So now you twist my point around like you did coSPEED.

If you cannot see that the pics LMR posted of the two hoses routed to the chin and venting to atmosphere are creating 2 draft tubes then there is not much point in further discussion here.

You like the LMR catch can and no discussion of its strengths or weakness by others will change your mind. Ok. Enjoy. I like that there are other vendors and products designed to work correctly on a street driven car.

Oh, and more frequent oil changes does not alleviate the problems with a vented to atmosphere system. The acid vapors and other combustion products stay in the engine and not swept out. Long term this leads to very dirty internals and other related problems. We can see this is of no concern to you. Ok, thats fine but it is to others, including GM and me.

 

sorry guys, Higgs is right here. If you want to say something does not work, you need to be d@mn well prepared to back up the claim with documented proof crediting your statement. Anything else is simply assumption based on your knowledge (or lack thereof) of how you "feel" a specific product functions or how good it does what it claims to do.

Ant

 

Higgs... your a smart guy. I have seen many of your posts. On this subject we are all looking for a solution to valves being "Coked"(i think that's the term). We can all see you defending the LMR system. This is the way I might have went except in doing my due diligence there may be a flaw in the system.

Discovering that there may be long term issues with a non-sealed or vent to atmosphere can was a deal breaker (good thing it costs a lot), made me look into it more. In reading all CoSpeeds info, it helped me understand the point he was making (even though a little wordy and aggressive) it made sense. Your asking him if he has used or tested a system he does not believe works (Don't need to jump off building to know what will....) Thus you ask him for data and you provide none yourself! If your an engineer you understand what he is saying even though you don't like it, and see the down side of the LMR can.

No dog in fight for me yet... I would like to see if others have came to the same conclusions.

The tone of the thread is a little aggressive but its the internet... getting used to it. It was much better on this forum 10 years ago, when modding my C6Z. Still good info. just need to be thick skinned and put the filter on!

NWblue

 

Can you specify which words of yours I "twisted?" Are you sure it's not a case of you having a myopic perspective and not really sure where I was coming from in the first place, don't know me, you're new here and haven't read enough yet, etc? Nothing got twisted except possibly your understanding of the situation.

First, let's be sure we know what a draft tube is....
A draft tube is basically a tube dangling from the valve cover to just above the road surface. Is that really what you think the LMR solution is? The only reason the tubes are routed there AFTER the baffled catch can is to alleviate some customers' concerns of smelling the vented gasses through the HVAC system. The LMR can is baffled and oil won't spill out the hoses or the filters if you have the old system. It is not a draft tube system at all. In fact, that is ridiculous.

And B, do I like the LMR can? Sure, for what it is meant to do, it is the best solution on the market. I did not have a wonderful experience with LMR getting the can and the right pieces for it to work, but again, that's another topic, so don't think I'm some LMR fanboy. They aren't perfect. But if you want something that does what no other crankcase cleanup/PCV system does on the market and that is keep 100% of the crankcase garbage out of your combustion chamber and intake manifold then the LMR unit is the best (and only afaik) out there. If you are ok with some of it getting by and into your intake as a compromise then use a regular catch can, by all means. The LMR unit is a no compromise product. It's not for everyone, and again, I never said it was.

Third, if it's a concern for you then don't use it. You seem way more interested in making sure everyone doesn't use it than I am in seeing that they do. I could not care less what catch can someone uses, but again, if you're going to make a point, be prepared to prove it.

 

I just want to make sure it is understood that I have never denied the drawbacks of an open system. Again, I don't run one one my daily (which has the same engine as the C7).....Again, I drive my C7 2000 miles in a year, not often. My oil changes will not be more frequent as I do them once a year no matter what. My guess is that most arguing about "needing" a closed system will also not modify their car enough to justify the use of an open system in the first place.

Let's remember why it was even developed in the first place, for boosted applications creating positive pressure in the crank case and pushing oil out of the pcv lines into the intake or just creating leaks.....btw, what's the thread title again? The stock style pcv system is simply not enough for that. If you are stock or have regular bolt on mods, you don't need the LMR, it's super overkill.

I only get worked up when I smell bullsht. I don't think I have ever defended a product just based on "me liking it better" or as mentioned above, "because I bought one." I think I have bought one of them all.

Not to mention all this BS was started by coSpeed in the first place starting with post 13. He proceeds to tell everyone they are wrong (presumably because they didn't order one of his products)....and starts with me on post 27. Sorry, I'll fight about it.

 

I have to somewhat agree with Higgs on this in the fact that coSpeed has completely turned me off from EVER ordering anything from him based solely off of his courtesy towards a public forum. He has done nothing but bash other vendors rather than simply promote his own products. He also lays claims that other members simply do not know as much as he does. His first comment in his reply to my question ("Read in detail my explanation below several times to retain as much as possible."- then continued to explain AGAIN the functions of the PCV system) was just simply rude, implying that I didn't know anything about the PCV system. Whether I do or not isn't the question, he just assumed I didn't. I simply asked what system he recommended then if not the LMR. It's funny, you don't see the other forum vendors on here, go on and on bashing the competitors. Most of them even openly admit that the competitors also have good products and instead just point out the pros of their own rather than the cons of others. I actually currently have a RX dual valve catch can installed on my car along with the clean side separator. However I am looking to add a supercharger, long tube headers with high flow catted x pipe, meth, and a tune...and I was looking for a simple answer as to what system he recommended. Didn't need the lecture. I had already read his other posts and found them informative which is why I asked for his recommendation.

 

I agree the vendors comments turn me off also....that being said is the Z06 system pictured a good solution?

Sounds way cheaper and may do what is needed.

 

A draft tube is a simply a tube with an open end positioned in such a way that the end of the tube is in the slipstream of air moving past the vehicle when in motion. It creates a low pressure zone inside the tube (drafting). The use of the low pressure zone is irrelevant in its definition. As I stated if you cannot agree that what LMR depicted is a draft tube arrangement then there is little use of further technical discussion. You simply do not understand the terms used and will not attempt to do so.

As for the rest of the hurt feelings mumbo jumbo, I offer a sincere apology for any that I caused, was never my intent. Yes I am new here but not new at all to the performance car world. Just having switched brands after many years on the other side of the fence. Issues and engineering principles are the same regardless.

It is unfortunate that a vendor with obvious technical knowledge and background on a subject at hand has offended so many with the way in which the information was presented. I did not see things that way but its obvious others did.

Based on the technical information presented on both forums, I have indeed made a decision on which system will be installed on my Z06.

 

I agree with you that the technical data presented was knowledgeable and also may have persuaded me away from a LMR set up which is what I was leaning towards for my build as my car will mostly be driven on the street and I will want reliability and longevity above performance. I just don't like the way said vendor has conducted their self in such a manner. I'm actually happy knowing that I may not have the need to purchase a LMR kit (considering their price point) and that my current RX dual valve catch can and RX clean side separator may in fact be the best solution for my goals. However, I will require more input and recommendation from qualified installers (most likely whatever Vengeance Racing tells me what they think is best for my application) before I make my final decision on which route I take. I'm not doubting coSpeed's technical knowledge, I mean he states that he is more than qualified on such a topic, however I will take the word of a well known builder such as Vengeance who lets their reputation speak for them rather than speaking for themselves.

 

14 bays, 7 lifts, enclosed climate controlled dyno (AWD eddy current loaded. Use primarily HP Tuners now, but before that LT1 edit, then LS1 Edit (in the old days). Tech!! at the dealership. But, you ignore our questions to you and just twist it around to the attack. One sided opinions is all you have posted in this thread to date. Most of us are intelligently discussing in great detail with supporting reference material (yes, you can find the industry papers searching Google,and most should). So you continue to want to cause a fight and dram instead of keeping on track. Sad for those that want to actually learn. You were the one that "threw the first punch", and no matter how asked to stay on track and provide supporting data from the industry, you seem to want to make this a "mess". I want no fight, but the mis-information is crazy. Stick to facts and answer some of the direct questions if you truly want a civil discussion here. Please!

And to those offended, I have no intent to offend, but it is difficult when so much accurate verifiable data is posed and one or two "bad apples" come in and start attacking w/out listing the data to back up there attacks. My apologies if this offends others, I did not throw the first punch, and turned the other cheek plenty. All I ask is to leave emotions aside, favoritism, etc. and look at factual, verifiable data.

One last thing, anyone with the road draft tube LMR, please remove those vent lines and inspect to see if there is any sign of oil as god particle claims. I cannot see how there would not be as so many complained when those oily vapors were vented into the engine compartment. Also, I go into great detail and provide the data and documentation because without this, I would be just another "keyboard warrior" claiming expertise just because "I said so" instead of actually backing up what I am sharing with reference material most can find and verify themselves.

 

One other thing I forgot (and again, no intent to offend any) is on the C7 Z06, With any of the cans that do not have provisions to plug the OEM tube hidden under the super charger that allows the oil in in the first place, just remove your SC top cover (takes 5 minutes) and look at the insides...and please post pictures of what you see. I am really interested to see what those running the vented/breathered systems find as well as any other brands they are running. Would be a good way to see how well the oil is being stopped and give others here a chance to be part of this discussion showing how well their system is working. Also, anyone is free to install any system they choose on their car, just remember this discussion down the road if you install a system that does not evacuate/remove the damaging compounds that a breathered/vented system leaves in the crankcase to accumulate and damage the engine. If I come off strong, it is a concern that so many will be seeing engine damage and prematurely worn engines down the road when it is to late.

And for Vengeance, they do awesome work and are more knowledgeable than most.

 

Interesting to say the least. 2k a year--I do that in a few weeks or in a weekend. I do not want to run an open system it is not legal--try selling the car with that on. You can get into some problems by it venting into the air causing smog alerts!

Been using the cans in question for years now. NOT just on the LT4 the LT1 14 Denali truck or my Jeep and they do keep the oil, water and other contaminates out see it every few weeks when I drain the cans.

People get emotional about what is on their car even if they just drive it on Sundays to the coffee house or the car wash. Mine are all drivers and I put a lot of miles on them do not care if it is my AMG or a truck which I leave Friday btw for the ranch in NM on Friday returning Sunday. Another 1200 round trip.. Lot's of miles show that they do work.

Don't like to post on threads where chest beating is going on about a product that I know works---never going to convince the other guy anyway so there is no point.

 

sorry, coSpeed but you have made your case, and I have made mine. nothing you can do now. read the posts, everyone can see who threw the first punch....maybe mine is just the first one that connected.

enjoy your day. ;-)

 

Please show me you empirical testing data that shows this please? I for one would love to see it. If there is something better and Legal I will consider it but being I drive quite a bit and do not want my truck or cars to smell like the drill sites I visit on the ranch!

My intakes are all clean as a whistle not to mention my SC on the LT4.

 

Best reply you've had yet! Now you're getting somewhere! So my question to you is (and I'm just looking for all opinions and inputs from as many knowledgeable persons as possible)... Will the standard RX dual valve catch can set up and a clean side separator work/suffice for a Z51 Stingray (LT1) with a cintri SC/headers/met/tune set up, work (I will be putting down approximately 600-620whp when said and done)? Or is there something better suited for that specific application? I like the idea of a closed system but fear it not being able to handle the extra hp/boost...or would I even be in the realm of having to worry about that? This is an honest question as I really don't know the limitations of these closed can systems.

 

depending on where you live, it may not be legal. (where I live, as long as there is no check engine light on, you pass). you're in dfw so it depends on your county. tarrant i think you will pass, dallas county I think you will fail.

no testing needed, there is no path into the intake with the LMR can, only paths out of the crankcase.

 

So back to the original question.

As far as emissions go I do not care if the squirrels fall from the tree's when I drive by

What is the best setup to keep the engine clean. I'll be adding meth which should get rid of the coking and will change my oil every 2500 miles or so.

 

My answer which I am sure will induce crying from some:

LMR is a no brainer for boosted applications
Then an appropriate mighty mouse can (there are different options)


Here's the greatest irony of this thread.....Cars and trucks go hundreds of thousands of miles and the owner/driver has never heard of a catch can. We, the enthusiasts, are borderline maniacal about clean combustion, clean crankcases, clean exhaust tips, etc.

If you live in the normal world, every single one of us looks like a crazy person....the buyers, the sellers, the talkers and the listeners. We can make a case for this stuff to each other but there are millions more who don't care at all.

 

Hahaha....love the squirrel analogy...

Dude there are hundreds and hundreds of cars on the roads with LMR and Lashway breather setups that are essentially identical. I myself run the lashway can just because at the time they were the only vendor that offered the pop on connectors as apposed to welding the LMR fittings. Now of course LMR has the pop ons.

I can tell you the the lashway can has two filters on the exits of the cans and those filters do get dirty from oil fumes and reside. Which tells me there is no suction there. It is a pressure exit, not a suction. However there are filters there for this reason.

 

Well actually according to the State of Texas it is not Legal but biggest issue is if you do not remove the system you installed that defeats the EPA compliant one before you sell it. I ran high hp oil burners with propane injection that made the Vette motors look like lawnmower engines had 5 disk TQ's not too many years ago. Now no one makes the programmers for the new diesels because the EPA cracked down on one of the tuner makers several years ago. Cannot even get them worked on if the system has been disabled.

As with the above it would make sense that the LMR Product would be strictly against Forum Rules as it is by definition illegal to operate on a public roadway.

The rule states: "Do not discuss, suggest, engage, or encourage any illegal activity on the forums. Linking to locations that deal with any such activity are also forbidden."

Just want to be clear that I do not advocate illegal modifications to the Emissions Control System and have not done so to my vehicle.




I guess if you had a LMR system and it was sold to you and was not marked for off road use only then you could sue them claiming they never told you but I am sure somewhere in the terms and conditions of the sale it mentions that...

In part the regulation states:

Definition of "Tampering"

Tampering is removing or making inoperable any system or device used to control emissions from a motor vehicle engine. The motor vehicle is defined as any self-propelled vehicle designed for transporting persons or property on a street or highway. The only exception to the tampering rule is the need to install a new certified emission control system or device that is equally effective in reducing vehicle emissions.


Tampering may include, but is not limited to:

• Removing the catalytic converter, air pump, and exhaust gas recirculation (EGR) valve, or doing anything to keep them from working properly, such as disconnecting vacuum lines and electrical or mechanical parts of the pollution control system.
• Adjusting any element of a car or truck's emission control design so that it no longer meets the manufacturer's specifications.
• Installing a replacement part that is not the same in design and function as the part that was originally on the vehicle.
• Adding a part that was not originally certified on the car, such as installing a turbocharger.

The U.S. Environmental Protection Agency's (EPA) anti-tampering enforcement policy is covered under the provisions of Mobile Source Enforcement Memorandum No. 1A[13].[14] This policy states that the EPA will not consider any modification to a certified configuration to be a violation of federal law if there is a reasonable basis that emissions are not adversely affected. A certified configuration is an engine or engine-chassis design that has been certified or approved by the EPA to meet certain emission standards prior to the production of vehicles with that specific design. Evidence of federally approved testing must be available upon request.

Vehicle Sales

Texas law prohibits any person from selling, offering for sale, leasing, or offering to lease any vehicle not equipped with all emission control systems or devices in good operable condition. Violators are subject to penalties under the Texas Clean Air Act of up to $25,000 per violation. Buyers are advised to have the vehicle checked for all required emission control devices prior to purchasing a new or used vehicle.
A vehicle may not be legally sold if its original engine has been replaced with another certified engine but without the related emission control components. Tampering includes the failure to install the emission controls associated with an engine configuration.