NPP Help!
Drifting
Joined: Jul 2007
Posts: 1,454
Likes: 4
From: Massapequa NY
...I know you do not want to hear this but you are either going to have to get straight up valves that will close with voltage or try and have PWM circuit built so you can hit it with a + or- and output to the 2 valves a digital signal ( PWM)....sorry for the bad news.Good luck I hope you can work thru this as many others I am sure would like to do this mod
Melting Slicks
Joined: May 2001
Posts: 2,596
Likes: 120
From: East Tennessee
Its could be a stepper motor if it has a learn procedure, like an IAC motor. If its a stepper motor then it wont work without some kind of PWM.
If you look at the wiring diagram the front actuators have what appears to be feedback to the CCM (pin 3), its hard for the CCM to know where the motor is without some kind of feedback but it can figure position from where it stops on both limits by counting pusles.
I could easily build a PWM driver if its a stepper motor, if I ever pick up a NPP with the rear valves my main interest would be getting it to work with the CCm/factory setup. I'm sure in a year or so there will be a lot more NPP systems for sale and i may pick one up to play with.
If you look at the wiring diagram the front actuators have what appears to be feedback to the CCM (pin 3), its hard for the CCM to know where the motor is without some kind of feedback but it can figure position from where it stops on both limits by counting pusles.
I could easily build a PWM driver if its a stepper motor, if I ever pick up a NPP with the rear valves my main interest would be getting it to work with the CCm/factory setup. I'm sure in a year or so there will be a lot more NPP systems for sale and i may pick one up to play with.
Drifting
Joined: Jul 2007
Posts: 1,454
Likes: 4
From: Massapequa NY
Its could be a stepper motor if it has a learn procedure, like an IAC motor. If its a stepper motor then it wont work without some kind of PWM.
If you look at the wiring diagram the front actuators have what appears to be feedback to the CCM (pin 3), its hard for the CCM to know where the motor is without some kind of feedback but it can figure position from where it stops on both limits by counting pusles.
I could easily build a PWM driver if its a stepper motor, if I ever pick up a NPP with the rear valves my main interest would be getting it to work with the CCm/factory setup. I'm sure in a year or so there will be a lot more NPP systems for sale and i may pick one up to play with.
If you look at the wiring diagram the front actuators have what appears to be feedback to the CCM (pin 3), its hard for the CCM to know where the motor is without some kind of feedback but it can figure position from where it stops on both limits by counting pusles.
I could easily build a PWM driver if its a stepper motor, if I ever pick up a NPP with the rear valves my main interest would be getting it to work with the CCm/factory setup. I'm sure in a year or so there will be a lot more NPP systems for sale and i may pick one up to play with.
that would be the way to go.... But I believe the oem setup (hardware & software ) just isn't there if NPP was not ordered with car ....I would have thought otherwise,but I believe others have confirmed no harness by the NPP valves.
Melting Slicks
Joined: May 2001
Posts: 2,596
Likes: 120
From: East Tennessee
But I'm not going to go through all that until I have an NPP here to put on
The stepper motor makes sense but its not the fastest way to go, I'm not sure how long it takes for the rear valves to go from open to closed, I know the front AFM valves are pretty quick, thats why I just ASSumed they were pretty much on or off.
Drifting
Joined: Jul 2007
Posts: 1,454
Likes: 4
From: Massapequa NY
The CCM is there, and 12V is easy enough to get. Most likely the pin on the CCM conenctor isnt populated but I have pigtails that will work, then I can just hook a scopemeter to it and see if there is any activity with sound management on or off. I doubt it will be active since it appears if you unplug the rear actuators on a NPP car you will get a CEL, so I have read anyhow.
But I'm not going to go through all that until I have an NPP here to put on
The stepper motor makes sense but its not the fastest way to go, I'm not sure how long it takes for the rear valves to go from open to closed, I know the front AFM valves are pretty quick, thats why I just ASSumed they were pretty much on or off.
But I'm not going to go through all that until I have an NPP here to put on
The stepper motor makes sense but its not the fastest way to go, I'm not sure how long it takes for the rear valves to go from open to closed, I know the front AFM valves are pretty quick, thats why I just ASSumed they were pretty much on or off.
hope it works out for you when you get around to it
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Melting Slicks
Joined: May 2001
Posts: 2,596
Likes: 120
From: East Tennessee
I wouldnt mind getting my hands on an actuator to play with though, little too expensive to buy new just to experiment with
Thread Starter
Team Owner
Joined: Mar 2005
Posts: 20,933
Likes: 905
From: salem OR
I would just think a stepper motor would be kind of slow, but I guess it really doesnt have to be super fast since its just controlling noise. The front AFM valves seem to be pretty quick but you get a 'burp' that lasts a second or so if you are right between V4 and V8 and the right amount of throttle.
I wouldnt mind getting my hands on an actuator to play with though, little too expensive to buy new just to experiment with
I wouldnt mind getting my hands on an actuator to play with though, little too expensive to buy new just to experiment with
No good to me this way!
I should send you one of my $310.00 motors as it is a paperweight right now!
Drifting
Joined: Jul 2007
Posts: 1,454
Likes: 4
From: Massapequa NY
I would just think a stepper motor would be kind of slow, but I guess it really doesnt have to be super fast since its just controlling noise. The front AFM valves seem to be pretty quick but you get a 'burp' that lasts a second or so if you are right between V4 and V8 and the right amount of throttle.
I wouldnt mind getting my hands on an actuator to play with though, little too expensive to buy new just to experiment with
I wouldnt mind getting my hands on an actuator to play with though, little too expensive to buy new just to experiment with
Drifting
Joined: Jul 2007
Posts: 1,454
Likes: 4
From: Massapequa NY
Before throwing in the towel....you have a lot invested already try one of these....it should work.
Melting Slicks
Joined: May 2001
Posts: 2,596
Likes: 120
From: East Tennessee
I'll find an actuator eventually, I wouldnt want to burn up one of yours experimenting.
Tech Contributor
Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 4,761
Likes: 240
From: Saint Louis MO
St. Jude Donor '14-'15
Starting to get fun in this thread with a bunch of EEs.
Drifting
Joined: Jul 2007
Posts: 1,454
Likes: 4
From: Massapequa NY
Take a look at the standalone PWM module....I believe that should be the ticket for a npp conversion for simple open and close via something like mild to wild
Tech Contributor
Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 4,761
Likes: 240
From: Saint Louis MO
St. Jude Donor '14-'15
I think you might have nailed it here. If so, this would work for both sides, as well. (non-NPP to NPP, and vice versa).
I might have to play with this for $11.
I might have to play with this for $11.
Melting Slicks
Joined: May 2001
Posts: 2,596
Likes: 120
From: East Tennessee
The PWM control may work, but I think its a stepper arrangement and if thats the case its not pwm but just a certain number of pulses to reach a desired position. Only thing about that is it would have to reverse polarity to the motor to go the other way, but it may just remove the ground to reset the motor and start over since its spring loaded.
Hard to tell without actually having an actuator though
Hard to tell without actually having an actuator though
Drifting
Joined: Jul 2007
Posts: 1,454
Likes: 4
From: Massapequa NY
The PWM control may work, but I think its a stepper arrangement and if thats the case its not pwm but just a certain number of pulses to reach a desired position. Only thing about that is it would have to reverse polarity to the motor to go the other way, but it may just remove the ground to reset the motor and start over since its spring loaded.
Hard to tell without actually having an actuator though
Hard to tell without actually having an actuator though
Edit re read...you mean the actuator it self...got it.
Pretty sure that covers it
Last edited by vetehead; May 27, 2014 at 04:02 PM.
Melting Slicks
Joined: May 2001
Posts: 2,596
Likes: 120
From: East Tennessee
But stepper motors use a set number of pulses to control them.
Most stepper motors take 200 pulses for one complete rotation, so if you need 180 degrees the controller sends out 100 pulses and stops or holds power until the next change is needed. Thats how they can work fairly accurately with no feedback.
It may work for a simple open/shut, only one way to find out.
