Bracket racing strategy...
Melting Slicks
Joined: Jul 2002
Posts: 3,128
Likes: 3
From: Deltona (son of Deland and DAYTONA) FL
Glen knows what he's talking about. Thanks to him I understand how the timing system works, how R/T and ET figure into bracket racing, etc.
Last year when I swapped motors from my L48 to my 383, then back again, I couldn't figure out why I was suddenly going red when I put the 383 in it, then was late when I went back to the L48. Understanding R/T and rollouts helped me figure it out.
Now I just have to get healthy again so I can practice and execute .
Last year when I swapped motors from my L48 to my 383, then back again, I couldn't figure out why I was suddenly going red when I put the 383 in it, then was late when I went back to the L48. Understanding R/T and rollouts helped me figure it out.
Now I just have to get healthy again so I can practice and execute .
Team Owner
Joined: Nov 1999
Posts: 32,782
Likes: 11
From: Former NCM Drag Racing coordinator, National director Corvette Challenge Spring Hill, Tennessee: Whiting, New Jersey
Cruise-In VI Veteran
Cruise-In VII Veteran
Nice job Glen, I got exhausted just reading all that.
Race Director
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 15,172
Likes: 86
From: State of Confusion
Originally Posted by isosceles
Glen knows what he's talking about.
NO BLOWING-SMOKE up my tail-pipe twice in the same thread (or I'll quit sending checks your-way ) .....
I received an E-mail from a Forum-member, asking questions about deep-staging, and how roll-out effects RT and ET:
I'm NOT 'the-authority', but I'll be glad to help-answer any questions as best-I-can to members of this Forum
(I ain't so-smart that "I" can't learn something, too!!!!! )
Race Director
Joined: Oct 1999
Posts: 13,298
Likes: 14
From: Somers NY
Originally Posted by Glensgages
I'm [U
I'm [U
NOT[/U] 'the-authority', but I'll be glad to help-answer any questions as best-I-can to members of this Forum
(I ain't so-smart that "I" can't learn something, too!!!!! )
[/COLOR][/FONT][/B]
(I ain't so-smart that "I" can't learn something, too!!!!! )
[/COLOR][/FONT][/B]How about helping me... This year has been a disaster from day 1
Race Director
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 15,172
Likes: 86
From: State of Confusion
Originally Posted by Red96Coupe
How about helping me...
Thread Starter
Team Owner
Joined: May 2002
Posts: 24,337
Likes: 25
From: San Diego , CA Double Yellow DirtBags 1985..Z51..6-speed
Sorry, I can't help. My local track no longer supports running bracket races or prepping the track, or having entry fees on par with dragstrips that do.
Race Director
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 15,172
Likes: 86
From: State of Confusion
Originally Posted by Glensgages
Watch this weekend's Pro Stock racing Sunday evening from Memphis on ESPN2, and you'll see what is called a 'hole-shot win', which is when a better driver wins with a slower car against a poorer racer with a quicker car.....
last week's Final Round was a perfect example of this:
Dave Connolly had a RT of .013, and an ET of 6.743, beating Jason Line's .052-initiated 6.737.
If you DON'T want to know what happened at today's rain-delayed race in Memphis, read-no-further!!!!!
.
.
.
.
.
Jason Line was victimized by another hole-shot loss in the Finals this morning (rain-delayed from Sunday ), this time by Kurt Johnson:
the rest of eliminations will be-shown late-Monday/early-Tuesday on ESPN2 (1AM Eastern Tuesday ), and if you watch it or tape it, you may see how this occurs.
Here is a link to the Pro Stock final-round results from Memphis:
http://www.dragracecentral.com/DRCSt...r=100#indextop
Last edited by Glensgages; Aug 21, 2006 at 03:15 PM.
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Race Director
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 15,172
Likes: 86
From: State of Confusion
visual-aid for DEEP-STAGING
..... if anybody watched, or taped, the eliminations from Memphis Motorsports Park, in the 2nd Round of Funny Car, you saw Phil Burkart 'knock-out' the top-bulb against Eric Medlin, creeping-forward a few inches, as-discussed earlier in this thread:
both cars hit the throttle at almost the same exact time (plumes of exhaust-smoke ) when viewed in slow-motion/freeze-frame (in-fact, Medlin's headers spout flames slightly-before Burkart's ), yet Burkart had the better RT, .068 to .097.
'ASSUMING' all things were equal between both cars (front-tires, chassis-flex, etc. ), the difference in RT was Medlin having to 'drive' forward those few inches, to the point that Burkart had staged his car to begin with (rear-edge of front tire just in-front of the Pre Stage beam ).
both cars hit the throttle at almost the same exact time (plumes of exhaust-smoke ) when viewed in slow-motion/freeze-frame (in-fact, Medlin's headers spout flames slightly-before Burkart's ), yet Burkart had the better RT, .068 to .097.
'ASSUMING' all things were equal between both cars (front-tires, chassis-flex, etc. ), the difference in RT was Medlin having to 'drive' forward those few inches, to the point that Burkart had staged his car to begin with (rear-edge of front tire just in-front of the Pre Stage beam ).
Safety Car
Joined: Jul 2002
Posts: 3,529
Likes: 1
From: Rehoboth MA
Against a 9 second car: Dial a litle bit quicker than you think it'll run, so you can keep the throttle pinned to the floor the whole way without having to worry about breaking out. Only lift, if you are ABSOLUTELY SURE that he's not going to catch you. You really can't judge those cars when they're coming at you at 140 MPH. IMO, the best thing to do is dial hard and cut the tree down.
Sandbagging: Only sandbag against someone else who sandbags.
Sandbagging: Only sandbag against someone else who sandbags.
Team Owner
Joined: Nov 1999
Posts: 32,782
Likes: 11
From: Former NCM Drag Racing coordinator, National director Corvette Challenge Spring Hill, Tennessee: Whiting, New Jersey
Cruise-In VI Veteran
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Originally Posted by Red96Coupe
How about helping me... This year has been a disaster from day 1
Maybe your getting OLD
Race Director
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 15,172
Likes: 86
From: State of Confusion
Sandbagging: Only sandbag against someone else who sandbags.
A 'known' bagger, dialing .02-soft, is .02-closer to running-under than me if I dial dead-on honest, making him .02-seconds more-susceptible to losing in the event of an all-out, *****-to-the-wall run:
if an opponent is THAT-talented (able to judge the stripe THAT-closely ), he should just hit the tree .02-or-better every run, which few are able to accomplish.
Excluding disqualification via safety, cheating, or crossing the center-line, there are 4 basic reasons for losing a bracket-race:
#1 - red-light/foul-start
#2 - poor reaction-time
#3 - break-out/run-under
#4 - running-off your dial
A 'bagger' is increasing his chances of losing via Reason #3 BEFORE he even enters the water-box.
Drifting
Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 1,457
Likes: 22
Originally Posted by Glensgages
Excluding disqualification via safety, cheating, or crossing the center-line, there are 4 basic reasons for losing a bracket-race:
#1 - red-light/foul-start
#2 - poor reaction-time
#3 - break-out/run-under
#4 - running-off your dial
A 'bagger' is increasing his chances of losing via Reason #3 BEFORE he even enters the water-box.
Last edited by kazman; Aug 25, 2006 at 09:29 AM.
Melting Slicks
Joined: Jul 2002
Posts: 3,128
Likes: 3
From: Deltona (son of Deland and DAYTONA) FL
Originally Posted by Glensgages
..... I've told you before:
NO BLOWING-SMOKE up my tail-pipe twice in the same thread (or I'll quit sending checks your-way ) .....
NO BLOWING-SMOKE up my tail-pipe twice in the same thread (or I'll quit sending checks your-way ) .....
I forgot I had even replied to this thread! Shows ya my current physical/mental state.You can learn a lot about R/T's and rollout by watching the NHRA events in slow motion. A few weeks back when Dave Connolly cut a .000 light you could see the prestage light go out first, then the stage light go out just as the green light was coming on.
Last edited by isosceles; Aug 25, 2006 at 10:22 AM.
Le Mans Master
Joined: Sep 2004
Posts: 7,027
Likes: 6
From: Shiloh Ohio
Originally Posted by CentralCoaster
I'm only consistent within a tenth or a bit more. I can usually get em off the tree though. Last time out I ran a .500, .502, and .503 reaction time.
His main problem is he can only dial in within a tenth. If I had those RT's I could not be beat.
I mean who really runs that kind of RT. Not that I don't believe it but that is extraordinary.
Anyway you need to be able to predict your ET better. Do you have a wx meter that can give you DA or temp, humidity, and barometer? That should help your dial in.
You need to be able to predict within .04 to be a consistent winner. If you are really running those kind of RT's you would win every night with a good dial in.
I calculate my dial in and subtract .02 usually so I can blow it out the back door if needed. The end game is complicated, depends on what is going on at the end of the race. But if I was running your RT's in stock class I would be letting off most of the time, guaranteed. With basically three dead on RT's you should be giving us advice.
Race Director
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 15,172
Likes: 86
From: State of Confusion
Originally Posted by kazman
Bottom line is that you need to have a strategy that works for you.
I didn't mean to infer your ideas were bogus:
I just can't seem to master top-end racing against much-quicker/slower cars via dialing-soft.
Melting Slicks
Joined: Mar 2000
Posts: 2,975
Likes: 1
From: Northwest Iowa
Great thread!
Thanks to Glengages for point me in this direction. Great information the I will re-read several times between now and next spring when the track opens again.
Maybe the moderators could make this a sticky for a while.
Thanks again Glen.
Thanks to Glengages for point me in this direction. Great information the I will re-read several times between now and next spring when the track opens again.
Maybe the moderators could make this a sticky for a while.
Thanks again Glen.
Race Director
Joined: Oct 2001
Posts: 19,653
Likes: 428
From: Melbourne Florida
Cruise-In IV Veteran
I thought this was such a good thread that it might be time to bring it back up...we are now getting to our racing season down here and there will be a lot of events between now and next June...you folks up north can do a bit of bench racin' if your tracks are closed...
Race Director
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 15,172
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From: State of Confusion
Originally Posted by Fuzzy Dice
I thought this was such a good thread that it might be time to bring it back up...
Race Director
Joined: Sep 2001
Posts: 11,907
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From: Between a rock and a hard place, S.E. PA
Originally Posted by Glensgages
even-if you'd run .010-under, he'd STILL have-to run .031-under, and you still win.
In other words, if you slip up and not realize you're on a breakout run, it doesn't matter how good your light was, he only needs to be closer to his dial +/- doesn't matter anymore.