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Like OEM.....no difference at all with shifting and operation. Nothing unusual in the filter. I only started using it after several guys that run their C8's @ Road America vouched for it. Valvoline is a tier-1 GM racing sponsor, I would expect nothing less than oem level function.
Great info, Road America is my home track as well. I'll likely make the switch next fluid change.
From: Early 2020 Z51 Coupe, Original Owner, Ahwatukee Foothills, AZ
Originally Posted by gsvette
Like OEM.....no difference at all with shifting and operation. Nothing unusual in the filter. I only started using it after several guys that run their C8's @ Road America vouched for it. Valvoline is a tier-1 GM racing sponsor, I would expect nothing less than oem level function.
Agree 100%. Been using 2 years, paid 7.58qt.
Valvoline 888705 produced by Fuchs just like AC Delco without that private label !!
For 2 hours of my time I'd rather take it to the dealer.
Originally Posted by Mark9
Can get up to 9.5 liters out on a long drain. Plus 2 more for track fill. 12 is insurance....
Won't get a dealer to do the 2 extra quarts of track fill in 2 hours or cheap. Granted if you need the 2 quart "overfill" AND have a QuickJacK to lift one side safely this is a good, detailed explanation!
Valvoline website under vehicle fitment guide for use in product finder, recommends the Valvoline FFL-4 DCT fluid in approvals and specs, for the Chevrolet Corvette C8 specifically.
Last edited by ArizonaZ06; Apr 16, 2025 at 03:24 PM.
In Product Data Sheets, there is a difference between recommended applications, approvals, and specifications. Recommended applications are made by the maker of the lubricant product. Approvals are typically something obtained from an OEM manufacturer, such Dexos R approved, or Getrag approved. Specification are generally something against which a lubricant has been evaluated.
The Valvoline PDS indicates FFL-4 is a recommended “application”. And, if you use the Valvoline product finder, it will recommend its Dual Clutch Transmission Fluid specifically for the C8. It does not say that the Valvoline product is made by Fuchs. On a side note, their product finder also recommends an oil for the engine – Premium Blue One Solution Diesel Oil - Go figure…?
The Amsoil product finder indicates Pentosin FFL-2, FFL-3, and FFL-4 are recommended applications. And, if you use their product finder, it will recommend the Amsoil Dual Clutch Transmission Fluid specifically for the C8.
And then there is the Amalie Dual Clutch Transmission Fluid. I can’t find any mention of FFL-4 in its data, but if you use their product finder it will specifically recommend their Dual Clutch Transmission Fluid specifically for the C8. It says its made in USA too.
And let’s not forget the Fuchs Titan FFL-4 product. If you use the Fuchs product finder it will recommend Fuch Titan FFL-4 (no EG in the name) specifically for the C8.
All well and good, but what exactly does GM recommend? That’s going to depend on where you look.
The Owner's Manaul's do not say what to use - instead saying "see your dealer". So, how does the dealer determine the correct fluid?
In the GM Service Manual I have, it indicates Fuch Titan EG FFL-4 TREMEC. What’s up with the EG?? Nothing. It means factory fill. A forum member contacted Fuchs about it, and the response, attached, indicates that Fuch Titan FFL-4 and Fuchs Titan EG FFL-4 are the same spec. So that puts that issue to bed.
In another part of the same Service Manual, GM indicates Pentosin FFL-4. But that’s ok – Pentosin was renamed Titan per a Fuchs flyer attached.
So, Fuchs Titan FFL-4, Fuch Titan EG FFL-4, and Pentosin FFL4 (and also by inference Pentosin EG FFL-4) are all the same.
And, in a 2020 tech link article, GM recommends ACDelco DCT FFL-4 (not a typo on my part, but the name on the bottle is DCTF FFL-4). We know from PDS and other sources that Fuchs makes the Delco DCTF FFL-4, but is it the same formulation as the Fuchs product? Fuchs was contacted by a forum member and asked that question, but declined to answer (response attached). But I ran across an Australian SDS for the Delco product which indicates its made by Fuchs. It has an other names sections and there we find Pentosin EG FFL-4 listed.
So if this is correct, the Pentosin EG FFL-4, Pentosin FFL-4, Fuchs Titan FFL-4, Fuch Titan EG FFL-4 and ACDelco DCTF FFL-4 are the same.
One more thing – what does Tremec recommend? In the Tremec flyer, we find Fuchs Titan EG FFL-4, which we have established is the same as Fuchs Titan FFL-4, etc.
Notable to me is that both GM and Tremec recommend a specific product by name.
I’m not saying there is anything wrong with any of the products discussed.
If you choose a product other than the ones recommended by GM and Tremec, such as Valvoline, Amalie, or Amsoil, you are basing that choice on something other than the OEM recommendation, such as the reputation of the lubricant manufacturer, or reported use of the product by other.
VALVOLINE PRODUCT DATA SHEET:
VALVOLINE PRODUCT FINDER:
AMSOIL PRODUCT DATA SHEET:
AMSOIL PRODUCT FINDER:
AMALIE PRODUCT DATA SUMMARY:
AMALIE PRODUCT FINDER:
FUCHS PRODUCT FINDER:
FROM THE C8 SERVICE MANUAL :
FUCHS RESPONSE - FUCHS TITAN EG FFL-4 AND FUCHS TITAN FFL-4 ARE THE SAME SPEC:
In Product Data Sheets, there is a difference between recommended applications, approvals, and specifications. Recommended applications are made by the maker of the lubricant product. Approvals are typically something obtained from an OEM manufacturer, such Dexos R approved, or Getrag approved. Specification are generally something against which a lubricant has been evaluated.
If you choose a product other than the ones recommended by GM and Tremec, such as Valvoline, Amalie, or Amsoil, you are basing that choice on something other than the OEM recommendation, such as the reputation of the lubricant manufacturer, or reported use of the product by other.
Andy - Appreciate your always thorough responses. But there are a couple of simple concepts regarding lubrication:
1) Recommendation of a product that meets their application requirements is all any OEM manufacturer can provide. They cannot require specific name brands of lubricants or any other fluid or replacement part for warranty "compliance" because none of them have a mechanical use case that requires a custom designed or proprietary lubricant. That could change if jet or turbine engines are included in a future street vehicle.
2) As I've said many times, there is nothing special about a C8 Corvette or its components. What do Tremec, Dana, and ZF DCT transmission all have in common? They all use Borg-Warner clutch friction plates. TR-9080 is C8 Corvette. Dana owns Graziano which is the DCT in my McLaren (and all McLarens), Audi R8, and Lamborghini. ZF is the PDK DCT for Porsche. Dana, Borg-Warner, and Tremec in particular have collaborated together for decades and these oem's ALL use cookbook engineering designs with many common parts that provide the lowest cost supply chains.
What is a DCT?......clutch packs, helical cut gears, shift forks, valve bodies, shift solenoids, etc....they all use the same components with similar gear trains and operating methods. As such, none of them require a special lubricant beyond a high quality synthetic gear oil with the correct range of viscosity and wear additives that provides an extended drain interval....which Valvoline 888705 absolutely does, and which ANY of the products you included data sheets would as well.
Pick the lubricant with the best price and availability. Anything else is marketing BS.
Andy - Appreciate your always thorough responses. But there are a couple of simple concepts regarding lubrication:
1) Recommendation of a product that meets their application requirements is all any OEM manufacturer can provide. They cannot require specific name brands of lubricants or any other fluid ........
And that is the issue. How do I know that Amalie Dual Clutch Transmission Fluid meets GMs or TREMECs requirements for use in the C8 transmnission? The Amalie Product Finder recommends it use for the C8. Based on what? If I were to use it, it would be because the Amalie product finder recommended it - I would have no other basis. It would be an assumption on my part that Amalie did their due diligence and determined that their product meets the GM requirements for the C8 transmission.
It been stated over an over that GM can't require a specific brand of oil - but they can require the use of an oil that meets their requirements. And in the case of GM they say "Use engine oils that meet the dexosR Performance Engine Oil specification. They "recommend" but do not require "Mobil 1 engine oils that show the dexosR approved logo." You can use any motor oil you want, as long as it meets the dexos R specification. And that is a specification that any oil manufacturer can obtain and develop their product to meet. Amsoil appears to do that - they claim that their motor meets or exceeds the dexos R requirements but choose not to submit it for the license. Or, a manufacturer can submit their product for analysis by GM and be licensed to display the dexos R logo. So, two ways one can know that a motor oil meets GMs requirements - 1) look for a dexos R licensed product, or 2) the maker of the motor oil tells you their product meets or exceeds the GM requirement.
But GM does not appear to specify the transmission fluid the same way - and that is why I quoted exactly what GM and TREMEC seem to require. Unlike motor oil, the Owner's Manual provides no stated requirement - no basis whatsoever for for selecting a transmission fluid for the C8. Instead it says see your dealer. And when you look at what the dealer has, again you find NO recommendation - no language that says "Use a Dual Clutch Transmission Fluid that meets xyz specification". It does not say " use any FFL-4 type fluid". No. It indicates a specific brand as follows: "Use Fuchs TITAN EG FFL-4 TREMEC transmission fluid only." A specific brand, just what everyone says they are not supposed or not "allowed" to do. The TREMEC flyer also lists a specific product - with no language about "meeting a xyz requirement or equivalent"
I'm not trying to make a statement about the fluid being special, or the transmission guts being special. My point is that there is no stated OEM requirement or specification that can be used to determine if Amalie, Amsoil, or Valvoline meet the OEM requirements. I am not saying they do or don't, not saying that they pose any issue - only that if you use one of those products you are taking the word of the maker of the product that its ok for use in the C8 - or taking the recommendation of someone who has used it, or whatever.
I'm not trying to make a statement about the fluid being special, or the transmission guts being special. My point is that there is no stated OEM requirement or specification that can be used to determine if Amalie, Amsoil, or Valvoline meet the OEM requirements. I am not saying they do or don't, not saying that they pose any issue - only that if you use one of those products you are taking the word of the maker of the product that its ok for use in the C8 - or taking the recommendation of someone who has used it, or whatever.
1) I have run Valvoline 888705 DCT fluid in my own C8 Corvette for thousands of miles on the street with no issues.
2) I personally know of at least 3 dedicated C8 track cars that have run Valvoline 888705 DCT fluid for thousands of miles on the race track with no issues.
3) Published specs and lab UOA's confirm Valvoline 888705 is a suitable FFL-4/GL-5 class synthetic lubricant with an excellent additive package.
4) I and others have emails from Valvoline stating in writing their recommendation to use 888705 fluid in the C8 Corvette.
5) Valvoline states: "Valvoline stands behind all of its products, including Dual Clutch ATF. Use of Dual Clutch ATF in transmissions where recommended by Valvoline WILL NOT void the vehicle's warranty. In the unlikely event that you or your customer experiences any transmission issues while using Dual Clutch ATF in a Valvoline recommended application, please contact Valvoline at 1-800-Team-VAL for assistance."
6) Numerous online auto parts retailer and other third party application guides recommend Valvoline 888705 as suitable for C8 Corvette DCT.
7) Dodson recommends Valvoline 888705 for high-HP use with their TR-9080 racing clutches.
8) McLaren cars retail for 4-5X that of a C8 Corvette. My McLaren dealer recommends Valvoline 888705 for the DCT in my 650S as well as their other vehicles, all of which use similar internal components from the same suppliers as a TR-9080.
If somthing walks like a duck and quacks like a duck, does it require a published spec or certification or "official" signage to know it is a duck? Does it make sense for one person to state "that is a duck" and another person to respond "well it's your opinion that is a duck"?
I bought a single bottle of Delco 19418016. Dipped my finger in it, rubbed it, smelled it. Did the same for Valvoline 888705. Yep, both seem like transmission fluid to me. In the interest of science, I am sending both in to Blackstone labs for analysis. I will publish the result here so we can all feel comfortable with laboratory analysis and "proof" thus avoiding the need to accept anyones word or opinion that something that walks like a duck, flies like a duck, quacks like a duck, has feathers like a duck, smells like a duck, feels like a duck, is in fact......a duck.
1) I have run Valvoline 888705 DCT fluid in my own C8 Corvette for thousands of miles on the street with no issues.
2) I personally know of at least 3 dedicated C8 track cars that have run Valvoline 888705 DCT fluid for thousands of miles on the race track with no issues.
3) Published specs and lab UOA's confirm Valvoline 888705 is a suitable FFL-4/GL-5 class synthetic lubricant with an excellent additive package.
4) I and others have emails from Valvoline stating in writing their recommendation to use 888705 fluid in the C8 Corvette.
5) Valvoline states: "Valvoline stands behind all of its products, including Dual Clutch ATF. Use of Dual Clutch ATF in transmissions where recommended by Valvoline WILL NOT void the vehicle's warranty. In the unlikely event that you or your customer experiences any transmission issues while using Dual Clutch ATF in a Valvoline recommended application, please contact Valvoline at 1-800-Team-VAL for assistance."
6) Numerous online auto parts retailer and other third party application guides recommend Valvoline 888705 as suitable for C8 Corvette DCT.
7) Dodson recommends Valvoline 888705 for high-HP use with their TR-9080 racing clutches.
8) McLaren cars retail for 4-5X that of a C8 Corvette. My McLaren dealer recommends Valvoline 888705 for the DCT in my 650S as well as their other vehicles, all of which use similar internal components from the same suppliers as a TR-9080.
If somthing walks like a duck and quacks like a duck, does it require a published spec or certification or "official" signage to know it is a duck? Does it make sense for one person to state "that is a duck" and another person to respond "well it's your opinion that is a duck"?
I bought a single bottle of Delco 19418016. Dipped my finger in it, rubbed it, smelled it. Did the same for Valvoline 888705. Yep, both seem like transmission fluid to me. In the interest of science, I am sending both in to Blackstone labs for analysis. I will publish the result here so we can all feel comfortable with laboratory analysis and "proof" thus avoiding the need to accept anyones word or opinion that something that walks like a duck, flies like a duck, quacks like a duck, has feathers like a duck, smells like a duck, feels like a duck, is in fact......a duck.
Have never disagreed with any of the bolded text - I even said one could base that choice on the recommendation of the lubricant maker (Valvoline in this case) and experience of other using the product - which is exactly what you are describing in the bold text - and I included that rationale in my discussion because I noticed that you previously made that point - I was agreeing with you.
Regarding your duck analogy - while I would trust my instincts on being able to recognize a duck, I would have far less confidence in using the finger test and smell test you described to decide what to put in my C8 transmission. I like your other rationale about Valvoline recommendation and the experience of others much better.
But Amalie and Amsoil also recommend their product for use in the C8. I posted their product finder results showing that. Would you be comfortable using them or recommending them to others?
This item stood out to me as important: "3) Published specs and lab UOA's confirm Valvoline 888705 is a suitable FFL-4/GL-5 class synthetic lubricant with an excellent additive package." Can you say more about that? Do you have link to the "Published Specs" , and to the "lab UOA's" . Also, where is the definition of "FFL-4" class? I can readily find GL-5 class, but finding anything that says FFL-4 is "class" of lubricant seems elusive.
This item stood out to me as important: "3) Published specs and lab UOA's confirm Valvoline 888705 is a suitable FFL-4/GL-5 class synthetic lubricant with an excellent additive package." Can you say more about that? Do you have link to the "Published Specs" , and to the "lab UOA's" . Also, where is the definition of "FFL-4" class? I can readily find GL-5 class, but finding anything that says FFL-4 is "class" of lubricant seems elusive.
I have seen Blackstone UOA's on C8 DCT oil...both Delco and Valvoline with similar track hours....it's been a couple of years but they were both indistinguishable with perhaps Valvoline DCT having a slight bit better retained VI and additive package. Lab analysis is as close anyone is going to get on this class of lubricant.
Once I get the VOA's back from Blackstone I will post the details, and after I do the first DCT fluid/filter on my new ERay @ around 2,500 miles, I'll send a DCT oil sample to Blackstone as well.
Based on the excellent UOA's, the C8 road racers around here have told me Valvoline DCT is a no brainer. Another big factor is Valvoline focuses on racers, tuners and independent shops. I mention the 888705 part# because that is the quart bottle, but these guys buy #888703 which is the 55-gallon drum part# at under $5/qt.....and this is one of the key benefits of using an aftermarket DCT lubricant.
10 quarts of Valvoline DCT and a Delco filter runs $100 - $150....depending on bulk purchasing. I have all the other tools.....lift, scan tool, pressurized fluid extractor, etc to do the proper fluid service, flush, and leak test in a couple of hours. Thus changing the DCT oil becomes a cost effective and routine yearly service. Yearly DCT service excessive you think?.....it isn't because McLaren, Lambo, Ferrari and others recommend yearly DCT service, and the Dana/Graziano 7-speed used in my 650S is common to several other performance cars as well. These are all split sump DCT designs.....ie the clutch uses FFL-4 fluid and the rest of the trans uses 75W-90 synthetic gear oil. There is therefore no possibility for clutch wear particles to contaminate valve bodies, shift solenoids, etc.
I'm not going to armchair quarterback why GM makes the decisions it makes other than to say it drove me nearly insane in the three years I was a GM Engineer. That said:
1) Why GM/Tremec decided on a bespoke DCT for C8 when there are many proven and reliable DCT's available is a mystery to me.
2) The decision to make the TR-9080 a shared sump when other proven designs are split sump is another mystery to me.
3) GM recommended C8 DCT mileage/service intervals are yet another mystery to me.
4) The idiotic gear ratios chosen for the C8/TR-9080 are......simply idiotic corporate "committee engineering" at its finest.
Most of the C8 DCT problems I have read about do not seem to be hard failures....they are likely clutch wear contamination of small orifices, valve body, and close tolerance components. Constant launch mode and drag racing starts likely contribute to this.
Changing the DCT oil yearly @ a DIY cost of $150 to keep the shared sump TR-9080 as clean as possible makes A LOT of sense.
GM's 22K miles on replacing the DCT filter and 45K miles on DCT fluid makes ZERO sense to this engineer. Add in the $1,500 most dealers charge for DCT "service" = hard pass.
I've never defended GMs maintenance requirements - only stated them.
The Maserati MC-20 uses the same bespoke transmission. But their maintenance requirements differ.
They don't have DCT external canister filter change at 7500, but they do at 9320, the first time and every time - every 9320 - or yearly (never 22,500 miles).
They requires a transmission fluid change at 37280 miles or every 4 years.
And they require a replacement of the internal filter 8 years or 74560 miles.
Masertti actually list a "Recommended Fluid: Fuchs Titan FFL-4". In this case it is recommended without further caveats.
I'm not defending their maintenance requirements either.
GM and Maserati both require a change of the filter and the fluid every 24 hours of track use.
From: Early 2020 Z51 Coupe, Original Owner, Ahwatukee Foothills, AZ
Originally Posted by EvanD
Did I miss the answer to "I’ll bite, where does it say made by Fuchs and where does Valvoline say it’s FFL-4?"?
Valvoline DCT labeled and bottled under FFL-4 and is a go to for the 9080 Tremec for the MC20 Maserati and C8 enthusiasts. A number of members have successfully and extensively used the Valvoline DCT. Been using now on my C8 for over 10K and noticed smoother shifting since moving from the private labeled AC Delco DCT. Fuchs as standard practice declines oem proprietary information on labeled products.
1. Fuchs does in fact acknowledge that they make the ACDelco product - what they will not do is disclose any data on the forumulation of their client product.
2. The Maserati MC20 Owners Manual recommends Fuchs Titan FFL-4. The Google AI answer in post 37, to the question appears to be an incorrect AI result - and I was also unable to reproduce it. When one gets an AI answer, one should always look at the sources provided with the AI answer to make sure its valid. When I searched using Google (I normally do not use Google), the AI answer that I got, using exactly the same question, was this: "AI Overview The Maserati MC20 uses Titan FFL-4 Fuchs differential fluid, which is also known as Pentosin. It's mandatory to use this specific fluid when servicing the gearbox, according to a Technical Documentation." However, I actually looked at the source for the AI answer - and it is very credible. https://static.nhtsa.gov/odi/tsbs/20...12116-0001.pdf
It appears to be a clip from a Maserati Service Manual - and uses unambiguous wording - its not a recommendation - its "mandatory: "Whenever the gearbox is replaced or serviced, it is mandatory to use the specified differential fluid listed in TechDocs (Titan FFL-4 Fuchs, formerly Pentosin), which is readily available through local commercial channels."
3. In its product data sheet, Valvoline list, under recommended applications, "FFL-4". This does not mean it is is made by Fuchs. It could be, but there is no evidence of that. Someone could just contact Valvoline and ask them who makes it.
There are plenty of excellent lubricants outside the "recommendations" of GM.
I was talking to my buddy today from whom I bought my McLaren 650S, and he just had the DCT serviced in his 2023 C8Z @ 20K miles with Motul High-Torque DCTF. Gave his Chevy dealer 12-quarts of it and he said they didn't bat an eye. That's what he runs in his 765LT, and Motul specifically recommends it for Tremec DCT. It is a 100% pure synthetic Ester based lubricant and he says it's the best FFL-4 type DCT fluid available for any use case.
