LT1 oil catch can question
E-Ray, 3LZ, ZER, LIFT
Joined: Sep 2007
Posts: 35,020
Likes: 12,402
From: NE South Carolina
However the MM "mild' can sounds like all other cans and is located in the PCV hose. Like those, it catches some of the crackcase "stuff" not all! Their "wild" hit sounds like it puts most if not all the "stuff" back in the air filter? No way an air filter can handle the "stuff" coming out of the crackcase so perhaps it is being dumped in the air!
I'm not "stuck" on a road draft tube, it's my tongue-in-cheek way of saying the only way to stop coking is to not put the crackcase "stuff" back in the intake. All cars did that before 1960! Race cars do it all the time.
I added a catch can NOT because GM didn't enginner the LT1, their first high perfomance DI, as best they could but because they could not install something that required the owner to periodically dump the "stuff" collected. Many owners don't check tire pressure, oil level etc and not dumping collected "stuff" would harm the engine.
GM has great engineers and I am confident they are doing the best they can under the constraints imposed by EPA, environmental logic etc.
Supporting Vendor
Joined: Aug 2013
Posts: 1,375
Likes: 303
From: Virginia
Regardless of how much his can catches and he dumps out, if he essentially dumps what does pass thru in the air he has not "engineered" better than GM he has just moved us back to the late 1950's and before with a "road draft tube!" Still not clear to me if that system blocks the PCV hose entry to the intake manifold. Most catch cans do NOT.
Yep confused the two.
However the MM "mild' can sounds like all other cans and is located in the PCV hose. Like those, it catches some of the crackcase "stuff" not all! Their "wild" hit sounds like it puts most if not all the "stuff" back in the air filter? No way an air filter can handle the "stuff" coming out of the crackcase so perhaps it is being dumped in the air!
I'm not "stuck" on a road draft tube, it's my tongue-in-cheek way of saying the only way to stop coking is to not put the crackcase "stuff" back in the intake. All cars did that before 1960! Race cars do it all the time.
However the MM "mild' can sounds like all other cans and is located in the PCV hose. Like those, it catches some of the crackcase "stuff" not all! Their "wild" hit sounds like it puts most if not all the "stuff" back in the air filter? No way an air filter can handle the "stuff" coming out of the crackcase so perhaps it is being dumped in the air!
I'm not "stuck" on a road draft tube, it's my tongue-in-cheek way of saying the only way to stop coking is to not put the crackcase "stuff" back in the intake. All cars did that before 1960! Race cars do it all the time.
Any PCV system is powered by the intake manifold. If it does not connect there, then you do not have a PCV system.
Any container in-line of the PCV return will catch some oil passing through the stock system, including my stuff. Going from Some->Most->All things get more complicated, especially if that is only one of the jobs you are trying to do.
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Drifting
Joined: Feb 2000
Posts: 1,591
Likes: 53
From: Central MN
Yes. I am referring to MMS's catch can. His can is not an open loop system that vents into the atmosphere. Rather, it's a closed loop system that only "blows off" into the atmosphere under extreme pressure situations. Frankly, if a high pressure situation is encountered (WOT,) I'd rather have the excess gas blow out through the PCV system than (potiently) blow out the rear engine seal.
E-Ray, 3LZ, ZER, LIFT
Joined: Sep 2007
Posts: 35,020
Likes: 12,402
From: NE South Carolina
Yes. I am referring to MMS's catch can. His can is not an open loop system that vents into the atmosphere. Rather, it's a closed loop system that only "blows off" into the atmosphere under extreme pressure situations. Frankly, if a high pressure situation is encountered (WOT,) I'd rather have the excess gas blow out through the PCV system than (potiently) blow out the rear engine seal.
Yep, that "road draft tube" I had in the Olds engine I stuffed in my first car a '41 Ford Opera Coupe, my '50 Ford and the V8 in my '56 Chevy all dumped crackcase fumes in the "atmosphere" all the time!
(I recall cleaning the wire mesh in the soup can size container in my '56 when I had the intake manifold off. It did condense some of the oil back into drops that stayed in the engine before it went outside the block into the ~1 inch diameter tube With an open exit near the bottom of the pan and helped pull out crackcase "stuff" when you were driving!) All cars before ~1960 used that approach when responsible folks realized the carbon monoxide, various hydrocarbons, unburned fuel, nitrogen oxides and burned oil mist that hit the hot pistons forming soot were causing bad effects on the body!
Since that time it's not allowed to have the "stuff" just dump into the air! Yep a "catch can" of any type collects some of the "stuff" you can empty but not the gases, very fine oil mist and very fine particles.
Best they go into the intake to be burned and what doesn't, goes through the catalytic converters to convert the nitrous oxide to oxygen and nitrogen gas and carbon monoxide to carbon dioxide, water and oxygen!
Those cows in the farm fields along the roads where there is no traffic and I often hit redline in a few gears are also better for it!
Last edited by JerryU; Jan 28, 2017 at 09:10 AM.
Drifting
Joined: Feb 2000
Posts: 1,591
Likes: 53
From: Central MN
Dave@MMS.........I'll defer JerryU's post to you (if you want to even reply, that is.) As the designer of your system, you are in a better position to explain how it works. I see this thread taking a hard right on to ugly avenue very quickly.
Last edited by Cosmo Kramer; Jan 28, 2017 at 11:14 AM.
E-Ray, 3LZ, ZER, LIFT
Joined: Sep 2007
Posts: 35,020
Likes: 12,402
From: NE South Carolina
Specific questions to the designer are the best way to find out how something works, so I will keep an eye out for them!
Any PCV system is powered by the intake manifold. If it does not connect there, then you do not have a PCV system.
Any container in-line of the PCV return will catch some oil passing through the stock system, including my stuff. Going from Some->Most->All things get more complicated, especially if that is only one of the jobs you are trying to do.
Any PCV system is powered by the intake manifold. If it does not connect there, then you do not have a PCV system.
Any container in-line of the PCV return will catch some oil passing through the stock system, including my stuff. Going from Some->Most->All things get more complicated, especially if that is only one of the jobs you are trying to do.
For the none tracker/race car a simple can with one inlet and one outlet replacing the PCV hose line collects "some of the crackcase stuff" but not all. I just comment that the only way to stop all coking with DI is to dump the "stuff" in the air as cars did before ~1960! Toyota appears to have a solution for DI engines by also incorporating port injection that is activated at limited times and washes away the "stuff" on the hot intake valves with additive containing gasoline as we have done with carburetors and port injection prior to DI.
Last edited by JerryU; Jan 28, 2017 at 01:04 PM.
Drifting
Joined: Feb 2000
Posts: 1,591
Likes: 53
From: Central MN
JerryU............Thanks for not turning on ugly avenue. You sell a great catch can. In fact, I had one of your cans on my '15 Z51 and it caught a lot (probably not all) of oil. As stated, every manufacture's can has its positives and negatives depending on the application. 
E-Ray, 3LZ, ZER, LIFT
Joined: Sep 2007
Posts: 35,020
Likes: 12,402
From: NE South Carolina
JerryU............Thanks for not turning on ugly avenue. You sell a great catch can. In fact, I had one of your cans on my '15 Z51 and it caught a lot (probably not all) of oil. As stated, every manufacture's can has its positives and negatives depending on the application.
I'm just and old "Hot Rodder" and cars are my hobby. If you're referring to the 37 PDF's I made re mods and info about the C7, that is strictly to help DYIers who like me don't work on cars every day. I find the directions with most of the '"stuff" sold are not as good as they could be - including the GM Service Manual. I'm retired so have the time and have fun making them.
For example, the GM Service Manual info I recently used when changing my battery stated "un clip the power board" from the battery. No pic as to how or words to help! Had to poke around and find out how and where they were located. Took a pic and circled it in the PDF showing where the clips were and how to disengage-not obvious!
Last edited by JerryU; Jan 28, 2017 at 11:03 PM.
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Verdad Gallardo
Supporting Vendor
Joined: Aug 2013
Posts: 1,375
Likes: 303
From: Virginia
If we are worried about emissions..
Interesting thing a good catch can keeping oil from the intake / from being burned IMPROVES emissions, of course it is only an idea without data to back it up, but it is a pretty easy one to absorb.
And of course this oil burning happens during normal pcv cycle which is 99% of the time vs. the safety pressure release which is the 1% of the time getting fussed about.
I have a local Silverado that went from burning PCV oil to the tune of 2qts per oil change to about 4 ounces (without otherwise changing fumes burning). It does not take review from EPA, GM, or peanut gallery to understand the benefit once you see it in real life like that.
GM will say improving emissions is still considered altering and will void warranty in order to save a buck on a claim. It is standard big business.
Interesting thing a good catch can keeping oil from the intake / from being burned IMPROVES emissions, of course it is only an idea without data to back it up, but it is a pretty easy one to absorb.
And of course this oil burning happens during normal pcv cycle which is 99% of the time vs. the safety pressure release which is the 1% of the time getting fussed about.
I have a local Silverado that went from burning PCV oil to the tune of 2qts per oil change to about 4 ounces (without otherwise changing fumes burning). It does not take review from EPA, GM, or peanut gallery to understand the benefit once you see it in real life like that.
GM will say improving emissions is still considered altering and will void warranty in order to save a buck on a claim. It is standard big business.
Burning Brakes
Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 839
Likes: 15
From: Allentown PA
Not worth starting a pi$$ing match over, been debated so much.
All I can say is my elite can has caught an OBSCENE amount of oil over the past 20,000 miles. I truly do not believe my car is "worse off" because it installed it. It doesn't hurt, maybe you dont need it, i dont know.
Elite makes a good product.
All I can say is my elite can has caught an OBSCENE amount of oil over the past 20,000 miles. I truly do not believe my car is "worse off" because it installed it. It doesn't hurt, maybe you dont need it, i dont know.
Elite makes a good product.