a run and some are definitely programming but the top causes are:
Paint viscosity
Solvent blend
Humidity
Temperature (ambient, part, paint, oven, flash off zones, the list goes on)
Racking (position, grounding, part density etc)
You'll notice the top 4 are a usually responses to changes in weather. The original processes are generally created, validated and optimized in the spring/summer. Then winter hits. Now the problem isn't the season, that can be compensated for, as much as the transition. Hot afternoon, freezing night, wet morning... Radical shifts require changes and that doesn't happen automatically; it takes a human to figure it out, sometimes by trial and error. Painting is as much of an art as a science.
With that said, there is no excuse for poor paint quality to escape the plant. All these issues should be internal and the customer should not have to experience them. This too is also something the plant will get better at. The car is new, they don't know where to focus their energy so they spend it initially on looking everywhere. Once they get familiar with common issues, QC will be more successful at finding them.
I know it sucks to get a poor paint job and I feel your pain, not only as customer but also as someone who poured his blood, sweat and tear into giving the customer the best paint job possible.
10-24-2013, 06:59 PM
#9
Race Director
I have had my new c7 for about a month, I have 644 miles on it and it is a great car, the one downfall is the paint. Today I was wiping it down in the garage and with normal indoor lights I see a run in the paint on the front passenger fender. Now I have to ask, why? The folks have been painting cars, C4, C5, C6 for years. Just because there is a new body style a fender is a fender. I own a 2012 Cadillac SRX costing me 45K, the paint is flawless. So I ask why a 45K Cadillac has a better paint job than a 66K Corvette. What is the difference? Both cars are made by GM, designed by GM but the difference, the Cadillac was made in Mexico. Now having taken 5 Museum Tours and being told that working at Bowling Green is a privilege I ask WHY are we seeing this type of workmanship? The engineers have done an excellent job with the design but it is a shame to see that effort and expertise be deminished by poor quality. Now I'm not going out and sell the car, nor am I going to take it to a GM dealer to have them try to fix it.
In closing, I have my wife's niece's husband works at the KC GM Fairfax plant. He works on the line and he related a story where he noticed all cars coming down the line for the marriage had a dent in the same door. He told his supervisor and was told, don't worry about it, the customer will probably never notice it since it's low on the door. With that mentality friends, our American Way of life is going down the tube, what ever happend to caring and doing the best job you possibly could.
I'm 67 years old, and have seen a lot of changes, unfortunately a lot have been to the detrement of this country. I probably won't live to see it, but if we don't change our ways, we won't be living in 300K homes and driving 65K cars. We will be a broke 3rd world Socialist Country !
In closing, I have my wife's niece's husband works at the KC GM Fairfax plant. He works on the line and he related a story where he noticed all cars coming down the line for the marriage had a dent in the same door. He told his supervisor and was told, don't worry about it, the customer will probably never notice it since it's low on the door. With that mentality friends, our American Way of life is going down the tube, what ever happend to caring and doing the best job you possibly could.
I'm 67 years old, and have seen a lot of changes, unfortunately a lot have been to the detrement of this country. I probably won't live to see it, but if we don't change our ways, we won't be living in 300K homes and driving 65K cars. We will be a broke 3rd world Socialist Country !
10-24-2013, 07:02 PM
#10
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St. Jude Donor '11-'12-'13, '16-'17-'18
10-24-2013, 07:05 PM
#11
The Mexican robots have a much better work ethic than the US robots. The US robots are always bitching that they do not make enough, get enough vacation, sick leave, and retirement benefits. Half the time they are drunk or high and the other half they are sabotaging the assembly line.
The Mexican robots appreciate their jobs, would be willing to work 7 days a week instead of 4, and respect authority.
Why do you think so many people stopped buying US vehicles and started buying Japanese cars back in the 60's-70's?
Am I reading between the lines or are we actually able to blame Obama for a $hitty paint job?
The Mexican robots appreciate their jobs, would be willing to work 7 days a week instead of 4, and respect authority.
Why do you think so many people stopped buying US vehicles and started buying Japanese cars back in the 60's-70's?
Am I reading between the lines or are we actually able to blame Obama for a $hitty paint job?
Last edited by jkcam6017; 10-24-2013 at 07:08 PM.
10-24-2013, 07:13 PM
#12
Drifting
Somewhat imperfect paint job that nobody notices unless they're looking for it = inevitable third world socialist country.
Maybe this will make some molecule of sense after a 40 of OE ...
Maybe this will make some molecule of sense after a 40 of OE ...
10-24-2013, 07:21 PM
#13
10-24-2013, 07:21 PM
#14
10-24-2013, 07:40 PM
#15
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I hope it's getting better - I have been detailing for years and have seen lots of bad paint jobs. Happy to say my car #3602 picked up this week was damn near perfect. As a matter of fact there are few spots that reveal thck clear coat so I'm happy I can polish ...I have no peel whatsoever.
10-24-2013, 07:41 PM
#16
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St. Jude Donor '11-'12-'13, '16-'17-'18
I hope it's getting better - I have been detailing for years and have seen lots of bad paint jobs. Happy to say my car #3602 picked up this week was damn near perfect. As a matter of fact there are few spots that reveal thck clear coat so I'm happy I can polish ...I have no peel whatsoever.
10-24-2013, 08:34 PM
#17
Pro
Thread Starter
To the smart a.. who thought I never been to a 3rd world country, I spent 18 months in Southeast Asia, Philippines and Vietnam, 66 & 67' probably before you were born. As result of that paid vacation and agent orange exposure I now have Parkinson's , Prostate cancer and skin cancer. Freedom is precious, I grew up in a time that America was a Creditor nation and the envy of the world. When I said we have lot we didn't have to worry about being shot in school and a mans word was his bond. Yes I have seen how people live in a 3rd world country, have you?
10-24-2013, 08:49 PM
#19
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St. Jude Donor '06-'07-'08-'09-'10-'11-'12-'13-'14-'15- '16-'17-‘18-‘19-'20-'21
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................ I was going to nominate Washington D.C.
10-24-2013, 08:58 PM
#20
Race Director
To the smart a.. who thought I never been to a 3rd world country, I spent 18 months in Southeast Asia, Philippines and Vietnam, 66 & 67' probably before you were born. As result of that paid vacation and agent orange exposure I now have Parkinson's , Prostate cancer and skin cancer. Freedom is precious, I grew up in a time that America was a Creditor nation and the envy of the world. When I said we have lot we didn't have to worry about being shot in school and a mans word was his bond. Yes I have seen how people live in a 3rd world country, have you?
and i wouldn't let the "trolls" get to you. there are a lot of smart a$$es on the forum that are just plain morons.
i agree, for the money your paying the car should be flawless. to future buyers, check the paint job before the deal is finalized. if too much orange peel, cancel unless they offer to remedy the problem. unless of course your satisfied with what yo got.