Phil1098

It's the American public. Now before I get labeled as a fanboy, or some other attempt at claiming I'm wrong, please read this in full. GM has been driving, testing , and developing this car for YEARS.

They are also the same people that have tuned the chassis of the C7 to the level it is, so it's obvious they know how to tune a chassis. The C8 is a whole new architecture and so, other than the spelling

of the name, it really is a new design (for Corvette). GM also knows they are going to attract buyers, some that have never owned a sports car, much less a Corvette. They have WAY too much at stake to allow

the car to be labeled as dangerous. Bear with me, so Mr. 50 something who is finally in the position to have a toy sees the new Corvette and pulls the trigger. He comes out of a Ford Explorer that has a

center of gravity similar to a stack of cigar boxes. He is out in his new whiz bang Corvette and he is amazed he can double the posted speed of the off ramp without even a tire squeal. The cars

performance potential seems limitless. One day he takes his favorite posted 40 mph ramp at 98 mph and goes off road, at that speed it's ugly. When interviewed, he says he has no idea what went

wrong, one second I was on the ramp and the next I was flying off the road. Not a real driver, but people listen. His friends say they have been with him many times in the Explorer and he is a responsible

driver, must be the car. Today not many Americans can take responsibility for their actions, everything HAS to be someone else's fault. The idiot that dumps hot coffee in his lap BLAMES McDonalds for

serving him hot coffee. The reason the C7 can be tuned as neutral as it is, is because there are tens thousands of FE Corvettes that haven't been wadded up for GM to point to. Some idiot crashes C7

he is viewed as the problem, with the C8 they have zero cars to point to that haven't been wadded. Because they are selling to the masses, I don't think GM has a choice in the matter, they just have

TOO MUCH to lose.

C82LT

The Carrera GT (aka Widowmaker) doesn't seem to have put a dent in Porsche's sales.

Jomo2018

Different demographic. The Widowmaker is now a multi-million dollar car. There are also much less than ten-thousand of them. The Vette will be made to the tune of tens of thousands PER YEAR. They will be sold to people who will be looking for an excuse to sue somebody and get a big payday. If you're a rich bastard already (rich enough to afford a multimillion dollar collector-car), you're not looking for a big payday. If somebody gets hurt in your car, you might sue to protect your own fortune (and shift the blame), but you're probably not looking for GM to pay for your lifestyle.

bcmarly

It's the 911 GT2RS - turbo charged rear wheel drive car that was named the widow maker.

GetOutOJail

I’m not a track guy but I don’t quite understand why these cars aren’t are as steering neutral as possible?? If understeer and oversteer are both undesirable, why not make the car neutral to wheel slip occurs at the same time? I mean, obviously oversteer will make a car likely to spin out. Understeer wheel mean the drive wheel (that control direction) slip first while the rear still has traction thereby shoving you now in the wrong direction. It just seems like neutral would be safest. With any driver. What am I missing?? Thanks guys.

Cameroni79

what they’re talking about is built in programmed understeer. Oversteer might not be desirable for fast tracking conditions, but it’s a hell of a lot of fun. Programming in understeer is a way to force the driver to behave. If you’re turning in to a corner and the car doesn’t turn as sharply as you think it should you’ll probable slow down. As a safety device you’re swapping oversteer for understeer. Meaning instead of swinging the rear end around it just doesn’t turn in. So yes, both can be dangerous under the tight conditions, you can understeer off the side of a mountain for one, but it’s still the safer choice compared to taking the corner backwards.

MitchAlsup

Oversteer is desirable when accelerating out of a turn.
Understeer is desirable when braking towards turn-in.
The only time a car on a race track should be neutral is while cornering at maintenance throttle.

Not when used properly !

Understeer means the diver can remain fixated on what is in front of him.

Phil1098

Understeer means the front ends pushes or plows, easy to see with a front wheel drive car. Neutral means both ends let go at the same time and never provided any warning you were near the limit. You don't want oversteer because when it lets go you slide off rear end first. Old 911 Porsches were known for trailing throttle oversteer. Which means the driver missed his brake point, said oh **** I'm going too fast, turns the wheel and gets off the gas unloading the rear of the car and off the road he goes back end first.

Understeer is always the safety net of OK bub, your just about done, better back off if you don't want to crash.

thill444

Keep in mind we are talking about the Z51 version here too not just the non-Z51 version.

My opinion would be to keep more understeer baked into the non-Z51. For the Z51 have it be neutral with maybe a hint of understeer. The C8 Z51 does not just have little understeer, it sounds like it is moderate/high.

Phil1098

Agreed, but my original premise still stands, the guy says yeah it's only $5k get me all the performance, I want it all. They can't afford to have the car labeled as dangerous. Remember, it isn't plowing like a 1978 Pontiac station wagon on bias ply tires, it understeers and pulls over a full G. Most people would think their face was coming off before it would do this. According to Jonny Lieberman it does only have a hint of understeer.

Warp Factor

Understeer is much more progressive, and gives much more warning than an oversteeing rear-weight-bias car suddenly swapping ends. In other words, much safer for the average driver.

Jomo2018

In a country that wasn't lawsuit-happy, I would agree with you. If the Z51 was selling for 911 money, where the lawsuit quotient wasn't as high, I'd agree with you. The problem is that somebody's spoiled little darling can possibly stretch to afford a Z51 Vette. He can wrap himself around a tree, and his family will sue, sue, sue.

thill444

Johnny Liberman's employer posted a review that says the C8 Z51 has "grinding, infuriating understeer". But anyway, I am sure with camber, different sway bars, etc the understeer will be dialed in for those that want less.

I don't think I have left a suspension stock in about 15 years

jefnvk

Nearly all mass production street cars understeer. No reason to expect the Corvette to be different. It is safer.

When an untrained driver gets a car out of sorts, their natural reaction is to get off the gas and jam the brakes. It is not just the American public, it is the public in general. With an understeering car, that is exactly what you would do to right the situation, with an oversteering car, that can exacerbate the situation immensely. As Warp Factor also mentioned, the understeer builds up, and gives the operator plenty of warning. Oversteer doesn't. All in all, it is the smart decision. As mentioned in another thread, for those who have the knowledge on what they are doing to be changing the characteristics of their car, the solution is generally available and easy to do. If I can make a FWD car spin out with nothing but some air pressure and a $130 sway bar, it shouldn't be too hard to loosen up a Corvette.

Red Mist Rulz

Few Z51s will ever see a track, or be driven by more skilled drivers than the base model. Most of the people I know with a Z51 bought it because they like the look of the spoiler and the slotted brakes, or because "It's the performance version, it must be better," Not because they're capable of using the extra "performance." Heck, most of the people I know with a Z06 or GS aren't any more skilled or likely to track the car than those who have a Stingray.

Red Mist Rulz

Correction in red. At least give the full statement. Few Corvette owners will ever approach the limit, even if they do take the car to a track.

thill444

Few Corvette owners will launch a C8 with launch control either to achieve sub 3 second 0-60 times. Should GM neuter that too to make the car more safe?

C82LT

I thought the original Porsche widowmaker was the 930 Turbo. I think there are several.....point being that I think the whole under steering conspiracy thing is a lack of them dialing the C8 in properly or a design flaw. Not because of expensive car insurance or people crashing their cars as what has been explained. The examples cited would always be the driver's fault, not Chevrolet's.

wvanepps

Not sure I agree. The C7 Z06 with 650 HP going to the wheels can be tamed by the traction control PTM system and you can still have fun with it. I have never had a problem with it even in track mode. Now if I fully disable traction control then it is super easy to lose control. Would be interesting to know if the C8 still has crazy understeer with PTM turned on in track mode. I would never even think of turning off traction control in any modern day sports car except for maybe a BRZ / FRS as I don't have the skill for it.

BeastBoy

There are degrees of understeer and oversteer. Nobody wants a car that plows when they crank the wheels or either snaps the rear around. A car can have mild understeer to build confidence at high speeds. And oversteer can be progressive under steady throttle and light correction. I think the concerns are due to moderate to heavy descriptions of understeer. I hadn’t thought about the ME corvette having no history to defend itself so maybe indeed team corvette decided to be more cautious than normal to protect the image.