I think this guys is just trying to help guys!

But... So what if he designs his own product?

Data is power guys: contrary to the current government administration this is still a capitalist nation. We live in the U.S. of freaking A where innovation is king. This is why we have the capability to provide the best products in the world.

 

Jason, just put the results on your website or in your newsletter and then those of us who are interested can have access to your results without you having to be insulted. Let us know when the results are in.

 

Jason as a LONG term member of CF, I had to learn NOT to get upset by others comments. Just look and see it is usually the newest members coming on here and bad mouthing things.

I understand how you can be upset. You are trying to do a good thing and you get bashed to some degree. Even if they have some what valid and invalid points it hurts especially when you had good intentions.

So stick to your honest intentions, do the right things and let the others comments go if you can.

I wish you the best and I would appreciate seeing your test results.

 

Please post the results and ignore the baseless paranoid allegations.

This is another example of a few bad eggs ruining things for everyone else.

For the skeptics, there will be enough examples of other people that have installed these products to see if TSP "fudges" numbers.

 

I think some manufacturer's published numbers on a 100% stock LT1 are more fiction than fact. I don't care if TSP manufactures headers for some cars and trucks or not, I would like to see the results of an engine dyno comparison on stock LT1. If other manufacturers want to dispute they can run their own comparison tests. I have a friend that installed top shelf LT's on his 7k mile ZR1 (no names of friend or manufacturer being posted) and he gained 10 rwhp and I believe around 19 rwtq. On my bolt-on C5 at one time I gained 8 rwhp and 11 rwtq, tuned before (336 rwhp) and after (344 rwhp) same dyno an hour apart after install. I expressed my extreme disappointment spending over $2k for headers tuned installed (top shelf LT's 1-7/8 to 3" catless X) for 8/11 so the tuner tried again to no avail to get a any more power.

I am 100% certain headers benefit performance but don't tell me 40/40 on stock LT1 and I get 15/15 or 20/20. No doubt every LT1 has a little variance but I am certain that different dynos have more variance and the operators could also influence the charts we see posted. Katech showed 10 hp and 17 tq on their engine dyno with dyno headers not influenced by fitment constraints. They do not manufacture headers but I consider them the foremost authority on engines, performance, reliability and repeatability.

Don't be so ready to "drink the Kool-Aid". Results have to stand up to scrutiny, period. Many of us have allegiance to certain manufacturers just like we like certain sports teams, musicians, auto manufacturers, etc....BUT, don't put blinders on you so much so that you get scared you may have purchased a part that has been bested by another manufacturers part. Competition drives innovation and manufacturers to look for that extra % of improvement with every iteration of their product........the C7 is perfect example of innovation.

I am very interested in seeing Jason's findings and hope he still goes through with the test after all the whining. Anyone that wants to dispute please do so AFTER he posts results and use facts not emotion to back up your case.

Read below link of Car Craft magazine article and draw your own conclusions.


http://www.carcraft.com/techarticles...t/viewall.html

 

I can tell you for sure I gained 40hp and 40+tq with tune on my C7. We did 3 baseline pulls and 3 pulls after. Those were the results.

 

The tune was likely at least half your gain, congrats

 

I'd like to add my thoughts on this dyno test. Jason has a set of our long tubes headers he'll be putting thru their paces but as I explained to him in a PM earlier, our headers have already been tested by some very reputable shops. Matt at Tune Time, Graham at Lingenfelter, Fran at Race Proven, Stephen at LMR, Nick at Fastlane, Mike at Hennessey to name a few, can all fill you in on what ARH C7 header systems produce.
And to make a slight correction to something mentioned earlier by Jason, we dyno test to death every design we manufacture and for the C7 we have 2 distinctly different designs. Jason only has our long tube system. i welcome him to test our Mid Lengths as they are killer.
Keep in mind that we're in the HP making business where everything we build is highly scrutinized. Our goal, with every set of headers we build, is maximizing power and make sure the system provides the least amount of compromises.
We only build headers and we know exactly what needs to be done to produce the desired results long before the first pipe is even bent. This is why ARH is used exclusively by GM, Ford and Chrysler on all their race programs.
Good luck with your test Jason. We especially appreciate working with Texas Speed. Top notch shop for sure!

Nick
A.R. Headers

 

tune only??
I had the same thing on my c5 it was the tuned combined with the headers not just the headers. I think I gained 36rwhp, People are so act amazed like this motor produces more hp with headers and tune then previois models but it's no freaking different then the previous gens it just makes more base hp. It's been going on since hell the c5 probably the c4( I have no clue what that original lt1 with headers and a tune does). The new lt1 is no different. The ls3 ls2 ls7 ls9 ls1 etc with headers and a tune will all be about 30-40 hp. I laugh when people are like OMG you gained 40 hp with tune and headers the lt1 is so incredible. I wanna say and what's incredidble? That's been going on since the 90's? The lt1 is a great motor it seems but it's no second coming of Christ people like the ls motors when they first came out...

That last part is a joke..kinda

 

Allow me to qualify my prior post with added detail. There was more than one test of LT headers WITHOUT TUNE that claimed 30 - 40+ gains in both horsepower and torque at the rear wheels. Should we expect more with tune??? That would be amazing if proven so. That to ME is an example of a claim requiring third party validation for ME to believe. Everyone can spend and believe as it suits them because it is their money. My single goal for posting is to give my support for TSP to test products and then vendors and members post comments regarding their review of results. In business we develop a plan "together" then try to blow holes in it. A good business plan holds up under scrutiny but likely has revisions. I would prefer to purchase a product that stands up under scrutiny and would likely stay clear of a product that either will not test or tested poorly.

 

Thanks for the test. I always look at the entire package, some headers hang to low and drag, some run to close to the starter wires and burn them up, some give a ting/ting noise that sound cheep, some rust, some have big adds on the top "made by XXX". Some add weight, some cost 4K are are knockoffs. It is the entire package to include price. HP is just one of about 6 things I look for in a header, low end power is #1. You can keep your 50hp headers if they take away 10 at 2000RPM. Let see some numbers!!

 

Great to hear. I'm assuming you will custom tune the base car first, so we have a nice baseline?

And then custom tune after each header install?

 

Citation, unless you're driving a diesel pulling a 15000lb trailer that maxes out at 3500 rpm, what these cars do at 2000 rpm isn't nearly as relevent. Having said that, our C7 systems produce excellent power gains right of the hit of the throttle.

Nick
A.R. Headers

 

It is SALES. Sometimes a lot like politics. How often do you see a head swap where there are absolutely no other changes to the engine...very seldom because the increase in power is not enough for most to pay the dollars. Same with headers. No tune, no changing the rest of exhaust components...15 hp makes the 2k bill harder to swallow than 40hp gain.
It is nice that shops like Vengeance put out what the tune made on the stock car before they begin mods. That is an open to the world way of documenting what the mods actually do. It does seem that this iteration of the lsx engines picks up more with a tune than previous versions.

 

I never understood the low end stuff, how often are you WOT at 2k. Even if you lost a bit down low you apply 50% throttle compared to 40%. If you are racing or using 100% throttle the auto either downshifts or you downshift. If people are racing starting at 2k rpm then they need driving lessons, not more low end power.

 

Why are headers so damn expensive for the LT1 than they are for the LS?
It couldn't have taken THAT much R&D to make these

 

Same reason a C7 is selling for MSRP and C6's were discounted.

They are new and the people that gotta have them will pony up the extra dough.

 

Guys I guess I'm giving up on this, not one brand header has shown up after I made the post I was going to test headers side by side.

Oh we'll the worlds first stroker lt1 is going on the dyno now!

 

Very disappointed that no manufacturers had enough confidence in their product to test. I know they all claim to be the best if you call to purchase

 

Jason, I thought our headers were there already. You did order a set correct?

Nick
A.R. Headers