Do you think the C8 Z06 will have less power than the C7 Z06?
09-01-2020, 03:18 PM
#101
Melting Slicks
Everyone WANTS the C8 Z06 to be a success. Everyone wants it to be the fastest track oriented Corvette in history. But, we collectively have no idea what GM is really going to be able to do after the unanticipated Covid challenges. There are basically three or four possible power scenarios.
NA with FPC is one option. But the drawbacks or obstacles on that path are that it would have to be a much larger engine than most other manufacturers with a lot more FPC experience are employing. (vs GM’s zero FPC experience) Also, that supposed 8k-9k RPM GM FPC NA engine would almost certainly have lower torque than the current C8 engine or any of the C7 Z engines. So, while C8 power transfer is clearly superior, an NA FPC C8 Z06 engine will not dig the way the 1/4 milers want. In fact, I would suspect that if a C8 Z06 NA FPC car (with 600-ish HP?) races a C8 Z 51 on the 1/4 track or simply in a 0-60 accel, such a C8 Z06 would either lose or barely beat the C8 Z51 car. Now, we have a few C8 Z06 worshippers here who might buy the new Z even if it had a Singer Sewing machine power plant (C9?) and others who might buy it simply if it carries off the much “racier” wide body look ... think C7 vs C7 Z’s. Also, to make that C8Z competitive in the track car marketplace @ 600 HP, it would likely have to go on a serious diet to shed a fair amount of excess weight, and that type of diet plan is not cheap.
All of that is why I personally think that GM would be making a real gamble to proceed down that NA FPC path. It only adds up to those who worship at the GM/C8 Z06 altar in blind faith.
This car needs to make even somewhat detached people say, “DAMN!!” Not, “That’s a pretty nice upgrade to me and I really only want a lighter weight track car that I can mod anyway.” I would only point out that the C7 Z06 was a rather dramatic departure from the C7 Z51. Also, there aren’t that many C8 buyers who want an actual kinda purist track car. Think sales volume and cost factors.
I think that performance-wise, certainly not exotic quality-wise, the approximate ideal target numbers for the C8 Z06 would would be the F 488 GTB and it is interesting to compare how they got there and then consider what options GM might exercise to get there in terms of cost, reliability, and, again, performance.
488 GTB employs a 3.9L with two twin scroll turbochargers made by Honeywell (Think jet engines, not normal GM supercharger), 661 HP @ 8,000 RPM and 561 TQE @ 3,000 RPM, 10.45 1/4 secs 1/4 mile, & top speed 205. Very sophisticated aero and brakes and I think the hood even has a $20,000 mechanical frunk latch. (Relax...). Ferrari unfortunately considers this 488 a sports car which won’t necessarily appeal to those who feel that “dragster” is a preferable descriptor to “sports car.”
Shift those numbers around a little to get the performance factor that is most important to you.
Knowing the significant ROI reductions that GM experienced on the intro C8 thanks to Covid, a lot of which now can’t be recovered during the C8 cycle, I would hazard they might stick with the recent marketing factors used by both C6 and C7 gens. Base, Z51, Z06 (600 to hopefully 650 HP TT), base engined GS (assuming the C8 wide body will be that much of a dramatic visual departure from the Z51), and the ZR1 which could come with a more powerful TT at 750-ish, active aero, and then if all market factors line up, close out the C8 line with the very, very high priced ZORA FWD 900-1,000 HP electric package as the ultimate ICE equipped package which then transitions to the C9 electric Corvettes.
Anyway, food for thought, not intended to say any of this is the only path forward in the C8 era. But, maybe Covid and possible FPC reliability issues may require GM to dance a little as the C8 era closes out, hopefully at a profi, which will be the most overriding consideration. Period.
NA with FPC is one option. But the drawbacks or obstacles on that path are that it would have to be a much larger engine than most other manufacturers with a lot more FPC experience are employing. (vs GM’s zero FPC experience) Also, that supposed 8k-9k RPM GM FPC NA engine would almost certainly have lower torque than the current C8 engine or any of the C7 Z engines. So, while C8 power transfer is clearly superior, an NA FPC C8 Z06 engine will not dig the way the 1/4 milers want. In fact, I would suspect that if a C8 Z06 NA FPC car (with 600-ish HP?) races a C8 Z 51 on the 1/4 track or simply in a 0-60 accel, such a C8 Z06 would either lose or barely beat the C8 Z51 car. Now, we have a few C8 Z06 worshippers here who might buy the new Z even if it had a Singer Sewing machine power plant (C9?) and others who might buy it simply if it carries off the much “racier” wide body look ... think C7 vs C7 Z’s. Also, to make that C8Z competitive in the track car marketplace @ 600 HP, it would likely have to go on a serious diet to shed a fair amount of excess weight, and that type of diet plan is not cheap.
All of that is why I personally think that GM would be making a real gamble to proceed down that NA FPC path. It only adds up to those who worship at the GM/C8 Z06 altar in blind faith.
This car needs to make even somewhat detached people say, “DAMN!!” Not, “That’s a pretty nice upgrade to me and I really only want a lighter weight track car that I can mod anyway.” I would only point out that the C7 Z06 was a rather dramatic departure from the C7 Z51. Also, there aren’t that many C8 buyers who want an actual kinda purist track car. Think sales volume and cost factors.
I think that performance-wise, certainly not exotic quality-wise, the approximate ideal target numbers for the C8 Z06 would would be the F 488 GTB and it is interesting to compare how they got there and then consider what options GM might exercise to get there in terms of cost, reliability, and, again, performance.
488 GTB employs a 3.9L with two twin scroll turbochargers made by Honeywell (Think jet engines, not normal GM supercharger), 661 HP @ 8,000 RPM and 561 TQE @ 3,000 RPM, 10.45 1/4 secs 1/4 mile, & top speed 205. Very sophisticated aero and brakes and I think the hood even has a $20,000 mechanical frunk latch. (Relax...). Ferrari unfortunately considers this 488 a sports car which won’t necessarily appeal to those who feel that “dragster” is a preferable descriptor to “sports car.”
Shift those numbers around a little to get the performance factor that is most important to you.
Knowing the significant ROI reductions that GM experienced on the intro C8 thanks to Covid, a lot of which now can’t be recovered during the C8 cycle, I would hazard they might stick with the recent marketing factors used by both C6 and C7 gens. Base, Z51, Z06 (600 to hopefully 650 HP TT), base engined GS (assuming the C8 wide body will be that much of a dramatic visual departure from the Z51), and the ZR1 which could come with a more powerful TT at 750-ish, active aero, and then if all market factors line up, close out the C8 line with the very, very high priced ZORA FWD 900-1,000 HP electric package as the ultimate ICE equipped package which then transitions to the C9 electric Corvettes.
Anyway, food for thought, not intended to say any of this is the only path forward in the C8 era. But, maybe Covid and possible FPC reliability issues may require GM to dance a little as the C8 era closes out, hopefully at a profi, which will be the most overriding consideration. Period.
Last edited by B747VET; 09-01-2020 at 03:49 PM.
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Rock0720 (09-01-2020)
09-01-2020, 03:28 PM
#102
Last edited by sprayer; 09-01-2020 at 03:28 PM.
09-01-2020, 03:53 PM
#103
Drifting
Excellent points above, B747VET.
With all our deliberations about the forthcoming C8 Z06, sadly it marks the end of the road for the ICE (non-hybrid/non-electrification) iterations of the Z06.
The ‘63 RPO Z06 SW FI 327 (L84 360 hp), RPO NO3 Big Tank (36.5 gallons), finned front and rear drum brakes (eek!) with sintered pads, suspension component improvements, and other track oriented upgrades were the great start for the Z06 legacy.
60 years later in 2023, I believe something spectacular - at a level similar to the C8 ME platform move - needs to land in the C8 Z06 engine bay to close this legendary chapter for America’s greatest sports car.
We enthusiasts have different opinions on what’s forthcoming but I think we all agree it will be a great performer.
I have faith in Tadge and the team to deliver “greatness” to close the Z06 ICE legacy.
With all our deliberations about the forthcoming C8 Z06, sadly it marks the end of the road for the ICE (non-hybrid/non-electrification) iterations of the Z06.
The ‘63 RPO Z06 SW FI 327 (L84 360 hp), RPO NO3 Big Tank (36.5 gallons), finned front and rear drum brakes (eek!) with sintered pads, suspension component improvements, and other track oriented upgrades were the great start for the Z06 legacy.
60 years later in 2023, I believe something spectacular - at a level similar to the C8 ME platform move - needs to land in the C8 Z06 engine bay to close this legendary chapter for America’s greatest sports car.
We enthusiasts have different opinions on what’s forthcoming but I think we all agree it will be a great performer.
I have faith in Tadge and the team to deliver “greatness” to close the Z06 ICE legacy.
Last edited by Vernon; 09-01-2020 at 04:03 PM.
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B747VET (09-01-2020)
09-01-2020, 04:20 PM
#104
Race Director
Anything with long straights and/or high speed corners should favor the C7z. I think slow speed/technical stuff could be advantage C8Z51 with equal tires, but I don't know if we have that data yet. I think the C8Z51 will be a better car in the wet, especially on stock tires for both although most people don't care about that.
Can't have it both ways when discussing showroom stock cars. And if discussing modifidmodified cars where do ou draw a line?? Tires? Shocks? Lightweight components?
How could they ever release a C8 Z06 that doesn't beat a C7 Z06 in every category? I think the C8 Z06 will beat the C7 ZR1 in every category just like the C7Z06 did. But if it's NA with no "E" assist tech or TT? I don't think it will. My biggest concern is that what we saw from the C8 Z51 at the ring was it was (if you go by Jim Mero's claim) the C7 Z07 at 7:10 is almost 20 seconds faster. And that was with the old mag ride. It was a 15 on the 100 octane tune but in 7 minutes unless it was 75f outside that 100 octane isn't doing much when the car is moving over a prolonged session it would lose some power as temps rose but this isn't about a whole session this is about a hero lap. So even if the two canceled each other out (mag ride update Z06 was 1.6 sec faster on VIR 1/3 length of the ring iirc?) C8 Z51 is still 20 seconds in the hole.
The best tires on earth.. say they get you 6 or 7 seconds on that long of a track now it's 12 or 13 seconds behind. Wider track active aero equates to what? 4 5 6 seconds? Now best case a C8 Z06 would be down 6 seconds. Now in that 6 seconds is that extra 100hp going to make up the difference? + Gearing? It is going to be fun as we wait for the actual car.
To me if taking them at their word? The C8 Z06 should blow even the C7 ZR out of the water on a track. I am hoping it will because it makes it that much sweeter to upgrade. If it slots in between C7Z and C7ZR? I don't even know if i would want it. That would mentally knock be back to wait for year 3 or 4 and let them work any bugs out. I'm telling you if the C8 Z doesn't beat the C7 ZR on any track at any time? It's a failure from a performance perspective because we were told a million times they maxed out the FE.
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09-01-2020, 04:27 PM
#105
C6 owners better get on their horse and ride into today's game.
Imagine being a C6 owner and talking **** about a C8 lol. Like go experience the C7 first, then come talk.
It's basically like a joe schmo sitting courtside talking **** to an NBA player saying, "you suck man you missed the free throw!!!!"
But like he's a nobody sitting and the player is earning millions, while missing that free throw
09-01-2020, 04:47 PM
#106
Race Director
Member Since: Apr 2016
Location: Pittsburgh
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2023 C6 of the Year Finalist - Unmodified
2022 C6 of the Year Finalist - Unmodified
2021 C6 of the Year Finalist - Unmodified
Hopefully the C8 Z06 will get back to what a Z06 is supposed to be...a light, normally aspirated, track worthy Corvette
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RapidC84B (09-01-2020)
09-01-2020, 05:06 PM
#108
I think the data revealed so far is this - the C8 Z51 was about a second quicker than the C7 Z51 on a shorter track iirc. So if it was a second quicker on the short track and a couple of seconds slower than an non Z07 GS on another track, idk in what world a C8 Z51 is sniffing a C7 Z06's ***? And if you want to make the "equal tire" argument you're going to get the C7 Z51 owner's up in arms because that's the excuse they used as to why the C8 Z51 beat the C7 Z51 at all on the short track! Lol
Can't have it both ways when discussing showroom stock cars. And if discussing modifidmodified cars where do ou draw a line?? Tires? Shocks? Lightweight components?
How could they ever release a C8 Z06 that doesn't beat a C7 Z06 in every category? I think the C8 Z06 will beat the C7 ZR1 in every category just like the C7Z06 did. But if it's NA with no "E" assist tech or TT? I don't think it will. My biggest concern is that what we saw from the C8 Z51 at the ring was it was (if you go by Jim Mero's claim) the C7 Z07 at 7:10 is almost 20 seconds faster. And that was with the old mag ride. It was a 15 on the 100 octane tune but in 7 minutes unless it was 75f outside that 100 octane isn't doing much when the car is moving over a prolonged session it would lose some power as temps rose but this isn't about a whole session this is about a hero lap. So even if the two canceled each other out (mag ride update Z06 was 1.6 sec faster on VIR 1/3 length of the ring iirc?) C8 Z51 is still 20 seconds in the hole.
The best tires on earth.. say they get you 6 or 7 seconds on that long of a track now it's 12 or 13 seconds behind. Wider track active aero equates to what? 4 5 6 seconds? Now best case a C8 Z06 would be down 6 seconds. Now in that 6 seconds is that extra 100hp going to make up the difference? + Gearing? It is going to be fun as we wait for the actual car.
To me if taking them at their word? The C8 Z06 should blow even the C7 ZR out of the water on a track. I am hoping it will because it makes it that much sweeter to upgrade. If it slots in between C7Z and C7ZR? I don't even know if i would want it. That would mentally knock be back to wait for year 3 or 4 and let them work any bugs out. I'm telling you if the C8 Z doesn't beat the C7 ZR on any track at any time? It's a failure from a performance perspective because we were told a million times they maxed out the FE.
Can't have it both ways when discussing showroom stock cars. And if discussing modifidmodified cars where do ou draw a line?? Tires? Shocks? Lightweight components?
How could they ever release a C8 Z06 that doesn't beat a C7 Z06 in every category? I think the C8 Z06 will beat the C7 ZR1 in every category just like the C7Z06 did. But if it's NA with no "E" assist tech or TT? I don't think it will. My biggest concern is that what we saw from the C8 Z51 at the ring was it was (if you go by Jim Mero's claim) the C7 Z07 at 7:10 is almost 20 seconds faster. And that was with the old mag ride. It was a 15 on the 100 octane tune but in 7 minutes unless it was 75f outside that 100 octane isn't doing much when the car is moving over a prolonged session it would lose some power as temps rose but this isn't about a whole session this is about a hero lap. So even if the two canceled each other out (mag ride update Z06 was 1.6 sec faster on VIR 1/3 length of the ring iirc?) C8 Z51 is still 20 seconds in the hole.
The best tires on earth.. say they get you 6 or 7 seconds on that long of a track now it's 12 or 13 seconds behind. Wider track active aero equates to what? 4 5 6 seconds? Now best case a C8 Z06 would be down 6 seconds. Now in that 6 seconds is that extra 100hp going to make up the difference? + Gearing? It is going to be fun as we wait for the actual car.
To me if taking them at their word? The C8 Z06 should blow even the C7 ZR out of the water on a track. I am hoping it will because it makes it that much sweeter to upgrade. If it slots in between C7Z and C7ZR? I don't even know if i would want it. That would mentally knock be back to wait for year 3 or 4 and let them work any bugs out. I'm telling you if the C8 Z doesn't beat the C7 ZR on any track at any time? It's a failure from a performance perspective because we were told a million times they maxed out the FE.
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23/C8Z (09-01-2020)
09-01-2020, 05:42 PM
#109
Burning Brakes
Is there any real evidence of the C8 Z06 being naturally aspirated? All of the Cad models and leaked information we have suggests that it will use twin-turbos. ZERV, the original leaker, did mention that the LT2 would be replaced by a naturally aspirated DOHC V8 at some point in the C8 life cycle, but he was under the impression that the the high-performance models would be turbocharged. Of course, plans could have changed with GM restructuring lineups, cutting budgets for ICE development, and focusing on EVs; that's why the new top-tier Cadillac CT5-V and a new version of the Escalade will get the LT4 or LT5 instead of a more efficient twin-turbo DOHC engine.
The biggest red flag to me isn't the reliability of a N/A FPC motor, but its emissions and fuel consumption. There's no way that they could get one to pass European or Australian regulations without serious cylinder deactivation and start/stop integration, and no Z06 buyer wants either. Twin turbochargers would allow for a lower displacement and would have much more low-end grunt, so fuel consumption would be a lot better around town. Of course, they could make it a hybrid, but it would be really pushing the boundaries on weight.
My money is on this:
The biggest red flag to me isn't the reliability of a N/A FPC motor, but its emissions and fuel consumption. There's no way that they could get one to pass European or Australian regulations without serious cylinder deactivation and start/stop integration, and no Z06 buyer wants either. Twin turbochargers would allow for a lower displacement and would have much more low-end grunt, so fuel consumption would be a lot better around town. Of course, they could make it a hybrid, but it would be really pushing the boundaries on weight.
My money is on this:
- Z06 with a small-displacement DOHC TT FPC V8 making somewhere between 650 and 700hp, not much heavier than a Stingray
- ZR1 with with the same engine stroked out, plus bigger turbochargers and a twin-motor hybrid system, much heavier than Z06 but much quicker
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09-01-2020, 06:46 PM
#110
I think the data revealed so far is this - the C8 Z51 was about a second quicker than the C7 Z51 on a shorter track iirc. So if it was a second quicker on the short track and a couple of seconds slower than an non Z07 GS on another track, idk in what world a C8 Z51 is sniffing a C7 Z06's ***?
I don't think we have a large enough data set to say definitively that it's always 2 seconds slower/faster vs this that or whatever. I haven't really been following track times to be honest, but a couple of youtube videos and some magazine articles haven't convinced me that it can't sniff a C7Z06's *** in the right circumstances (LOL) I said before.
And if you want to make the "equal tire" argument you're going to get the C7 Z51 owner's up in arms because that's the excuse they used as to why the C8 Z51 beat the C7 Z51 at all on the short track! Lol
It'll eventually get proven one way or another. It doesn't really matter to me, BTW.
Can't have it both ways when discussing showroom stock cars. And if discussing modifidmodified cars where do ou draw a line?? Tires? Shocks? Lightweight components?
Tires are wear items, especially for track use so it seems fair to me. Just pointing out that the showroom stock tire is not equal and yes it can go both ways.
How could they ever release a C8 Z06 that doesn't beat a C7 Z06 in every category? I think the C8 Z06 will beat the C7 ZR1 in every category just like the C7Z06 did. But if it's NA with no "E" assist tech or TT? I don't think it will. My biggest concern is that what we saw from the C8 Z51 at the ring was it was (if you go by Jim Mero's claim) the C7 Z07 at 7:10 is almost 20 seconds faster. And that was with the old mag ride. It was a 15 on the 100 octane tune but in 7 minutes unless it was 75f outside that 100 octane isn't doing much when the car is moving over a prolonged session it would lose some power as temps rose but this isn't about a whole session this is about a hero lap. So even if the two canceled each other out (mag ride update Z06 was 1.6 sec faster on VIR 1/3 length of the ring iirc?) C8 Z51 is still 20 seconds in the hole.
The best tires on earth.. say they get you 6 or 7 seconds on that long of a track now it's 12 or 13 seconds behind. Wider track active aero equates to what? 4 5 6 seconds? Now best case a C8 Z06 would be down 6 seconds. Now in that 6 seconds is that extra 100hp going to make up the difference? + Gearing? It is going to be fun as we wait for the actual car.
If we accept your 6 seconds as fact. That's 6 seconds over 14+ miles. You don't think they can make up ~.42 seconds per mile with 100 HP added to the C8? I think they could probably make up the whole 20 second delta just with equal HP and nothing else. Not sure what the calculation for this would be, but I bet they know.
To me if taking them at their word? The C8 Z06 should blow even the C7 ZR out of the water on a track. I am hoping it will because it makes it that much sweeter to upgrade. If it slots in between C7Z and C7ZR? I don't even know if i would want it. That would mentally knock be back to wait for year 3 or 4 and let them work any bugs out. I'm telling you if the C8 Z doesn't beat the C7 ZR on any track at any time? It's a failure from a performance perspective because we were told a million times they maxed out the FE.
I don't think you'll see C8 Z06s sitting on lots unsold any time soon.
I don't think we have a large enough data set to say definitively that it's always 2 seconds slower/faster vs this that or whatever. I haven't really been following track times to be honest, but a couple of youtube videos and some magazine articles haven't convinced me that it can't sniff a C7Z06's *** in the right circumstances (LOL) I said before.
And if you want to make the "equal tire" argument you're going to get the C7 Z51 owner's up in arms because that's the excuse they used as to why the C8 Z51 beat the C7 Z51 at all on the short track! Lol
It'll eventually get proven one way or another. It doesn't really matter to me, BTW.
Can't have it both ways when discussing showroom stock cars. And if discussing modifidmodified cars where do ou draw a line?? Tires? Shocks? Lightweight components?
Tires are wear items, especially for track use so it seems fair to me. Just pointing out that the showroom stock tire is not equal and yes it can go both ways.
How could they ever release a C8 Z06 that doesn't beat a C7 Z06 in every category? I think the C8 Z06 will beat the C7 ZR1 in every category just like the C7Z06 did. But if it's NA with no "E" assist tech or TT? I don't think it will. My biggest concern is that what we saw from the C8 Z51 at the ring was it was (if you go by Jim Mero's claim) the C7 Z07 at 7:10 is almost 20 seconds faster. And that was with the old mag ride. It was a 15 on the 100 octane tune but in 7 minutes unless it was 75f outside that 100 octane isn't doing much when the car is moving over a prolonged session it would lose some power as temps rose but this isn't about a whole session this is about a hero lap. So even if the two canceled each other out (mag ride update Z06 was 1.6 sec faster on VIR 1/3 length of the ring iirc?) C8 Z51 is still 20 seconds in the hole.
The best tires on earth.. say they get you 6 or 7 seconds on that long of a track now it's 12 or 13 seconds behind. Wider track active aero equates to what? 4 5 6 seconds? Now best case a C8 Z06 would be down 6 seconds. Now in that 6 seconds is that extra 100hp going to make up the difference? + Gearing? It is going to be fun as we wait for the actual car.
If we accept your 6 seconds as fact. That's 6 seconds over 14+ miles. You don't think they can make up ~.42 seconds per mile with 100 HP added to the C8? I think they could probably make up the whole 20 second delta just with equal HP and nothing else. Not sure what the calculation for this would be, but I bet they know.
To me if taking them at their word? The C8 Z06 should blow even the C7 ZR out of the water on a track. I am hoping it will because it makes it that much sweeter to upgrade. If it slots in between C7Z and C7ZR? I don't even know if i would want it. That would mentally knock be back to wait for year 3 or 4 and let them work any bugs out. I'm telling you if the C8 Z doesn't beat the C7 ZR on any track at any time? It's a failure from a performance perspective because we were told a million times they maxed out the FE.
I don't think you'll see C8 Z06s sitting on lots unsold any time soon.
09-01-2020, 07:19 PM
#111
Race Director
Time will tell my man. But I would bet the farm on the. C8 z51 and C7 Z06 on track being worlds apart for time. No matter the track.
I only say that because of what I've seen from poorsha's "hipo driver" you tube channel. His GS couldn't keep up with his C7Zs and from what we already know the C7GS and the C8Z51 are similar performers on track (within 2 seconds on the ring and only a couple slower on a much shorter course in the hands of a semi pro).
I am looking forward to pobst running it around Laguna Seca and seeing some more comparisons like VIR to the GS (and C7 Z51)
I know it's old and outdated but the list of cars that run these tracks faster than than a C7Z is short and only much more expensive. With the ZLE right behind it (just too much of a street car ride compromise but wicked nonetheless).
I only say that because of what I've seen from poorsha's "hipo driver" you tube channel. His GS couldn't keep up with his C7Zs and from what we already know the C7GS and the C8Z51 are similar performers on track (within 2 seconds on the ring and only a couple slower on a much shorter course in the hands of a semi pro).
I am looking forward to pobst running it around Laguna Seca and seeing some more comparisons like VIR to the GS (and C7 Z51)
I know it's old and outdated but the list of cars that run these tracks faster than than a C7Z is short and only much more expensive. With the ZLE right behind it (just too much of a street car ride compromise but wicked nonetheless).
Last edited by 23/C8Z; 09-01-2020 at 07:20 PM.
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B747VET (09-02-2020)
09-01-2020, 07:28 PM
#112
Time will tell my man. But I would bet the farm on the. C8 z51 and C7 Z06 on track being worlds apart for time. No matter the track.
I only say that because of what I've seen from poorsha's "hipo driver" you tube channel. His GS couldn't keep up with his C7Zs and from what we already know the C7GS and the C8Z51 are similar performers on track (within 2 seconds on the ring and only a couple slower on a much shorter course in the hands of a semi pro).
I am looking forward to pobst running it around Laguna Seca and seeing some more comparisons like VIR to the GS (and C7 Z51)
I know it's old and outdated but the list of cars that run these tracks faster than than a C7Z is short and only much more expensive. With the ZLE right behind it (just too much of a street car ride compromise but wicked nonetheless).
I only say that because of what I've seen from poorsha's "hipo driver" you tube channel. His GS couldn't keep up with his C7Zs and from what we already know the C7GS and the C8Z51 are similar performers on track (within 2 seconds on the ring and only a couple slower on a much shorter course in the hands of a semi pro).
I am looking forward to pobst running it around Laguna Seca and seeing some more comparisons like VIR to the GS (and C7 Z51)
I know it's old and outdated but the list of cars that run these tracks faster than than a C7Z is short and only much more expensive. With the ZLE right behind it (just too much of a street car ride compromise but wicked nonetheless).
That's me in my C5 Z06 right now.I saw that vid. Didn't he have a passenger in the C8 and mods on the C7GS though? Not really apples to apples. I think those 2 are probably really close on equal footing.
I'm sure a track/weather scenario could be constructed to favor one type of car over another. Don't you think?
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23/C8Z (09-01-2020)
09-01-2020, 07:32 PM
#113
Time will tell my man. But I would bet the farm on the. C8 z51 and C7 Z06 on track being worlds apart for time. No matter the track.
I only say that because of what I've seen from poorsha's "hipo driver" you tube channel. His GS couldn't keep up with his C7Zs and from what we already know the C7GS and the C8Z51 are similar performers on track (within 2 seconds on the ring and only a couple slower on a much shorter course in the hands of a semi pro).
I am looking forward to pobst running it around Laguna Seca and seeing some more comparisons like VIR to the GS (and C7 Z51)
I know it's old and outdated but the list of cars that run these tracks faster than than a C7Z is short and only much more expensive. With the ZLE right behind it (just too much of a street car ride compromise but wicked nonetheless).
I only say that because of what I've seen from poorsha's "hipo driver" you tube channel. His GS couldn't keep up with his C7Zs and from what we already know the C7GS and the C8Z51 are similar performers on track (within 2 seconds on the ring and only a couple slower on a much shorter course in the hands of a semi pro).
I am looking forward to pobst running it around Laguna Seca and seeing some more comparisons like VIR to the GS (and C7 Z51)
I know it's old and outdated but the list of cars that run these tracks faster than than a C7Z is short and only much more expensive. With the ZLE right behind it (just too much of a street car ride compromise but wicked nonetheless).
Last edited by ZRacerLE; 09-01-2020 at 07:33 PM.
09-01-2020, 07:32 PM
#114
Race Director
What I think is an ME C8 with tight gearing a DCT better tire tech 30hp more and ***** ton of money thrown at it with a decade of R&D behind it should be faster than the C7GS. We have yet to see that or have anyone say that who has raced both extensively.
Having said that. I asked an instructor at Spring Mountain earlier this year about he C8 vs C7 on their tracks. On the 2.1 mile iirc? He said he could get around it a full second quicker than the C7GS. Unfortunately we have yet to see that in any meaningful way.
If anyone can prove it one way or the other? It's Poorsha. Imo. (Unbiased).
* forgot to add - out of Jim mero's own lips - the fastest laps he ran with any C7 including ZR1 were the A8 cars. Poorsha's GS (and Z06 and ZR) were M7... iirc he also concluded the A8 cars were faster comparing his own ZR1 to a friend's A8 ZR1 which was a few mph faster at the end of the straights. Iirc he referenced the gearing and having to make that one last shift or something being the culprit.
Having said that. I asked an instructor at Spring Mountain earlier this year about he C8 vs C7 on their tracks. On the 2.1 mile iirc? He said he could get around it a full second quicker than the C7GS. Unfortunately we have yet to see that in any meaningful way.
If anyone can prove it one way or the other? It's Poorsha. Imo. (Unbiased).
* forgot to add - out of Jim mero's own lips - the fastest laps he ran with any C7 including ZR1 were the A8 cars. Poorsha's GS (and Z06 and ZR) were M7... iirc he also concluded the A8 cars were faster comparing his own ZR1 to a friend's A8 ZR1 which was a few mph faster at the end of the straights. Iirc he referenced the gearing and having to make that one last shift or something being the culprit.
Last edited by 23/C8Z; 09-01-2020 at 07:38 PM.
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foo.c (09-01-2020)
09-01-2020, 07:34 PM
#115
Yeah, C6ZR is the only worthy C6 anyway. But the clock is ticking fast on it being a worthy purchase.
C6 owners better get on their horse and ride into today's game.
Imagine being a C6 owner and talking **** about a C8 lol. Like go experoience the C7 first, then come talk.
It's basically like a joe schmo sitting courtside talking **** to an NBA player saying, "you suck man you missed the free throw!!!!"
But like he's a nobody sitting and the player is earning millions, while missing that free throw
C6 owners better get on their horse and ride into today's game.
Imagine being a C6 owner and talking **** about a C8 lol. Like go experoience the C7 first, then come talk.
It's basically like a joe schmo sitting courtside talking **** to an NBA player saying, "you suck man you missed the free throw!!!!"
But like he's a nobody sitting and the player is earning millions, while missing that free throw
09-01-2020, 07:52 PM
#116
Is there any real evidence of the C8 Z06 being naturally aspirated? All of the Cad models and leaked information we have suggests that it will use twin-turbos. ZERV, the original leaker, did mention that the LT2 would be replaced by a naturally aspirated DOHC V8 at some point in the C8 life cycle, but he was under the impression that the the high-performance models would be turbocharged. Of course, plans could have changed with GM restructuring lineups, cutting budgets for ICE development, and focusing on EVs; that's why the new top-tier Cadillac CT5-V and a new version of the Escalade will get the LT4 or LT5 instead of a more efficient twin-turbo DOHC engine.
The biggest red flag to me isn't the reliability of a N/A FPC motor, but its emissions and fuel consumption. There's no way that they could get one to pass European or Australian regulations without serious cylinder deactivation and start/stop integration, and no Z06 buyer wants either. Twin turbochargers would allow for a lower displacement and would have much more low-end grunt, so fuel consumption would be a lot better around town. Of course, they could make it a hybrid, but it would be really pushing the boundaries on weight.
My money is on this:
The biggest red flag to me isn't the reliability of a N/A FPC motor, but its emissions and fuel consumption. There's no way that they could get one to pass European or Australian regulations without serious cylinder deactivation and start/stop integration, and no Z06 buyer wants either. Twin turbochargers would allow for a lower displacement and would have much more low-end grunt, so fuel consumption would be a lot better around town. Of course, they could make it a hybrid, but it would be really pushing the boundaries on weight.
My money is on this:
- Z06 with a small-displacement DOHC TT FPC V8 making somewhere between 650 and 700hp, not much heavier than a Stingray
- ZR1 with with the same engine stroked out, plus bigger turbochargers and a twin-motor hybrid system, much heavier than Z06 but much quicker
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vettesweetnos (09-02-2020)
09-01-2020, 07:59 PM
#117
Race Director
I feel the opposite. I think MT got it right this time and gm freaked. Made them retract immediately lmao.
They screwed the dyno up because they're morons and then someone slipped them the inside scoop on Z06 and they let it out then had to recant.
They screwed the dyno up because they're morons and then someone slipped them the inside scoop on Z06 and they let it out then had to recant.
Last edited by 23/C8Z; 09-01-2020 at 08:00 PM.
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vettesweetnos (09-02-2020)
09-01-2020, 08:01 PM
#118
I guess it depends on your definition of "close". If I'm single digit seconds over a 3 mile course behind a car with 25% more power and/or less weight and costs more, I'm pretty happy with that. That's me in my C5 Z06 right now.
I saw that vid. Didn't he have a passenger in the C8 and mods on the C7GS though? Not really apples to apples. I think those 2 are probably really close on equal footing.
I'm sure a track/weather scenario could be constructed to favor one type of car over another. Don't you think?
That's me in my C5 Z06 right now.I saw that vid. Didn't he have a passenger in the C8 and mods on the C7GS though? Not really apples to apples. I think those 2 are probably really close on equal footing.
I'm sure a track/weather scenario could be constructed to favor one type of car over another. Don't you think?
I think the goal for GM was for the c8 stingray to be significantly better than the c7 stingray. Mission accomplished.
The fact it can do all the other things, are just bonuses. Like out digging cars with way more power etc.
These high performance variants can't come soon enough.
09-01-2020, 11:03 PM
#119
Burning Brakes
If GM's engineers found a way to make a 5.5L naturally aspirated DOHC FPC V8 that passes U.S. emissions standards while reliably producing over 600hp at more than 8500rpm, they all deserve a big pay raise. I hope that Motor Trend is accurate, and I know that Lieberman at MT has connections with GM performance engineers, but I just can't wrap my mind around those numbers. That's the kind of engine that Ferrari wishes it could make, and the one Ford should've.
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09-02-2020, 04:40 AM
#120
Banned Scam/Spammer
I have been thinking these configurations make the most sense for months now. There are a lot of arguments for it. On the other side you have the C8R and two major car magazines, MT & CD, saying it is NA 5.5l. I know the car magazines make mistakes but both of them getting the same story and claiming they yave inside info? It's not like a random guy posting here, they both have GM connections. I guess GM could be working a clever disinformation campaign and planningto reveal a 700hp TT Z06. But both MT and CD makes me think there is more to the NA 5.5 story.
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vettesweetnos (09-02-2020)