OH, OK. I am just trying to get data on actual experiences to see if the real cause can be tracked down. My 2014 3LT is still perfect, but I have only owned it for two years so I have no idea of it's history.
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Once again, has anybody owned a C7 from new, not put anything on the dash, and had it delaminate.

 

I don't think either of you have ever done a Six Sigma Project or Shainin Red X. I don't think either of you understand disturbance factors or how engineers design solve and change products.

It's not worth arguing. You guys are not knowledgeable on this subject you can have your opinions but I'm telling you as an Engineer who works in Automotive and sees these type of issues on a daily basis and has had to solve some similar type problems that Raw Material, Process, and Design all can contribute to failure. That the failure can be latent (as in it will fail but does not immediately fail). I also have a Masters with a focus in Industrial Engineering which is the statistical analysis and can speak with knowledge and authority on how these things work.

But you know what's great about this country? You can have wrong opinions. So enjoy that, because you are emphatically wrong and have provided no discernible logical argument other than "I have an opinion and my opinion says you are wrong." Comments like 10 garage queens and 5 fail 5 don't are purely anecdotal. Saying yours hasn't failed is purely anecdotal (in fact that fact one hasn't failed means you just proved the rule as nothing is statistically 100%). So yes every meaning 100% do not fail but "every" as in a "Statistically significant number that almost entirely encompasses the entire population such that mentioning the exceptions is pointless" but no one is going to say that (that's where the statement "The exception proves the rule" comes from FYI).

Finally and this will of course mind bend you, eventually THEY ALL WILL FAIL. That's life, it might be 50 years from now or after the car is destroyed, but from a pure stats back ground every part of every car will eventually fail. So if you're going to get hung up on the use of the word every I can equally get hung up on your use of the word failure. Cause that's how math works.

This is what drives me NUTS about the internet, people who have some sort of knowledge and are perhaps have some expertise in their field get zero respect. But okay, you guys do you.

 

I only wipe mine down 5-6 times a year with a damp cloth, I store mine in the winter, I have tint on my windows, mine is garaged, and yes I have the failure.

Mine is failed around the dash vent, the windshield side of the passenger side failed first, maybe 4 years ago, and slowly it has gotten worse. I now have the failure on 3/4s of the vent, the windshield side of the passenger side has fully shrunk up and can no longer be tucked into the vent. The entire non-windshield side is "loose" it still is tucked in, but I can see a small bubble between the vent and the stick seam.

Finally when I was putting the car away I swear I could see a small bubble in the HUD area forming. I'll take a look at that next year, but that would be a significant spread of the issue. My car is a March built 2016 and will be 9 years old next spring (obviously). I did a museum delivery so my car was never on a transport or at a dealer. It has only been touched by the manufacturing process, the NCM, and myself.

 

I'm so fired up I went out and took pictures. One is the part that doesn't tuck in the other, I'm using my finger to push down on where the leather is "loose" does it look failed to an untrained eye? No, but if you press on it you can tell its not attached.

 

When summer comes again and it's 95 outside park your car in the sun with the windows up all day and see what happens. The glue is sh_t.

 

I have similar experience to post #44--on the dash you can push down on some areas around the dash vent and the leather will allow you to push it down, maybe 1/8th" movement. From prior reading on this and previous threads I don't think there is a remedy for this short of dash replacement, but if I have missed it, someone please correct me. Then I do have a very small bubble on the leather above the HUD. You'd only notice it if you were looking for it. 2017 GS 3LT vert here.

 

Ok thank you, I'll put you down in the, wipe it with a damp cloth every two months, column.

 

And I think this is quite common. Specifically, this is the exact failure I'm speaking of when I say every dash has the failure. And again my every is the "statistically significant part of the population"

I would guess most people who have this failure if they have no other failure don't even know its failed. Which I'm sure GM noticed on the dashes they have had to replace under warranty that had other non-catastrophic failures. Hence the design changes.

You can fix it with a syringe, some glue, and a roller, I plan to try in the spring.

 

You said all C7 3LTs have dash problems.

They don't.

 

How about an answer to the duct removal question? Anyone trying to mess around with an inspection or repair needs to remove this part. Granted, it seems like it just snaps in, but, for crying out loud, give the guy some advice on this step!

 

You're going to cling to the literal definition of "every" aren't you? I stand by my statement that all C7 3LT dashes have an area which lacks full adhesion of the glue. Is that a technicality on the word "failure"? Oh yea, is it any more technical than yours of "every"? Nope. Le's be honest, you're just being stubborn, so my response, dig in harder and longer. We can go all day, all week. My arguments will always trump yours because your argument is "I exist therefore I am correct" where as mine you know have logic and reason.

Also did you even go out and check yours? Do you have full adhesion of the leather between the vent and stitch line? Can you verify that you have absolutely no loss of adhesion anywhere in your dash? I'm guessing you haven't because you're definition of failure is likely much more stringent than mine (probably at a minimum includes lifting or bubbling). I've purposely defined failure broadly so that my statement of every is correct (even with a literal interpretation). By the way, any loss of adhesion would be defined as a failure in an engineering sense.

And yes, you have most certainly touched a nerve here. I view this as an attack on my professional credentials.

 

All 3LTs do not have dash problems.

 

Your bio says you work for Ford! Enough said....

 

Worked at multiple suppliers prior. Was the D&R (Design and Release) Engineer for the power pack (Software/ECU/Motor) on the C7 EPS too, when I was at ZFLS (now Bosch Automotive Steering). So you're driving around something I worked on. You're welcome.

 

False.

 

And what does that resume have anything to do with manufacturing, assembling and installing the C7 dashboard? Thats like me, 30 yrs in law enforcement mostly as a Sergeant in patrol and Special Ops speaking as an authority in the homicide investigation division which I never worked.

 

Same or similar processes. Glue can fail just as grease can fail, one is an adhesive and the other a lubricant but both are industrial substances.

But specifically, one of my jobs was working on Driver Authorization Systems (which is a fancy way of saying Ignition modules). Those are installed at the dash supplier. I've been at a dash supplier and did a line walk of how a dash is assembled. The one I walked on was a 2009 Dodge Ram, done by Lear, but it's a similar process for all suppliers and cars. A dash is a dash. I've also walked multiple manufacturing lines for both GM and Ford (assembly plants). As well as line walks at many suppliers.

So I'm familiar with the process in which dashes are assembled, stored, transported, and installed into automobiles. I've been around enough components to understand why there are process controls and how environment can effect things you wouldn't think it does. I have seen enough component plants and assembly plants to know that things are mostly common across them.

Which is to say, they all are highly complex processes which have many disturbance factors and that design can't account for all failure modes.

Also as a bit of publicly available information, if you look at recalls on most manufacturers the recall isn't a design issue, its a process issue. Process issues or as we call them sometimes "quality spills" are the number one way a part fails. Design issues are for all components very rigorously tested by DV and PV testing (Design Validation and Process Validation). DV Testing is where you do pure design validation usually on prototype dimensionally correct parts. PV testing is where you verify the manufacturing process, but its still very controlled so really you are only verifying the nominal process.

Over time processes are modified and new controls are put into place as its noticed that there are gaps. This is standard operating procedure for all components in automotive. Design changes are rare and only exist for two reasons, one to address a failure and two to lower cost. Changes cost money, spending money is the enemy. Building cars is a business, the goal is to build the highest quality product that meets design intent for the lowest cost.

Using all this knowledge one can make plenty of inferences about the C7 dash. Especially after seeing the failures here and pictures of torn down dashes on this forum.

 

ok, well said and explained. I would say you have more experience/knowledge in this topic than 99% of the guys here save for the one guy in the plant putting them together.
Thankfully my 2019 3LT dash is still perfect everywhere. Yes, it is a garage king(not queen) but I have not put anything on the dash except a plush microfiber towel. No water, no chemicals. Hopefully it stays in tact as it is.
I can see at just the right angle the multiple staples on the edge and from what others say is significantly more than previous model years.
I would say that if every dash is defective than why doesnt GM replace them all on their dime? Obviously the answer is money but whats more costly to them: a new dash for just 3LTs for $5-6k per car or losing a $70+ sale bc a pissed customer chooses another brand?

 

Hogwash. He may be a engineer. He may have a masters in whatever. He could have 40 different jobs in 40 different dash companies. I don't care how many alternators, starters, seats, water pumps, rugs, batteries gauge clusters etc..he worked on, designed, built, or installed. Until he SPECIFICALLY worked on and designed the C7 dash I personally don't think he is any more to believe the outcome on than Carnac the Magnificent.

 

Since its a dash and not a control arm or something like that there are not regulatory or safety concerns with the dash failing.

So when safety and regulation aren't at play it becomes a money question. How bad are the failures, will the customers tolerate them, are they cosmetic or an annoyance failure or a functional failure.

The margin on one Corvette sale is at best $10k (Pick-up trucks usually carry an average margin of $10k and they are the most profitable in the industry). But it's probably much lower since its a low volume product. From the OEMs perspective the sale is worth only the margin, obviously you need a specific amount of sales to reach an economy of scale and have your fixed costs work out. How many sales will you lose, 1, 2, 10? Also some people might not be a lost sale they just "downgrade" to 2LT and then you lose what $500 in margin? Maybe less. How much margin is on 3LT versus 2LT, its likely not a lot.

So while there had been enough cost in warranty to warrant design changes (and the cost isn't the dash, its the labor to swap the dash that has to be a 10+ hour book job at $150+ an hour), the OEM never will admit they have a part that has a latent failure unless it was safety or regulatory related. They will deal with the part failures on a case by case basis. This is how the industry works, you can't just be replacing parts you'd go bankrupt.

Now, like I said this is a non-safety, non-regulator, non-functional, cosmetic/annoyance issue (so it's at the bottom of the pile). When you are near the top, you get a voluntary recall. Which is the right thing to do, never mess with safety or regulatory items.

So while my claim is that they are all failed, the likelihood they catastrophically fail (a full delamination) is very rare and most people are not going to take it to the dealer for warranty for a minor failure, if it even happens in warranty. Once you are out of warranty it has to fail pretty bad for you to have to replace it.

Now this doesn't change the fact they want to "stop the bleeding" and fix parts for future as yet unbuilt cars. Since the C7 has now ended production, this isn't even on GM's mind anymore. Especially with all C7s out of the bumper to bumper warranty.