Does This Guy Post Here?
Burning Brakes
Joined: Jan 2000
Posts: 812
Likes: 42
From: Dallas, TX
I am by no means defending the driver. But for instructors to say an HPDE shouldn't be treated like a race is silly. That's denying that every person there isn't competitive and that instructors don't mix it up on track the same way. I see more wrecks in the instructor group than any group. Most instructors don't even question this. They just say it isn't racing because so many in the past have said the same. In all reality it's very similar to gentlemens racing. Especially once you get in to the upper run groups with open passing. I've only seen a handful of students who aren't competitive and they're usually women. We all know how few women show up to the track. My point is, the majority of people that show up are competitive and to deny them of that is silly
Racing is different and this kind of driving has no place in a DE
Pro
Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 742
Likes: 154
I am by no means defending the driver. But for instructors to say an HPDE shouldn't be treated like a race is silly. That's denying that every person there isn't competitive and that instructors don't mix it up on track the same way. I see more wrecks in the instructor group than any group. Most instructors don't even question this. They just say it isn't racing because so many in the past have said the same. In all reality it's very similar to gentlemens racing. Especially once you get in to the upper run groups with open passing. I've only seen a handful of students who aren't competitive and they're usually women. We all know how few women show up to the track. My point is, the majority of people that show up are competitive and to deny them of that is silly
I've never seen anything like this from someone who understands what an HPDE is about.
-T
Race Director
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 12,391
Likes: 2,910
From: Fort Worth, Texas
Advanced
Joined: Sep 2014
Posts: 81
Likes: 1
I am by no means defending the driver. But for instructors to say an HPDE shouldn't be treated like a race is silly. That's denying that every person there isn't competitive and that instructors don't mix it up on track the same way. I see more wrecks in the instructor group than any group. Most instructors don't even question this. They just say it isn't racing because so many in the past have said the same. In all reality it's very similar to gentlemens racing. Especially once you get in to the upper run groups with open passing. I've only seen a handful of students who aren't competitive and they're usually women. We all know how few women show up to the track. My point is, the majority of people that show up are competitive and to deny them of that is silly
The poster is right about gender differences. Women tend to have the best attitudes. A few guys do too, but usually there's some bravado/ego somewhere under there and that bravado does come out.
Racer
Joined: Apr 2015
Posts: 264
Likes: 1
I've run Apex Driving Academy for over 10 years with no car-car contact in any group and if one of my instructors hit someone he or she would be unlikely to return. This display is appalling; if it were a movie it would be funny, and at least everyone lived. This time.
Racing is different and this kind of driving has no place in a DE
Racing is different and this kind of driving has no place in a DE
If I remember correctly, apex only runs msr cresson? When I say wrecks I don't mean just car to car contact. Cresson has no walls so it's not likely. I go to cota or msrh a bunch. I see it happen in all HPDE. I've seen 2 wall crashes in turn 4 at cota come from instructors in one day. I went 5 years without an incident until weekend before last. Some idiot T boned me in the bus stop, mid corner at msr Houston. To make things worse, he didn't even know what he did wrong before the incident.
Protocol is to put an instructor in someone's seat after an overly aggressive driving. This video wasn't with an instructor and speed ventures claims they kicked him out. I went out with speed ventures one day a cota. I skipped the second day because I felt it was dangerous. Open passing but when I would come through people would close the door on me last minute as if they weren't checking mirrors.
Last edited by Catchmeifyoucansam; Jun 23, 2015 at 09:13 AM.
Racer
Joined: Apr 2015
Posts: 264
Likes: 1
I have seen specific groups of instructors (like several in Spec Miatas), do a bit of racing during their run, but they are polite to other drivers who have faster cars (and vice versa).
I've never seen anything like this from someone who understands what an HPDE is about.
-T
I've never seen anything like this from someone who understands what an HPDE is about.
-T
Last edited by Catchmeifyoucansam; Jun 23, 2015 at 09:03 AM.
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Scraping the splitter.
Joined: Jun 2005
Posts: 8,111
Likes: 1,029
St. Jude Donor '13-'14-'15
There is driving fast and somewhat aggressively, but safely, and there is driving dangerously, and probably not so fast. We all know which one this video represents.
But LMFAO at "I'm f*ckin' flat out like a m*ther f*ck*r!".
S.
But LMFAO at "I'm f*ckin' flat out like a m*ther f*ck*r!".
S.
Burning Brakes
Joined: Jan 2000
Posts: 812
Likes: 42
From: Dallas, TX
If I remember correctly, apex only runs msr cresson? When I say wrecks I don't mean just car to car contact. Cresson has no walls so it's not likely. I go to cota or msrh a bunch. I see it happen in all HPDE. I've seen 2 wall crashes in turn 4 at cota come from instructors in one day. I went 5 years without an incident until weekend before last. Some idiot T boned me in the bus stop, mid corner at msr Houston. To make things worse, he didn't even know what he did wrong before the incident.
Protocol is to put an instructor in someone's seat after an overly aggressive driving. This video wasn't with an instructor and speed ventures claims they kicked him out. I went out with speed ventures one day a cota. I skipped the second day because I felt it was dangerous. Open passing but when I would come through people would close the door on me last minute as if they weren't checking mirrors.
Protocol is to put an instructor in someone's seat after an overly aggressive driving. This video wasn't with an instructor and speed ventures claims they kicked him out. I went out with speed ventures one day a cota. I skipped the second day because I felt it was dangerous. Open passing but when I would come through people would close the door on me last minute as if they weren't checking mirrors.
I am surprised at the cavalier attitude about car to car contact in a DE. It is essentially inexcusable absent some kind of mechanical or medical problem. We keep a very tight leash on students before they can drive solo and even afterwards and if I see anything resembling racing the black flag flies. We also keep car counts down as traffic can also be an issue.
Racer
Joined: Apr 2015
Posts: 264
Likes: 1
Yes, Apex runs MotorSport Ranch in Cresson; probably the safest track in the world, which helps. I've raced and driven COTA and while I have seen the classic Turn 3-4 crash, it would be a former instructor if one of mine did that. I did a speed ventures COTA event as well and it was pretty crazy, I agree, with some serious resume inflation for "advanced" drivers.
I am surprised at the cavalier attitude about car to car contact in a DE. It is essentially inexcusable absent some kind of mechanical or medical problem. We keep a very tight leash on students before they can drive solo and even afterwards and if I see anything resembling racing the black flag flies. We also keep car counts down as traffic can also be an issue.
I am surprised at the cavalier attitude about car to car contact in a DE. It is essentially inexcusable absent some kind of mechanical or medical problem. We keep a very tight leash on students before they can drive solo and even afterwards and if I see anything resembling racing the black flag flies. We also keep car counts down as traffic can also be an issue.
Melting Slicks
Joined: Aug 2000
Posts: 3,436
Likes: 977
From: Overland Park KS
If I remember correctly, apex only runs msr cresson? When I say wrecks I don't mean just car to car contact. Cresson has no walls so it's not likely. I go to cota or msrh a bunch. I see it happen in all HPDE. I've seen 2 wall crashes in turn 4 at cota come from instructors in one day. I went 5 years without an incident until weekend before last. Some idiot T boned me in the bus stop, mid corner at msr Houston. To make things worse, he didn't even know what he did wrong before the incident.
Protocol is to put an instructor in someone's seat after an overly aggressive driving. This video wasn't with an instructor and speed ventures claims they kicked him out. I went out with speed ventures one day a cota. I skipped the second day because I felt it was dangerous. Open passing but when I would come through people would close the door on me last minute as if they weren't checking mirrors.
Protocol is to put an instructor in someone's seat after an overly aggressive driving. This video wasn't with an instructor and speed ventures claims they kicked him out. I went out with speed ventures one day a cota. I skipped the second day because I felt it was dangerous. Open passing but when I would come through people would close the door on me last minute as if they weren't checking mirrors.
I ask because at BMW CCA events, all cars are required to have liability, I assume so that if you hit someone, your insurance will fix their car? Not sure how that works if your carrier won't cover any event on a 'race track'.
Bish
Racer
Joined: Apr 2015
Posts: 264
Likes: 1
The guy who hit you; is he covering the damage via his insurance?
I ask because at BMW CCA events, all cars are required to have liability, I assume so that if you hit someone, your insurance will fix their car? Not sure how that works if your carrier won't cover any event on a 'race track'.
Bish
I ask because at BMW CCA events, all cars are required to have liability, I assume so that if you hit someone, your insurance will fix their car? Not sure how that works if your carrier won't cover any event on a 'race track'.
Bish