It's a bit late for me to check right now but I'm almost certain a set of our long tubes are in their possession. Correct me if I'm wrong Jason. Thanks.

Nick
A,R. Headers

 

Tracking the shipment order # will confirm it one way or another

 

X2 Please

 

Its awesome ARH is stepping up and is eager to see their headers tested independently. If you notice, Nick at ARH answers very technical questions and gives detailed answers to his headers. ...

In the performance automotive industry there are companies that market and hype their products using the K&N Filters method, then there are companies whose products need less marketing and hype as their quality and performance stand above the rest based on its superiority over the competition- and ARH is that company. Glad to be running their header.

 

For those too lazy to read your link:
We'll go out on a limb here by saying that in the coming years, the Gen III small-block will become the dominant engine in performance engine circles. Eventually, this small-block family will overshadow even the original small-block Chevy juggernaut. That time is coming, friends, and for good reason.

Ls1 Header Test Lead Display
Last month we outlined many of the details required to get one of these latest-generation factory small-blocks running on the dyno, which is the same situation you'll face when you bolt one of these engines into an early musclecar. Last month's baseline revealed the engine made 402 hp at 5,700 rpm and 398 lb-ft of torque at 4,300 rpm just as it rolled out of the box. Then we removed the engine to make way for a series of thumper race engines on Duttweiler's Digilog dyno. Once our LS1 was back on the pump, we baselined the engine again before proceeding with this month's header test.

If you refer to last month's dyno run, you can see that this exact same engine running on the same dyno with the exact same parts, did not make exactly the same power. We've discussed this with our pal Steve Cole at The Turbo Shop (TTS) and the power difference we witnessed relates, in part, to removing the electrical power from the computer. This clears the memory, and the computer must then start from scratch in terms of trimming the power as the tests continue. We mention this just as a point of reference to help you see how complex the procedure is when testing these new engines on an engine dyno.

The GM Performance Parts LS1, that our friends at Scoggin-Dickey Performance Center in Lubbock, Texas, are helping us test, comes in an interesting configuration. According to our pals at GM Performance Parts, this engine is actually a GTO engine, but it comes with an F-car (Camaro/Firebird) oil pan and Corvette-configured exhaust manifolds. The exhaust manifolds became a very important consideration once we started our dyno-testing.

Manifold Destiny

Ls1 Header Test Dyno Cell
Here's the Scoggin-Dickey LS1 in Duttweiler's recently overhauled dyno cell. Note that all
We started by rebaselining our LS1, which generated 396 hp at a somewhat high 6,100 rpm and a torque peak of 391 lb-ft at 4,900. With virtually every production engine we've ever tested, the first thing you can do to gain power is to throw on a set of headers. Steve Cole at TTS volunteered a set of 1 5/8-, 1 3/4- and 1 7/8-inch headers to try across our stock Gen III engine. It's important that we mention that TTS doesn't offer 1 5/8-inch headers for either a Corvette or a late-model Camaro. But since we wanted to see what the headers could do, Steve created a set especially for our test.

We really thought the 1 5/8-inch headers would work best, because our Light Speed LS1 was stone stock. But we should have known that Steve's been around awhile and his knowledge base on these Gen III engines is extensive. So our first comparison was with the 1 5/8-inch headers versus the Vette iron manifolds. We did not include a full dyno comparison of these headers, because you can see from the peak numbers that this smaller header ran acceptably against the stock Vette manifolds. However, the average torque and horsepower numbers are actually very close. The headers enjoyed a larger 2 1/2-inch exhaust pipe compared to a compression-bent 2 1/4-inch system for the iron manifolds, and the Flowmaster mufflers remained the same for all the tests. Hmmmm....

We decided to test the next larger set of 1 3/4-inch TTS headers to see how well they performed. This time, the numbers were a bit more rewarding. These larger headers only equaled the horsepower of the iron Vette manifolds, and the peak torque was up 5 lb-ft, the average torque (which is the real key to any comparison) increased slightly, yet average horsepower was up negligibly.

Next, our intrepid dyno-tester Ed Taylor bolted on a set of 1 7/8-inch headers, which would seem on the surface to be much too large for a stock engine at this horsepower level. Once again, we're learning that the LS1 is a different animal. Average torque and horsepower increased marginally, yet we made the highest peak power level of 402 hp-up 6 hp over the best the 1 5/8-inch tubes and the iron Vette manifolds made.

Ls1 Header Test Vette Manifold
Don't be so quick to toss those cast-iron exhaust manifolds in the trash, especially if th
Ls1 Header Test Camaro Manifolds
Compare these Camaro-style exhaust manifolds with the previous photo of the Corvette-style
Ls1 Header Test Gm Steel Header Gasket
We also used GM's own exhaust gaskets even with the headers. These are high-quality steel
The amazing performance of the stock iron Vette manifolds prompted us to test a set of iron F-car manifolds, which are significantly different from the Vette pieces. Here, the performance was dramatically down, dropping an average 9 hp, 9 lb-ft of torque, and 12 peak horsepower compared to the Vette manifolds. Clearly, there is a significant difference between the two iron manifolds. If the Vette manifolds will work in your chassis, there's much to be said for these off-the-shelf pieces.

Ls1 Header Test Tts 158
The Turbo Shop (TTS) supplied the headers for our test. They don't make a production set o
Evaluation

So what did we learn from this exhaustive flog-fest? First, the Vette manifolds for a stock LS1 even at the 400hp level, are extremely efficient. We learned that larger primary pipe tubes tend to work well on a stock LS1, which leads us to think they will work even better on a modified engine with a better cam and heads. There is data to support the notion that longer primary pipe lengths approaching 40 inches plus a longer collector length may be worth more torque. Generally, we'll see torque improvements with a longer collector, but these TTS headers were designed to fit in a late-model F-car as opposed to perhaps a first-gen Chevelle or Camaro where there would be more room for a longer collector and primary pipe lengths.

Ls1 Header Test Tts Flange
The TTS headers feature extremely thick 1/2-inch flanges to prevent warping, so all we had
The bottom line is that a stockLS1 can obviously make as much as 400 hp using stock Vette iron exhaust manifolds, so don't toss those Vette pieces in the trash! It is also clear that the right size headers can still improve power on one of these engines with the right combination of parts.

Stick with us as we look into the best ways to make more power with our GM Performance Parts LS1. The idea here is to make power without resorting to spending a ton of money. We want to make this LS1 sing for a song.





Very Interesting.....

 

Please don't give up! My guess it your timing is just a little off, most companies I've called do not even have any product in stock. It was like this when C6 first came out. Give it some more time

 

I don't mind if members want to test with me.

I'm not attempting to pick one header over another. What I told every manufacturer is I'm not selling off b.s. claims. Every part we add to our site in the c7 section will have a dyno sheet specifically from testing at our facility.

Imagine if ever manufacturers claims were right, we'd have 600rwhp bolt on cars! LOL

Actually I'll do the same thing on intake tubes.

We're currently doing the same thing on our camshafts. We've made hundreds of engine dyno pulls on our first dyno lt1 already. I'm up around 625 flywheel horsepower with a heads cam combo. These numbers I've reproduced several times. That's important because we want to be able to give our customers power numbers they can expect.

 

Headers like the ARH "mid length" may not require tune (maintaining warranty as long as removed before at dealership for repairs). Some headers may not offer highest peak numbers but have largest average increase across curve, have better low end power, better peak power, etc... In the final analysis there may be no real loser but different headers to fit each owners priorities/needs. Providing highest peak power is only one parameter to evaluate.

 

Here's where this test is different. Our headers are Mid Lengths with primaries in the 23" range. Some would call them long tubes but they aren't. What they are is made with the proper tube size and collector design to accommodate the tube length. There's no smoke and mirrors here guys. It's a design that we knew would work because this is what we do.

Nick

 

If C6 systems are anything like bike exhaust systems, there may be very little difference between the setups, once you account for a base tune (w/o header change).

The results would be great for consumers.

 

FWIW, we currently have the Pfadt Tri Y headers on our C7 producing 511RWHP/442RWTQ... Nick @ ARH is sending down his mid length headers as well as a complete long tube system... If Kooks/LG or anyone else is reading this and wants to have their header systems compared back to back on the same dyno/same car I will be happy to absorb the labor.

**Disclaimer** The only variable in this test will be that both longtube systems are NON Catted and the mid length from ARH will utilize the factory cats/mid section.

*** Disclaimer*** We are a dealer for Pfadt and American Racing. We offered Kooks for many years until other shops started giving them away. We have zero issue with LG and we have zero intentions of producing headers ever

Dyno Graphs/Coolant Temp/Data Logs/Timing/Air Fuel will all be available for scrutiny.

Vengeance Racing doesn't sell hype... We sell horsepower.

 

ARH headers have arrived... Kooks/LG you guys want in on this?

 

We have arh arriving soon, 1 7/8" kooks in stock and 2" in route.

 

Glad to see this is finally happening. Who else is included

 

Good to hear. We arent quite the ballers you guys are so our testing will be done using our C7 on our chassis dyno

We plan to make three baseline pulls with the Pfadt headers/Install ARH mid lengths/make three pulls (adjust tune if needed)/Install ARH 1 7/8 Longtubes and repeat... All parameters will be recorded. We will do this all in the same day to avoid any difference in weather etc. If any tuning is required we will post tuned Vs un tuned #s as well for comparison.

I haven't gotten a response from Kooks or LG, so I guess this will be ARH mid Vs ARH Long Vs Pfadt.

BTW, congrats to you guys for your #s on your stroker. I am surprised that I dont have a set of PRC heads here to compliment our 511rwhp cam only set up

 

Kudos to Jason @ Texas Speed and Ron @ Vengeance Racing!! Speaking for myself it's great to see vendors willing to put it out there for their customers to see what we are actually spending our hard earned dollars for. It shows me that you stand behind what you sell because in all likelihood if there is a substandard performer it will not likely have a place in your offering. Also if a manufacturer is not willing to share independent results I for one would be hesitant to purchase their product.

To be fair to all participants, you should post on a spreadsheet the power levels at 200 rpm increments with a column for the difference between manufacturers choosing one as a baseline. The baseline may be the highest across the board but it gives a point of reference that will show comparative strengths and weaknesses of each brand across the rpm spectrum. It would also give the manufacturers a chance to shine in a certain rpm range while also showing that the header with the most peak power may only be at top rpms not necessarily the best choice for a customers build.

Something like this illustrated in link below.

http://www.carcraft.com/techarticles...t/viewall.html

 

We have em in stock Ron. The cam cars do make tons of power, with our new lobes we've made over 600 hp with a cam through stock manifolds!

 

I agree with your skepticism, but I believe the LT1 is different. GM has corked up the power for 2014 to keep ponies in it's back pocket for future "power increases" to boost sales as the vehicle ages. Adding DI should have produced a 15% gain from the 436HP LS3 and the stock LT1 output falls far short of that. The power is there - you just have to add a less restrictive exhaust. We already have proven authentic dyno results that back the 40HP/50TQ gains, which happen to put the LT1 at the 15% gain over the NPP LS3 that it should have had.

I would very much like to see this comparison, and as a future header customer, would only consider purchasing headers that were part of an independent test like this, or for which independent results exist. Since TSP does not have its own header at this point and won't for a while, I see no issue with them doing the test. Besides, it's not as if they can't buy a set as a regular customer any time they wish and test it any time they want. The fact that they are doing this publicly while soliciting cooperation from the manufacturers makes this a transparent and stand-up process.

My wish, however, would be to see the test done on a stock-configured LT1 with no internal mods. Hi flow intaked and a tune seems fair and necessary. If you test but don't tune for optimal AFR, the manufacturers are going to complain that you did not give their header a fair chance, e.g. "my header flows so m,uch more than the others that it needed a tune to show full potential". Having another tuner present (e.g. Charlie at RPM or Doug at ECS) to verify the tune would be a big plus.

 

cant wait. when is the dyno day?

 

My skepticism mainly targeted at 40/50 gains with no tune as claimed in early threads. With tune only we see 25/25 or thereabout, so LT's + tune I have no issue with 40/50 gains. I agree that initial tests should include filter/cai/tune because anyone spending $2k on headers will no doubt add a better flowing filter or CAI with filter.