Thanks for providing the investiagtion. I had no idea it had been completed as to the cause of all the tragedies this year! It's the liberals! Wow! All the crazies take their orders from them! I never knew. So I guess we can just send them all to Massachusetts or Vermont, and there will never be a gun crime or tragedy again anywhere else, right? Problem solved!

As a moderate Independent, I don't know where that leaves me. There won't be anyone to the left of me so I'll be in trouble, and I'll be the one to blame for giving orders to the next person who uses a 100 round drum to take out a tour bus.

OK I'll drop the sarcasm......All I hear is reasonability of certain types of clips, and assault rifles no hunter I know uses. I have no idea why in light of the current law and court cases, gun lovers get so rabid over ANY reasonable proposal. No one is talking about deleting the 2nd Amendment, and it can't happen anyway without certain process that is SOO unlikely to ever occur. But I do guarantee one thing......if you can't come a little bit in the direction of better laws (i.e. you can't buy a gun at a gun show without a background check, which currently there is no such law) you run the risk of looking really out there and not being a part of the solution. I've met a lot of you, and none of you appear to me to be uneducated, simple minded folk incapable of reason. That said, simplistic statements of blame serve no purpose. I could just as simplistically blame Conservatives for the over 4K dead soldiers and 30K wounded in the lie that was the Bush induced Iraq war.

 

It was never my intention to start controversy in our Great Lakes section.

This thread started innocently with a poll on CCW (a right we don’t enjoy here in Illinois), I applaud the moderators that have allowed it to continue.

I have attempted to inform our section about laws and events pertaining to our hobby.

I would greatly appreciate if we keep it at that.

 

Vermont allows citizens to conceal carry a gun without a permit.

 

My point exactly Frank. Vernont is pretty crunchy and liberal in a lot of ways.

 

History tells us that banning anything in this country is futile. Let's try to remember two things:
1. The second amendment is a right, like privacy, religion, speech, unreasonable searches, etc. The founders were pretty astute.
2. I am done talking about this in this particular posting. Let's keep it to its original intent, i.e. info re CCW.

In the words of Forrest Gump, "That's all I have to say about that."
God bless us all and Merry Christmas (or at least as merry as it can be right now)

 

Same to you and yours Mark!

 

Very well...my only Big point was that the Rights you menion are NOT without accepted limits. The 2nd should be no different.

And to continue the theme you add : "Stupid Is as Stupid does!"

Be safe out there...snow is coming!

 

Not go off topic but I am in favor of banning snow!

 

I'm just going to get one of these.

 

You'll shoot your eye out Frank!

 

ZR1Owner,

I am not going to debate you hear (other than this last post) b/c this is a great thread and let's not derail it.

That's what we have off topic and politics/religion/controversery for.

Feel free to jump in over there there is a lot to discuss and you will make lots of friends over there.

And yes, the FREAKING Liberals have RUINED this great Country of ours over the course over the last 50 years! Come over to off topic politics/religion/controversery and we will point out all the reasons why the Liberals have ruined the Country.

Now I didn't say the Liberals caused this unthinkable horrific evil tragedy in Newtow, CT. That was caused by an Evil and Mentally Deranged Angry 20 year old. And of course the GROSS NEGLIGENCE of his gun owner mother, who allowed access to her weapons to her highly mentally disturbed son, who it appears she knew about his issues as latest news shows she was planning to have him committed, (and she paid the ultimate price for that) and unfortunately, so did 26 other innocent folks (including the 20 small children).

All the Gunlaws in CT did not do anything to prevent this violence, and the Killer had them in his possession illegally. Now if the school had 1 or 2 trained and armed security staff at the school, they probably would have saved many, many, countless lives. Of course there needs to be change in this Country (on several different levels) to minimize this despicable acts of violence. But with 300 million guns out there in this Country, and they are not going away anytime soon, when the bad guy whack job (who can always get his hand on one illegally), and wants to cause great bodily harm to innocent victims, then its time to fight fire with fire.

This Killer was hell bent on mass destruction, if he did not have access to guns he could have just as easily driven his pick up truck into huge crowd of kids during recess (should we outlaw pick up trucks?) The gun is a tool, the gun does not kill people, People kill people, and over the years they have used cars, baseball bats, knives, gasoline, guns, knives, rocks, fire place pokers, sticks, fire, spears, swords, explosives, dogs, crow bars, their bare hands, brass knuckles (I could go on and on) to do so.

Did you know the biggest massacre of innocent little elementary school where 38little ones lost their lives by murder, took place back in May of 1927 in Bath, Michigan, and that the evil murdered used explosives?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bath_School_disaster


Do I think anyone should be able to own a gun in America? ABSOULTEY NOT!!!!!!! There needs to be backround checks no doubt, as there are a lot of mentally unstalbe folks out there, and many criminals getting guns through the secondary market MUST STOP. And when it comes to Guns, Education and Safety is Paramount, and guns should only be in the hands of, responsible, law abiding citizens. Heck, I'm even in favor of mandatory gun training for everyone who owns one (especially if they are given CCW rights). The mother of this monsther in Newton, CT, did not excercise gun safety, and common sense, and look what happended!!! And of course we need to enforce the laws we have on the books and make the laws MUCH TUFFER, for those who commit crimes with guns. I could go on and on and on.

However, with 300 milion guns out there they will always end up in the criminals/murderers/perpetrators of domestic violence hands, and law abiding, normal, folks like ourselves, need to be able to protect ourselves, and our familys, and innocent victims like these sweet little children, if and when are lives come into contact with the criminals and murderers, and DON'T take that right away from me like the State of Illinois does, but not allowing me to carry conceal.

I'm done debating with you as i don't want to ruin Bob's great thread so this is my last post directed to you. I also don't have the time to discuss the complex issues that lead to why these domestic acts of terrorism are now becoming all the rage in the country, and why this crap will continue to happen, and why the liberals have ruined this Country from what it use to be 40/50 years ago.

Bob, sorry for slightly derailing your thread here man and I'm done debating ZR1owner here and will move on to the topic in hand I think ZR1owner should have followed his gut instinct and stayed out of these gun threads, that he admits he is inclined to avoid, for obviously good reason.

 

I found a new hobby for all of us. Who's in?

http://www.curlingchicago.org/conten...odule_id=58586

 

I'll give it a try if you will Frank but I'm really only in it for the "chicks".

 

Ill. AG reviewing concealed carry ruling

http://abclocal.go.com/wls/story?sec...rticle-8923562


Quinn Gets Go-Ahead To Close Illinois Prisons

http://chicago.cbslocal.com/2012/12/...inois-prisons/


9 reindeer and a sleigh? Try 16 Corvettes loaded with toys!
http://www.kvoa.com/news/9-reindeer-...ed-with-toys-/

 

We need to ban the carrying of open or concealed fecal socks.

http://posttrib.suntimes.com/news/17...man-feces.html

 

Oh Boy, Whoop!!!!!

 

And to think, his excuse for stinky feet was blaming his old Addis high tops!

 

When life gives you lemons, make lemonade.

When life gives you feces, make

 

No news from Illinois so...

Governor John Kasich signs Am. HB495; Ohio's concealed carry and firearms laws continue to be improved

http://www.buckeyefirearms.org/node/8697


Armed Teacher Pilot Program to Provide Free Training to Educators

http://www.buckeyefirearms.org/node/8694


Man arrested trying to 'test' school security

http://www.beloitdailynews.com/news/...9bb2963f4.html


“I don’t think legitimate sportsmen are going to say, ‘I need an assault weapon to go hunting,’” Cuomo said, according to the New York Times. “There is a balance here — I understand the rights of gun owners; I understand the rights of hunters.”

Cuomo indicated the state will likely force some kind of permit process on owners of semi-automatic “assault weapons.” In addition to generating revenue and expanding the size and reach of government, the effort will allow the state to confiscate the weapons of citizens who do not comply.

“Confiscation could be an option. Mandatory sale to the state could be an option. Permitting could be an option — keep your gun but permit it,” the governor said.

 

Area police chiefs back conceal carry

http://www.ledgersentinel.com/article.asp?a=10858



Gun Control Slowly Emerges As Defining Issue in Chicago Congressional Race

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/1...n_2344434.html