Added Throttle Controller
Thread Starter
E-Ray, 3LZ, ZER, LIFT
Joined: Sep 2007
Posts: 34,937
Likes: 12,350
From: NE South Carolina
Lol I am doing 30+ track days in my c7 this year. I consider myself pretty knowledgeable. It's less aggressive as in traction control and stability control kick in very early, but the throttle is the same.
And looking at that chart you referenced. When it is in track, throttle is in track, right? I see the 3 and 4 different ranges. Now show me being in track (any PTM setting) and show me the throttle being less than the most aggressive.
And to the other guy. There are 3 ranges in my car. Look at the charts we are referencing. I will admit it is tough to feel the difference between sport and track. But I am in track 100% of the time in PTM and the throttle is always the same...
I'm not trying to be rude. Just trying to figure out if you posted something in those charts that I missed. When a c7 is in track so is the throttle. Even in PTM wet. There is nothing in those charts that states otherwise, right?
And looking at that chart you referenced. When it is in track, throttle is in track, right? I see the 3 and 4 different ranges. Now show me being in track (any PTM setting) and show me the throttle being less than the most aggressive.
And to the other guy. There are 3 ranges in my car. Look at the charts we are referencing. I will admit it is tough to feel the difference between sport and track. But I am in track 100% of the time in PTM and the throttle is always the same...
I'm not trying to be rude. Just trying to figure out if you posted something in those charts that I missed. When a c7 is in track so is the throttle. Even in PTM wet. There is nothing in those charts that states otherwise, right?
The fellow I recall making comments was Bill Dearbron who posts a lot on the Forum and makes sense. Beliive this is the one I'm referring to posted 8/12/2017:
"I tell people to put the car in Track Wet Mode while driving on dry roads. Then go around some corners like you normally would do if you just hopped into the car to run to the store or something. Wet mode will sensitize PTM to the max and reduce the change rate of throttle application. If you have your windows open you can hear it modulating the engine (I describe the exhaust as sounding like a diesel engine being used to slow a truck using a Jake Brake). As you move up toward RACE Mode PTM gets less restrictive but is still active in RACE Mode. The Owner's Manual will tell you as you are coming off a corner to go to wide open throttle sooner than you normally would and PTM will modulate rear wheel power to the available grip. Even with slicks I haven't been able to do that all the way as it is counter intuitive to the way you drive any other car. However, I am being more aggressive with the throttle and I can hear and feel PTM working on quite a few track corners. At VIR Turn 1 it starts working about 1/2 way around the turn as I open up the throttle. The few times I have tried to go all the way to the floor the back end would start to slide left and I would have to breathe off the throttle to keep the car pointed where I wanted it to go. Haven't had the ***** to just go wide open and see if it only stepped out a little and settled down. Not some place where I want to spin off the track at 60 mph. The least of the worries is to have the Black Flag Marshall yelling at you about why you thought that was a good idea when you go see him after a 4 off or spin.
Bill"
I read the words I put in bold, as the throttle progression is less aggressive when in PTM/WET as would be logical for GM to do for "racing in the rain!"
As I say, your call do as you wish!
Last edited by JerryU; Sep 10, 2017 at 04:26 PM.
Burning Brakes
Joined: Apr 2016
Posts: 1,210
Likes: 243
C7 of Year Finalist (track prepared) 2019
Throttle Response in PTM/WET is not in the charts I posted. Nor is it mentioned in the Red Chart. In fact looking at the Red Chart again I see Steering is shown as in Touring when in PTM/WET and I was used to the Sport setting in my 2014. That is where I have my Grand Sport set for any Driving Mode. GM provides that option as I have NPP always in Track Mode!
The fellow I recall making comments was Bill Dearbron who posts a lot on the Forum and makes sense. Beliive this is the one I'm referring to posted 8/12/2017:
"I tell people to put the car in Track Wet Mode while driving on dry roads. Then go around some corners like you normally would do if you just hopped into the car to run to the store or something. Wet mode will sensitize PTM to the max and reduce the change rate of throttle application. If you have your windows open you can hear it modulating the engine (I describe the exhaust as sounding like a diesel engine being used to slow a truck using a Jake Brake). As you move up toward RACE Mode PTM gets less restrictive but is still active in RACE Mode. The Owner's Manual will tell you as you are coming off a corner to go to wide open throttle sooner than you normally would and PTM will modulate rear wheel power to the available grip. Even with slicks I haven't been able to do that all the way as it is counter intuitive to the way you drive any other car. However, I am being more aggressive with the throttle and I can hear and feel PTM working on quite a few track corners. At VIR Turn 1 it starts working about 1/2 way around the turn as I open up the throttle. The few times I have tried to go all the way to the floor the back end would start to slide left and I would have to breathe off the throttle to keep the car pointed where I wanted it to go. Haven't had the ***** to just go wide open and see if it only stepped out a little and settled down. Not some place where I want to spin off the track at 60 mph. The least of the worries is to have the Black Flag Marshall yelling at you about why you thought that was a good idea when you go see him after a 4 off or spin.
Bill"
I read the words I put in bold, as the throttle progression is less aggressive when in PTM/WET as would be logical for GM to do for "racing in the rain!"
As I say, your call do as you wish!
The fellow I recall making comments was Bill Dearbron who posts a lot on the Forum and makes sense. Beliive this is the one I'm referring to posted 8/12/2017:
"I tell people to put the car in Track Wet Mode while driving on dry roads. Then go around some corners like you normally would do if you just hopped into the car to run to the store or something. Wet mode will sensitize PTM to the max and reduce the change rate of throttle application. If you have your windows open you can hear it modulating the engine (I describe the exhaust as sounding like a diesel engine being used to slow a truck using a Jake Brake). As you move up toward RACE Mode PTM gets less restrictive but is still active in RACE Mode. The Owner's Manual will tell you as you are coming off a corner to go to wide open throttle sooner than you normally would and PTM will modulate rear wheel power to the available grip. Even with slicks I haven't been able to do that all the way as it is counter intuitive to the way you drive any other car. However, I am being more aggressive with the throttle and I can hear and feel PTM working on quite a few track corners. At VIR Turn 1 it starts working about 1/2 way around the turn as I open up the throttle. The few times I have tried to go all the way to the floor the back end would start to slide left and I would have to breathe off the throttle to keep the car pointed where I wanted it to go. Haven't had the ***** to just go wide open and see if it only stepped out a little and settled down. Not some place where I want to spin off the track at 60 mph. The least of the worries is to have the Black Flag Marshall yelling at you about why you thought that was a good idea when you go see him after a 4 off or spin.
Bill"
I read the words I put in bold, as the throttle progression is less aggressive when in PTM/WET as would be logical for GM to do for "racing in the rain!"
As I say, your call do as you wish!
But my understanding of the post is different, even the bold type. I know the sound he is talking about. It won't let the tires slip in wet mode. If you have 100% traction, the throttle is the same.
Last edited by theplatinumog; Sep 10, 2017 at 04:35 PM.
Thread Starter
E-Ray, 3LZ, ZER, LIFT
Joined: Sep 2007
Posts: 34,937
Likes: 12,350
From: NE South Carolina
I can understand why for "racing in the rain" when in PTM/WET GM has steering in Touring NOT Sport and why Throttle Progression is as Bill said;
"Wet mode will sensitize PTM to the max and reduce the change rate of throttle application."
I don't ask you or anyone to accept what I say or suggest you MUST do what I do! Some posters feel if you don't follow their recommendation you're foolish! I present my logic, what I'm doing and why and then folks do what they wish! However I'll stick with my Steering Response in Sport and my Throttle Progression around 5 with the Vitesse Controller!
Last edited by JerryU; Sep 10, 2017 at 05:13 PM.
Burning Brakes
Joined: Apr 2016
Posts: 1,210
Likes: 243
C7 of Year Finalist (track prepared) 2019
Suggest you read Bill's comment!
I can understand why for racing in the rain PTM/WET GM has steering in Touring NOT Sport and why Throttle Progression is as Bill said;
"Wet mode will sensitize PTM to the max and reduce the change rate of throttle application."
I don't ask you or anyone to accept what I say or suggest you MUST do what I do! Some posters feel if you don't follow their recommendation your foolish! I present my logic, what I'm doing and why and then folks do what they wish!
I can understand why for racing in the rain PTM/WET GM has steering in Touring NOT Sport and why Throttle Progression is as Bill said;
"Wet mode will sensitize PTM to the max and reduce the change rate of throttle application."
I don't ask you or anyone to accept what I say or suggest you MUST do what I do! Some posters feel if you don't follow their recommendation your foolish! I present my logic, what I'm doing and why and then folks do what they wish!
I promise I am not arguing to be difficult. But this is a situation where there is 1 correct answer. If I am wrong, I want to stop spreading my incorrect information!
Also, as I mentioned, I am a frequent track participant, including in the rain. I want to know exactly what my car is doing. I am a car nerd, and it might help me drive faster if I knew what it was doing.
When he says sensitized PTM he is referring to how much the tires can spin (traction control) and how much slip angle is allowed (stability control). In wet mode the computers will do what they have to to make sure neither of these happen because it assumes it is wet. If you are way below the grip threshold, like you should be on the street, there is no change in throttle progression between the PTM modes. I would love to be proven wrong.
Again, I just want to get to the bottom of this for my own understanding. It is possible that my understanding is incorrect... As a car nerd, that bothers me.
Thread Starter
E-Ray, 3LZ, ZER, LIFT
Joined: Sep 2007
Posts: 34,937
Likes: 12,350
From: NE South Carolina
^^^
If I wasn't used to driving with Steering in Sport response for 3 1/2 years in my 2014 Z51 and felt the throttle as being very responsive since it was GM's most aggressive OEM position available in 2014, I might not feel the way I do.
But I like the way the Grand Sport now matches those two settings! GM no doubt desensitized a number of things for "driving in the rain" and IMO that includes Throttle response from the most aggressive Track setting! But it is my opinion! Drive where you wish, as will I!
If I wasn't used to driving with Steering in Sport response for 3 1/2 years in my 2014 Z51 and felt the throttle as being very responsive since it was GM's most aggressive OEM position available in 2014, I might not feel the way I do.
But I like the way the Grand Sport now matches those two settings! GM no doubt desensitized a number of things for "driving in the rain" and IMO that includes Throttle response from the most aggressive Track setting! But it is my opinion! Drive where you wish, as will I!
Last edited by JerryU; Sep 10, 2017 at 05:34 PM.
Team Owner
Joined: Sep 2001
Posts: 23,283
Likes: 906
From: Lake Elsinore, CA
Tuner got the tune done and I reconnected the Vitesse - so far, so good. With the extra power now, had to initially knock the setting down to 5 from the usual 9 I run it in. Even with a centri blower, I still think this is a necessary mod.
Burning Brakes
Joined: Apr 2016
Posts: 1,210
Likes: 243
C7 of Year Finalist (track prepared) 2019
^^^
If I wasn't used to driving with Steering in Sport response for 3 1/2 years in my 2014 Z51 and felt the throttle as being very responsive since it was GM's most aggressive OEM position available in 2014, I might not feel the way I do.
But I like the way the Grand Sport now matches those two settings! GM no doubt desensitized a number of things for "driving in the rain" and IMO that includes Throttle response from the most aggressive Track setting! But it is my opinion! Drive where you wish, as will I!
If I wasn't used to driving with Steering in Sport response for 3 1/2 years in my 2014 Z51 and felt the throttle as being very responsive since it was GM's most aggressive OEM position available in 2014, I might not feel the way I do.
But I like the way the Grand Sport now matches those two settings! GM no doubt desensitized a number of things for "driving in the rain" and IMO that includes Throttle response from the most aggressive Track setting! But it is my opinion! Drive where you wish, as will I!
I am sure someone will jump on here with genuine information that will prove one of us right. Opinions are for debates that don't have one answer.
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Burning Brakes
Joined: Apr 2016
Posts: 1,210
Likes: 243
C7 of Year Finalist (track prepared) 2019
When you go into settings and change steering to be one thing the whole time, it over-rides, same with exhaust sound management (exhaust volume).
Burning Brakes
Joined: Apr 2016
Posts: 1,210
Likes: 243
C7 of Year Finalist (track prepared) 2019
Foosh, any thoughts about throttle progression, in different PTM modes, while way under the grip threshold?
Last edited by theplatinumog; Sep 10, 2017 at 06:19 PM.
Team Owner
Joined: Oct 2004
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Platinum,
Honestly, I've never focused upon or noticed significant differences in throttle progression/mapping or feel between Tour, Sport, or Track modes, as I modulate the throttle with my foot, and WOT is WOT regardless of throttle mapping differences. I've only had it in Weather mode once, and then I did notice a difference.
The reason I haven't evaluated whether "locked-in" steering settings transfer to Track/PTM mode is that I leave all my settings linked to drive mode, except for exhaust which I control w/ a M2W device. I'm usually in Sport since I installed the DSC Sport MSRC controller, but I don't mind the steering feel in Tour mode, since I strive for smoothness and not herky, jerky steering wheel movement.
Honestly, I've never focused upon or noticed significant differences in throttle progression/mapping or feel between Tour, Sport, or Track modes, as I modulate the throttle with my foot, and WOT is WOT regardless of throttle mapping differences. I've only had it in Weather mode once, and then I did notice a difference.
The reason I haven't evaluated whether "locked-in" steering settings transfer to Track/PTM mode is that I leave all my settings linked to drive mode, except for exhaust which I control w/ a M2W device. I'm usually in Sport since I installed the DSC Sport MSRC controller, but I don't mind the steering feel in Tour mode, since I strive for smoothness and not herky, jerky steering wheel movement.