OnStar spy ring
Le Mans Master
Joined: Aug 2000
Posts: 6,486
Likes: 1,659
From: Las Vegas NV
So even if it was desired, C7 EDR *cannot* provide driving data older than about a minute. Seems pretty safe to me as far as ongoing privacy/data mining concerns go.
And, given the EDR's critical role, I would guess that OnStar does NOT have access to the EDR data -- I think the EDR has to be physically accessed to harvest that 20 seconds of pre-accident data. I have to look into that...
Melting Slicks
Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 3,104
Likes: 626
From: Baton Rouge LA
Le Mans Master
Joined: Dec 2004
Posts: 5,493
Likes: 809
From: West coast CA
Certainly, they have the ability to do so, but actually recording it for EVERY SUBSCRIBER, just because they can? OnStar has literally multiple MILLIONS of subscribers -- do you think they record all that GPS info, on each of those millions of cars, minute by minute, mile-by-mile, day-after-day, year-after-year... who is paying for all that storage? Do you have any idea what size dataset that would be, and how much the compute would cost to catalog and store that massive amount of data? And for what financial return?
Of course GM would likely use some ponderous enterprise database system with a footprint a thousand times bigger than necessary.
The data itself would be worth a fortune for market research alone, particularly if it wasn't anonymized.
Le Mans Master
Joined: Oct 2005
Posts: 7,002
Likes: 2,679
Le Mans Master
Joined: Oct 2005
Posts: 7,002
Likes: 2,679
Thanks for the confirmation. So the C7 EDR *is* running continuously, but it is constantly overwriting info older than about a minute or so.
So even if it was desired, C7 EDR *cannot* provide driving data older than about a minute. Seems pretty safe to me as far as ongoing privacy/data mining concerns go.
And, given the EDR's critical role, I would guess that OnStar does NOT have access to the EDR data -- I think the EDR has to be physically accessed to harvest that 20 seconds of pre-accident data. I have to look into that...
So even if it was desired, C7 EDR *cannot* provide driving data older than about a minute. Seems pretty safe to me as far as ongoing privacy/data mining concerns go.
And, given the EDR's critical role, I would guess that OnStar does NOT have access to the EDR data -- I think the EDR has to be physically accessed to harvest that 20 seconds of pre-accident data. I have to look into that...
When your car sets a DTC it grabs a bunch of information called "Freeze Frame" or "Snapshot" data, things like time, odometer, vehicle speed, outdoor temp, voltage draw, current draw, etc...
In the future these DTCs and their associated data will be funneled back to the OEMs to be collected and sorted. Not to spy on people, but to get usage statistics. The OEMs want to know how cars are actually used and asking your users/customers isn't the best method. So soon the cars will just log everything and send it off. It will be hashed like your Google Ad-Sense data is, and no PII can be collected (Personally Identifiable Information).
Racer
Joined: Mar 2009
Posts: 354
Likes: 32
Liberty Mutual Insurance
Details, please? I didn't see any such thing on my OnStar account.
Certainly, they have the ability to do so, but actually recording it for EVERY SUBSCRIBER, just because they can? OnStar has literally multiple MILLIONS of subscribers -- do you think they record all that GPS info, on each of those millions of cars, minute by minute, mile-by-mile, day-after-day, year-after-year... who is paying for all that storage? Do you have any idea what size dataset that would be, and how much the compute would cost to catalog and store that massive amount of data? And for what financial return?
And, NO, OnStar cannot just unilaterally decide to "share" your driving information with your insurance company -- you have to explicitly give them permission to do so (or they have to have a judge-signed court order to do it secretly). An example: if you agreed to share the OnStar info with the insurance company to get a discounted monthly OnStar price. (kind of like how Progressive Ins offers you a GPS monitor to plug into your car for a discounted insurance rate)
Certainly, they have the ability to do so, but actually recording it for EVERY SUBSCRIBER, just because they can? OnStar has literally multiple MILLIONS of subscribers -- do you think they record all that GPS info, on each of those millions of cars, minute by minute, mile-by-mile, day-after-day, year-after-year... who is paying for all that storage? Do you have any idea what size dataset that would be, and how much the compute would cost to catalog and store that massive amount of data? And for what financial return?
And, NO, OnStar cannot just unilaterally decide to "share" your driving information with your insurance company -- you have to explicitly give them permission to do so (or they have to have a judge-signed court order to do it secretly). An example: if you agreed to share the OnStar info with the insurance company to get a discounted monthly OnStar price. (kind of like how Progressive Ins offers you a GPS monitor to plug into your car for a discounted insurance rate)
Burning Brakes
Joined: Apr 2014
Posts: 854
Likes: 302
How many of you have shopping rewards cards at your favorite stores? You might be kind of shocked as to what they can figure out about you...heck, years ago Target figured out a teenager was pregnant before her father even knew.... http://www.nytimes.com/2012/02/19/ma...ng-habits.html[/QUOTE]
That's why my cards list me as Richard Passwater that lives at 704 Howser Street, Queens...
That's why my cards list me as Richard Passwater that lives at 704 Howser Street, Queens...
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Le Mans Master
Joined: Aug 2015
Posts: 8,243
Likes: 4,618
From: Southwest Florida
Thanks for the confirmation. So the C7 EDR *is* running continuously, but it is constantly overwriting info older than about a minute or so.
So even if it was desired, C7 EDR *cannot* provide driving data older than about a minute. Seems pretty safe to me as far as ongoing privacy/data mining concerns go.
And, given the EDR's critical role, I would guess that OnStar does NOT have access to the EDR data -- I think the EDR has to be physically accessed to harvest that 20 seconds of pre-accident data. I have to look into that...
So even if it was desired, C7 EDR *cannot* provide driving data older than about a minute. Seems pretty safe to me as far as ongoing privacy/data mining concerns go.
And, given the EDR's critical role, I would guess that OnStar does NOT have access to the EDR data -- I think the EDR has to be physically accessed to harvest that 20 seconds of pre-accident data. I have to look into that...
Apparently Chevy is far better than Kia! I also have an Optima. I found out that Kia tracks me everywhere I drive. It tracks my speed, time driven, distance and a detailed map of where I went. I found this out when I went on line and looked under my driving score. There were detailed maps of where I went, my speed, travel time, and total distance driven For every time I drove the car. I was pissed!
Last edited by Maxie2U; Apr 17, 2017 at 09:38 PM.
Burning Brakes
Joined: Nov 2016
Posts: 774
Likes: 91
I forgot to pay my Verizon internet bill (now on automatic) on my modem 4G LTE. I keep it with me in my pocket sometimes for internet for the laptop....I was at my girlfriends house with it shut off in my pocket. They started calling her (non-Verizon member) but public phone number asking if I was there!
Same goes for cell phones....you can't hide!!
Same goes for cell phones....you can't hide!!
Burning Brakes
Joined: Apr 2014
Posts: 854
Likes: 302
EDR's are a double edge sword. Sure, it might exonerate you in an accident but what if you are enjoying your Corvette and you make an error and cause an at fault accident. That is bad enough but do you really want your car ratting you out? I sure don't. Not to mention I paid for the hardware by purchasing the car and frankly, it should be mine to do with what I please. Funny that quite a few here are very vocal about "government overreach" yet are "glad the EDR is there"....seems like quite the contradiction.
Team Owner
Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 25,583
Likes: 16,942
I sure as hell want you to be found at fault for your at fault accident.
The reason regulations exist is to protect others from those who seem to feel they can do whatever they want, and shouldn't have to take responsibility for their own actions.
The reason regulations exist is to protect others from those who seem to feel they can do whatever they want, and shouldn't have to take responsibility for their own actions.
Last edited by Foosh; Apr 18, 2017 at 12:47 AM.
Race Director
Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 10,084
Likes: 3,056
From: CA
Not really. It's a choice thing, and the OP apparently didn't realize he opted in.
Most insurance companies these days offer customers the option of having a module plugged into the OBDII port for several months in exchange for a discount. You get a discount just by participating, and the tamer you drive the bigger the discount.
However, it's entirely voluntary.
Most insurance companies these days offer customers the option of having a module plugged into the OBDII port for several months in exchange for a discount. You get a discount just by participating, and the tamer you drive the bigger the discount.
However, it's entirely voluntary.
Michael
Race Director
Joined: Sep 2014
Posts: 11,905
Likes: 2,148
I forgot to pay my Verizon internet bill (now on automatic) on my modem 4G LTE. I keep it with me in my pocket sometimes for internet for the laptop....I was at my girlfriends house with it shut off in my pocket. They started calling her (non-Verizon member) but public phone number asking if I was there!
Same goes for cell phones....you can't hide!!
Same goes for cell phones....you can't hide!!
It isn't about crashing into another car, it's about losing traction and whacking a tree on the side of the road while out on a romp.
Not to mention I paid for the hardware by purchasing the car and frankly, it should be mine to do with what I please.
It's my $$$, it's MY frickin' car; GM didn't GIVE it to me.
Funny that quite a few here are very vocal about "government overreach" yet are "glad the EDR is there"....seems like quite the contradiction.
Tech Contributor
Joined: Oct 1999
Posts: 41,058
Likes: 9,822
From: Charlotte, NC (formerly Endicott, NY)
The smart driver data isn't very informative to an insurer. I am signed up to let OnStar provide miles traveled per month to my insurer. However, they don't want anything but miles traveled. I did pay the extra $5 per month for Smart Driver for a few months last year while I was doing track events. There is no way it could tell what I was doing. I just saw that I applied the brakes too hard and the throttle too hard a few times even on days where I put a 100 miles on the track with 17 turns involving hard braking and hard acceleration. I never did see anything about speed there was no info when I exceeded 100 mph or 150 mph.
The paranoids amongst us can take off their tin foil hats for a while. OnStar isn't big brother looking over us.
Bill
The paranoids amongst us can take off their tin foil hats for a while. OnStar isn't big brother looking over us.
Bill
Last edited by Bill Dearborn; Apr 18, 2017 at 02:39 AM.
Tech Contributor
Joined: Oct 1999
Posts: 41,058
Likes: 9,822
From: Charlotte, NC (formerly Endicott, NY)
EDR's are a double edge sword. Sure, it might exonerate you in an accident but what if you are enjoying your Corvette and you make an error and cause an at fault accident. That is bad enough but do you really want your car ratting you out? I sure don't. Not to mention I paid for the hardware by purchasing the car and frankly, it should be mine to do with what I please. Funny that quite a few here are very vocal about "government overreach" yet are "glad the EDR is there"....seems like quite the contradiction.
Bill
Team Owner
Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 25,583
Likes: 16,942
Why do you think "occasional or recreational" use use policies such as on classic cars are so cheap?
Drifting
Joined: Oct 2014
Posts: 1,841
Likes: 158
From: chair
Details, please? I didn't see any such thing on my OnStar account.
Certainly, they have the ability to do so, but actually recording it for EVERY SUBSCRIBER, just because they can? OnStar has literally multiple MILLIONS of subscribers -- do you think they record all that GPS info, on each of those millions of cars, minute by minute, mile-by-mile, day-after-day, year-after-year... who is paying for all that storage? Do you have any idea what size dataset that would be, and how much the compute would cost to catalog and store that massive amount of data? And for what financial return?
And, NO, OnStar cannot just unilaterally decide to "share" your driving information with your insurance company -- you have to explicitly give them permission to do so (or they have to have a judge-signed court order to do it secretly). An example: if you agreed to share the OnStar info with the insurance company to get a discounted monthly OnStar price. (kind of like how Progressive Ins offers you a GPS monitor to plug into your car for a discounted insurance rate)
Certainly, they have the ability to do so, but actually recording it for EVERY SUBSCRIBER, just because they can? OnStar has literally multiple MILLIONS of subscribers -- do you think they record all that GPS info, on each of those millions of cars, minute by minute, mile-by-mile, day-after-day, year-after-year... who is paying for all that storage? Do you have any idea what size dataset that would be, and how much the compute would cost to catalog and store that massive amount of data? And for what financial return?
And, NO, OnStar cannot just unilaterally decide to "share" your driving information with your insurance company -- you have to explicitly give them permission to do so (or they have to have a judge-signed court order to do it secretly). An example: if you agreed to share the OnStar info with the insurance company to get a discounted monthly OnStar price. (kind of like how Progressive Ins offers you a GPS monitor to plug into your car for a discounted insurance rate)
Le Mans Master
Joined: Aug 2000
Posts: 6,486
Likes: 1,659
From: Las Vegas NV