Bracket racing strategy...
Race Director
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 15,176
Likes: 87
From: State of Confusion
Originally Posted by kazman
Joe, you took stripe by 9.6283' A little less that 1/2 a car. A bit too much. You want to take the strip by .019 to .010 . I don't consider holding .05 sandbagging.
According to what Bob Brockmeyer, and NHRA-themselves, told-me, using those calculations and their formula, the distance-of-victory would be just-under 8'.....
Thanks-in-advance, Glen!!!!!
Last edited by Glensgages; Nov 17, 2006 at 04:24 PM.
Drifting
Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 1,457
Likes: 22
Originally Posted by Glensgages
I am curious how the distance-of-victory is 9.62' +, given the M-o-V is .048 seconds, and the 2nd car to the stripe was traveling 113.50 MPH?
According to what Bob Brockmeyer, and NHRA-themselves, told-me, using those calculations and their formula, the distance-of-victory would be just-under 8'.....
Thanks-in-advance, Glen!!!!!
According to what Bob Brockmeyer, and NHRA-themselves, told-me, using those calculations and their formula, the distance-of-victory would be just-under 8'.....
Thanks-in-advance, Glen!!!!!
(113.50 * .0175999) * 4.82 = 9.6283'
Race Director
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 15,176
Likes: 87
From: State of Confusion
Originally Posted by kazman
(MPH 2ND CAR TO CROSS * .0175999) * AMOUNT OF TIME BETWEEN THE FIRST CAR AND SECOND CAR TO CROSS IN THOUSANDS = FEET TAKEN AT THE STRIP
(113.50 * .0175999) * 4.82 = 9.6283'
(113.50 * .0175999) * 4.82 = 9.6283'
I was told was that you find how-far the 2nd car to the stripe travels in the time between the 2 cars reaching the finish-line, moving at his (2nd-car's ) MPH:
if that is correct, I'm calculating a car, traveling 113.50 MPH, covers 7.99' in .048-seconds, just-under 8'.....
Race Director
Joined: Sep 2001
Posts: 11,907
Likes: 1
From: Between a rock and a hard place, S.E. PA
Originally Posted by kazman
Joe, you took stripe by 9.6283' A little less that 1/2 a car. A bit too much. You want to take the strip by .019 to .010 . I don't consider holding .05 sandbagging.
Race Director
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 15,176
Likes: 87
From: State of Confusion
Originally Posted by C5pilot
The calculator I used came up differently.....
I think you can figure feet-per-second at any given MPH by multiplying the MPH x 1.4666, and here is the proof:
a car, traveling 60 MPH, covers 5280' in 60 seconds, so divide 5280 (feet ) by 60 (seconds ), and you find it travels 88'-per-second, hence 88 div/by 60 = 1.46666.
A car traveling 113.50 MPH covers 166.465'-per-second, or .166465'-per-THOUSANDTH-of-a-second (166.465 x .001 ):
with the Margin-of-Victory being .0482-seconds, multiply .166465 x 48.2 (thousandths-of-seconds ), and the Distance-of-Victory is 8.0236 feet.....
Here is where it gets funky.....
If you multiply 8.0236 feet x 12, to see how-many INCHES you were ahead, you see that distance to be 96.283, which is the exact-same number shown earlier, but with the decimal point one-space out-of-whack, and the distance listed as FEET, not 'inches'.....
This might come-in helpful when diagnosing wins/loses, and I am glad kazman got me thinking about this:
I will use the factor of ".1759992 " in the future, rather-than doing all my math long-hand.....
Le Mans Master
Joined: Feb 1999
Posts: 6,172
Likes: 11
From: somers, ny
i think if you can keep the margin under .020, you're doing your job as a driver.
Joe if you know the other guy is bagging a bunch, make sure you dial a number you know you can run. in otherwords dial soft. The only way the other guy knows where he's at is based on you and he will probably try to take the stripe by as little as possible. feed him as much as you can, then dump hard and he will likely go under further than you.
Joe if you know the other guy is bagging a bunch, make sure you dial a number you know you can run. in otherwords dial soft. The only way the other guy knows where he's at is based on you and he will probably try to take the stripe by as little as possible. feed him as much as you can, then dump hard and he will likely go under further than you.
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Race Director
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 15,176
Likes: 87
From: State of Confusion
Originally Posted by ralph
i think if you can keep the margin under .020, you're doing your job as a driver.
but it is much-easier when both cars are traveling at similar speeds to judge distance:
yesterday, I ran against a Super Gas-style C3 that blew past me at 140.40 MPH, and I was just 'hoping' that I held him off.....
Drifting
Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 1,457
Likes: 22
Originally Posted by ralph
i think if you can keep the margin under .020, you're doing your job as a driver.
Joe if you know the other guy is bagging a bunch, make sure you dial a number you know you can run. in otherwords dial soft. The only way the other guy knows where he's at is based on you and he will probably try to take the stripe by as little as possible. feed him as much as you can, then dump hard and he will likely go under further than you.
Joe if you know the other guy is bagging a bunch, make sure you dial a number you know you can run. in otherwords dial soft. The only way the other guy knows where he's at is based on you and he will probably try to take the stripe by as little as possible. feed him as much as you can, then dump hard and he will likely go under further than you.
Instructor
Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 136
Likes: 0
From: Alpharetta georgia
i like the "dial what you think your car will run, be good on the light, hold the GAS peddle 'till the end, and see who wins the "race""method. it makes for the best races, right to the line!!!!! i mean come on when some one sticks there nose out in front of you 4 times
down the track, you can bet that their nose will be in front at the end.
"drive it like you stole it"!!!!
down the track, you can bet that their nose will be in front at the end. "drive it like you stole it"!!!!
Melting Slicks
Joined: Apr 2004
Posts: 2,008
Likes: 38
From: Space Coast Gator Territory
I was having a difficult time cutting a consistent light. Glen suggested I try a practice tree to achieve my goal. I sold an unused toy and bought one with a foot pedal to simulate my brake. It has turned out to be a very helpful tool. I'd pass the recommendation on to anyone sharing my frustration while their RT fails to improve.
Instructor
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 244
Likes: 0
From: Phoenix AZ
In the 15+ years I have bracket raced, I always dial what the car will run.
I run it hard to the lights.
I run it hard thru the back end if I am checking top end mph gains or losses. (usually after cam change or whatever)
Most of the time I shut off after the ET light, so my mph reads a little slow -shrug- ..race is won or lost at that point
Nothing puts more of a smile on my face than to see a guy stick a fender up on me at 3/4 track or later.. if I cut a decent light, I know I have won at that point.
I prefer to work with hard data on each run to predict my next one, as Glen and some others have mentioned
The 440 powered duster on 13" x 31" slicks and skinnies up front reacted 'poorly' to any brake shenanigans at terminal speeds anyway
I've been gone awhile from brackets .. but gettin my feet wet again in this C-5 and learnin what I need to do in it to get a good r/t ..the car is pretty consistent already
-Frank (researchin sticky tars for the back)
I run it hard to the lights.
I run it hard thru the back end if I am checking top end mph gains or losses. (usually after cam change or whatever)
Most of the time I shut off after the ET light, so my mph reads a little slow -shrug- ..race is won or lost at that point
Nothing puts more of a smile on my face than to see a guy stick a fender up on me at 3/4 track or later.. if I cut a decent light, I know I have won at that point.
I prefer to work with hard data on each run to predict my next one, as Glen and some others have mentioned
The 440 powered duster on 13" x 31" slicks and skinnies up front reacted 'poorly' to any brake shenanigans at terminal speeds anyway
I've been gone awhile from brackets .. but gettin my feet wet again in this C-5 and learnin what I need to do in it to get a good r/t ..the car is pretty consistent already
-Frank (researchin sticky tars for the back)
Le Mans Master
Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 5,892
Likes: 1,200
From: Ft. Myers FL
i
Good advice Ralph,but,how do you really know what the other guy is doing? I try never to dial soft since it's against my nature not to hammer it all the way thru. Plus,remember, I'm an old guy & that's the way we learned to run...full out or you lose to hirohito tricks. 
Usually I lose because of a crappy RT of my own or my car will surprise me & decide to do something it didn't do all day. 
think if you can keep the margin under .020, you're doing your job as a driver.
Joe if you know the other guy is bagging a bunch, make sure you dial a number you know you can run. in otherwords dial soft. The only way the other guy knows where he's at is based on you and he will probably try to take the stripe by as little as possible. feed him as much as you can, then dump hard and he will likely go under further than you.
Joe if you know the other guy is bagging a bunch, make sure you dial a number you know you can run. in otherwords dial soft. The only way the other guy knows where he's at is based on you and he will probably try to take the stripe by as little as possible. feed him as much as you can, then dump hard and he will likely go under further than you.
Usually I lose because of a crappy RT of my own or my car will surprise me & decide to do something it didn't do all day.
Race Director
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 15,176
Likes: 87
From: State of Confusion
..... didn't realize this was asked of me until Beach Dude alerted me to the post
(then I thought "who-ELSE would he be asking?" )
We recently decided to have Tracy Lewis' RevXtreme Propulsion Laboratories in Sarasota inspect the 700-R4, and sure-enough the weak-knee'd transmission was in poor-condition, so it was rebuilt, with the intention of it surviving behind 500 HP (not that I'll ever have anything like that in this car)
while the car was there, and without my knowledge and to my surprise, Tracy decided to 'DE-Cross Fire' the '82, carefully removing everything, tagging-and-bagging it for future use (after I become worm-food), and installed a 650 double-pump Holley, a dual-plane intake, an MSD HEI, and 1.6:1 roller-rockers
(when you are starting with a cam that has .390" and .410" lift, you need all the help you can get)
I haven't run the car yet (just got it back 4 days ago), and I hope to get some short squirts in before we compete in a few local races in the coming weeks
(luckily, the house we bought is less-than 4 miles from Lakeland Motorsports Park, an 1/8-mile strip that is open every Thursday, including Thanksgiving evening, for test-and-tune, and every Saturday evening for racing):
Orlando's season-closing event, the 'Night of Fire' , is Saturday 22 October, Sunshine Drag Strip's 'Big Turkey Bracket Bash' is 2 days of racing, the Friday & Saturday after Thanksgiving, and the 'Snowbird Nationals' are at Bradenton Motorsports Park the 1st Friday-Saturday-Sunday of December.
I saw this thread on another Forum, and thought it might shed some light into opposing theories about dialing-in
http://drr.infopop.cc/eve/forums/a/t...2/m/2641054993
winning racers, with diverse opinions like Manny Sousa and Michael Beard, are explaining their ideas and trading insults.
(then I thought "who-ELSE would he be asking?" )
We recently decided to have Tracy Lewis' RevXtreme Propulsion Laboratories in Sarasota inspect the 700-R4, and sure-enough the weak-knee'd transmission was in poor-condition, so it was rebuilt, with the intention of it surviving behind 500 HP (not that I'll ever have anything like that in this car)
while the car was there, and without my knowledge and to my surprise, Tracy decided to 'DE-Cross Fire' the '82, carefully removing everything, tagging-and-bagging it for future use (after I become worm-food), and installed a 650 double-pump Holley, a dual-plane intake, an MSD HEI, and 1.6:1 roller-rockers
(when you are starting with a cam that has .390" and .410" lift, you need all the help you can get)
I haven't run the car yet (just got it back 4 days ago), and I hope to get some short squirts in before we compete in a few local races in the coming weeks
(luckily, the house we bought is less-than 4 miles from Lakeland Motorsports Park, an 1/8-mile strip that is open every Thursday, including Thanksgiving evening, for test-and-tune, and every Saturday evening for racing):
Orlando's season-closing event, the 'Night of Fire' , is Saturday 22 October, Sunshine Drag Strip's 'Big Turkey Bracket Bash' is 2 days of racing, the Friday & Saturday after Thanksgiving, and the 'Snowbird Nationals' are at Bradenton Motorsports Park the 1st Friday-Saturday-Sunday of December.
I saw this thread on another Forum, and thought it might shed some light into opposing theories about dialing-in
http://drr.infopop.cc/eve/forums/a/t...2/m/2641054993
winning racers, with diverse opinions like Manny Sousa and Michael Beard, are explaining their ideas and trading insults.
Race Director
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 15,176
Likes: 87
From: State of Confusion
.....
We recently decided to have Tracy Lewis' RevXtreme Propulsion Laboratories in Sarasota inspect the 700-R4, and sure-enough the weak-knee'd transmission was in poor-condition, so it was rebuilt.....
while the car was there, and without my knowledge and to my surprise, Tracy decided to 'DE-Cross Fire' the '82, and installed a 650 double-pump Holley, a dual-plane intake, an MSD HEI, and 1.6:1 roller-rockers.....
we haven't run the car yet, and I hope to get some short squirts in before we compete in a few local races in the coming weeks.
We recently decided to have Tracy Lewis' RevXtreme Propulsion Laboratories in Sarasota inspect the 700-R4, and sure-enough the weak-knee'd transmission was in poor-condition, so it was rebuilt.....
while the car was there, and without my knowledge and to my surprise, Tracy decided to 'DE-Cross Fire' the '82, and installed a 650 double-pump Holley, a dual-plane intake, an MSD HEI, and 1.6:1 roller-rockers.....
we haven't run the car yet, and I hope to get some short squirts in before we compete in a few local races in the coming weeks.
Here are some data from the car when I last ran it in early '07, box-stock except for 3.73 gears:
this will show how inconsistent it was on a 'typical' day at the track, all on *****-out runs ~
0060: 02.398 ~ 02.350 ~ 02.307 ~ 02.295 ~ 02.314 ~ 02.297
0660: 10.290 ~ 10.242 ~ 10.212 ~ 10.270 ~ 10.316 ~ 10.234
1320: 16.207 ~ 16.075 ~ 16.027 ~ 16.334 ~ 16.153 ~ 16.072
notice how the quickest 60' doesn't equal the best 660', or that the worst 660' doesn't equal the worst 1320, and how nothing seems to make sense
Here are same incrementals from a test-session yesterday at Bradenton Motorsports Park
0060: 02.003 ~ 02.009 ~ 01.999
0660: 08.994 ~ 09.000 ~ 09.004
1320: 14.059 ~ 14.044 ~ 14.062
much tighter grouping of runs
http://forums.corvetteforum.com/c3-t...rag-strip.html
Instructor
Joined: Feb 2009
Posts: 110
Likes: 0
From: Yuba City CA
The worst bracket racers I have ever seen at the track happen to be late model Mustang and Corvette owners. If some of you would take a day or two to show up at the track at talk to some expierienced racers, and sit at the finish line watching how it's really done, you could learn a lot more that taking stripe driving advise from guys lying about how good they are on the tree, and always seem to go home wondering what the hell happened. Some of these posts are pure comedy.
AMP Racing
Joined: Aug 2006
Posts: 10,755
Likes: 589
From: Washington TWP NJ
2023 C5 of the Year Finalist - Modified
2017 C5 of Year Finalist
St. Jude Donor '09-'10-'11-'12
The worst bracket racers I have ever seen at the track happen to be late model Mustang and Corvette owners. If some of you would take a day or two to show up at the track at talk to some expierienced racers, and sit at the finish line watching how it's really done, you could learn a lot more that taking stripe driving advise from guys lying about how good they are on the tree, and always seem to go home wondering what the hell happened. Some of these posts are pure comedy.
There are some really experienced racers here - and of course some with very little to no experience. This thread is titled "Bracket Racing Strategy"
People are posting what works for them and how they think it should be done for new racers.
How about letting us all in on your way of bracket racing, since you seem to think you know all there is to know about the subject.
