kageryu311

The only point I made was that overall you can't say that the bigger motor will always be stronger because its not true. If a motor is built stronger by design, it is the stronger motor regardless of the displacement. And to answer your questions No a 2JZ-GE won't handle 800whp safely on stock internals and the LSX will make more power Than the 2JZ motors on lower octane due to displacement, but that wasn't the point I was trying to make.

CFHay

A engine built for FI can handle boost, who would have thought that lol.

JustinStrife

Your point has some merit, but it's only in certain limited applications. If you want to make serious power, larger displacement engines will make it far easier and more reliable. For every one 4cyl engine making over a thousand horsepower, there's a dozen V8's that are making 2000-4000hp. Supras hit a brick wall with pump gas and displacement and that's a fact. You have to switch to race gas, and the majority of the serious drag racing Supras have to increase displacement to make even more power(3.4liter vs the oem 3.0liter). And even still, there are thousands of V8 cars making more than double the power of a 2jz drag car.

I've owned imports. SR20 turbos, 13b-REW's, I've run 15-20psi on those little engines. They're peaky, but very limited power band, and a real dog unless you wind the snot out of them. Something my supercharged LS1 has no trouble with.

kageryu311

I never denied displacement but a motor designed for boost and big power will handle power better than an all aluminum block.

JustinStrife

It's not the aluminum block that's the problem. The problem is most N/A motors were designed for N/A power, not Boosted power. If GM, Ford, Chrysler, or whoever, decided to build a boosted V8 that would make mega power, they would do it and crush those smaller engines. It's all in what their goals are.

kageryu311

Aluminum blocks are part of it. Obviously they do that to save weight. Then its the compression ratio. ANd Ford made a boosted V8 but it doesn't "crush" smaller engines.

crwtrans

There's so much info that is wrong in your post it's unbelievable! First of all, there are plenty of cars that are aluminum that handle boost well.

K20(RSX)
F20C(S2K)
SR20
M3
etc....

Each one of these motors have produced 500rwhp on stock internals and the F20C close to 700rwhp!

I'm going to dissect more of your post later on.

JustinStrife

English must not be your first language. Or you can't read. I didn't say aluminum engines were through problem. My aluminum LS1 has been making over 500hp with boost for the past 3 1/2 years. I've also owned an Sr20 powered Nissan so I know what they are capable of. You must have meant to quote the guy I was quoting and not me.

NytmereZ

How do I know?, I own a Viper, know what they sound like with turbos, sc's and when spray is shot.
I would hope a GTR with a 300 hp advantage win win that race.
Regardless I could care less fast cars are fast cars.
Also true drag racing is done at a track from a dead stop, its funny how I dont see many imports at the strip.
Lastly the GTR did not impress me when it came out, doesnt now, and regardless of how many mods, will never. I give big props to the guys who got into the 9 in the modified GTR's, but one thing is certain, those cars do have weak trans's, the guys who havent broke yet are on borrowed time.
This applys to all cars, racing is not a poor mans game, the more power you have , the more things are going to break, that is just the name of the game.
I'm also sick of the pump gas debate, none of my cars use anything but 93 octane, I know i could get a tom more power on racing gas, or better yet meth, but I like to have a car that has all the power I want using regular gas.
Hell I wish I could build a motor, N/a that could make 1000rwhp, and use regular gas, but I like driving my cars, not trailering them.

NytmereZ

Roll racing?, dont think that is a sport, you are obviously a Import fan boy, as you name cars I have never heard of, count roll racing as racing, and try to defend cars that werent even made for performance, with the exception of the GTR and the late Toyota supra.
I'm also not going to hold my breath as to my question about what lift do the M3 heads flow higher than the LS heads, with your "claimed testing" that should of been a no brainer.
I wont even get into the argument of the science of HP and Tq, because you obviously dont know what you are talking about as Tq is what makes your car move, and HP keeps it moving(im keeping it simple for you)
As I said before I am a fan of all fast cars, but when it comes to performance I admidt that I am partial to American cars.
1. Because I support my country
2. Because our american sports car such as the Vette, Viper, and now Mustang are kicking the crap out pretty much everything thrown at them, this is not my opinion, this is just fact.

Its funny though when it comes to motorcycles, its the complete opposite, dont know why they could never get it right with cars, butt they own performance in liter bikes, I think they should just stick to that

Im done, have fun playing with imports, I'll stick with my american muscle.

NytmereZ

Dissect him? just stop now, do some more "flow testing" on heads, you do know there are some people one here that work with pro racing teams, building motors for the street as well as for world champions, hundreds of head cam combo's, head porting flowing, etc.
Also who gives a crap about honda 2000's those things have less Tq than a stock Viper at idle fact not opinion.
Also I have personally seen 20 year old 5.0 mustangs make 500rwhp on the stock short block, which BTW many had well over 100k miles on them.
Stock ZR1's, and Vipers are both well over that, and Ive personaly seen stock bottom end Vipers make 4 digit numbers(mine included) on 100% stock bottom ends.
Regular heads and cam vettes easily make over 500rwhp as well, LS7 vettes come close to that with exhaust and tune, you point is mute.
The real point that comes into factor is durability, if you dont have forged internals, it is only a matter of time before something goes Boom, Ive seen this, and Ive personally done this.
Give it up you out smarted, out gunned and will never win this disscusion.
still waiting for you responce to at what lift an M3(yuppie mobile) out flows an LS1 head, be very careful when answering, you might get "dissected" , chopped and used for chum, this shark is already in the water, to help you out.... valve size's(intake and exhaust) rocker ratios, cam spring rate's and about 30 other things offf the top of my head, that would indeed cause parastatic loss, intake, manifold, hell even the thicknes of the head studs come into play with the ability of a head to flow a certain amount of volume.
Tap out your statement about an m3 head outflowing an LS1 head with your so called study has way to many variables, and basically told me off the bat that you are just some import fan boy trying to act smart to prove a point(the inferior always try to do this)
like i said, just stop, ive already busted you as instead of aswering my question , you went and googled the late LT5's info, you cant google your way out of what Ive asked you.
So just give up

NytmereZ

[QUOTE=crwtrans;

Should I continue?[/QUOTE]

NO PLEASE STOP, arent you getting sick and tired of google

kageryu311

The cars don't have that weak of a trans. You know nothing about the car. All you are basing your assumptions off of are stories, not pure facts. There are plently of people with bone stock transmissions driving their cars hard daily and tracking them, go on NAGTROC, but oh I'm sorry you aren't into imports lol. And how are you assuming that the Viper in the vid is stock. You weren't there, you didn't see the dyno so all you are doing is making assumptions.

NytmereZ

sorry I have raced actualy humilated a guy with his girlfriend in the passenger seat this is why I let her take the pictures she wanted of my car, as I pulled over ) ,driven and know enough about that car, Ive also seen 5 of these cars that had blown the trans, at the shop 1 car didnt even get a full pass.
My tires guy has an 11.0 evo, but its broke most of the year
What makes me not like imports is people who worship these cars, and think the laws of psychics, do not apply to them
To say the GTR's dont have weak trannys, is to say there was never a problem with the rocker arms in many LS7 corvettes
As far as the Viper in that Video, I have ears, the is no kind of FI on that car, you dont even have to own a Viper to know that, its funny how many videos are on youtube with some Guy in a 200hp Vtech huhe wing add 300 hp non painted hoopd with pins add another 100, and the fart can ohh boy, thats the killer (actually its a power killier)beating an 800hp corvette, when in realitythe corvette is stock , not even looking over at the ricer, and abviously isnt even racing.

Then there are the ricer tuner shops who pat people in Viper, Z06's etc, to try and promote their product
Please spare ne with your dyno crap, a dyno is just a measing tool used by real racers, used when a Mod is done, people who put to much stock in Dyno numbers, are the ones who are dissapointed, when they get their buy kicked at the strip by a car that dynoed much less power.
You are starting to sound like the "head flow tester", you have to stop as well

You want to go fast in an import, buy a busa,

kageryu311

Seriously guy, you are all over the place with your reply.

GT-R Transmissions aren't as weak as you think. Many of the companies doing aftermarket for these cars are seeing this as well as many on NAGTROC are.

As for ricers, they exist but they are just as bad as any fanboy or brand loyalist. Just because some idiot in a honda posted a video of a ricer flyby doesn't mean that there aren't serious import guys out there. And serious import guys know that there is no replacement for displacement but don't care and know that their cars are fast and built right.

And as far as the dyno thing, I agree that it doesn't apply on the drag strip but it applies quite a bit from a roll race as it focuses more on the car's capability than the driver.

NytmereZ

Wow I was half alseep when I wrote that, but regardless again with the roll race only ricers like to roll race, again no dyno is the same, operated, the same, there are many ways to trick a dyno etc.... still doent mean crap, the trans in my Viper is still stock, you wanna talk strong trans, put 1000hp on a stock GTR trans a see what happens.
I dont know why you argue so much when its obvious you know so little, I''m getting the feeling I', taling to a 16 year old, also what happened to the guy who "flow tested LS1 and M3 heads, I ask him a few simple questions, and poof!!! he gone, you cant google the questions I asked
I never said that that fast imports dont exist, they do, but are just not the platform of choice of somebody who , wants to make a ton of power without having virtually reinfornce and change every component in the car.
Imports have their place, against cars that start out with equal standings.
When mods come in to play, its just not cost effective, to people who want to be competetive.
Take a look at another Topic in this sectiom wher a GTR gets into the 9's, very impressive as the faster you get the harder it is to get the time.
Then look underneath it at the 8 second mustang, The mustang has probably 20 grand in the motor the GTR probably 70-80, its a no brainer, not to mention the GTR has been out for a few years, mustang 6 months.
I dont even know why people are still talking about the GTR, its old news, it was so hyped by Import people and the rags, it was like the second coming a christ, then they hit the streets, and were getting demolished, no contest to any of the cars it was supposed to run with.
I'm done talking about it, but I did enjoy demolishing the hype, but that time is over, there are more exciting things now, like the new mustang, or the upcoming Z28 camaro etc...
Just like the Supra,which I liked due to it builitproff bottom end, and the crazy power they could make, but even though there were truley some fast ones out there, most were dyno queens.
Obviously nobody expect the few diehards left could care less about supra's, same is for the GTR now.
Regarless of how fast people make them go, that can be done with virtually any car, for allot less money.
I'm done feeding this little flame, I just thank god the days of Fast and furious cars are pretty much over(hell even the new Fast & Furious had more american cars, I guess they wanted more realism
You wanna go fast right out of the show room in an import buy a liter bike, you want a nice lawmower that will last forever, cheap I gotta go with my Honda, you wanna mod a car and go fast buy American

Dominic Toretto

What I don't get is why the GTR is compared to the ZR1. It is clearly outmatched, wouldn't it be better compared against the ZO6?

-Alex

motogib1

Thats a fact. I've seen a few imports come out with stickers all over them exuding bad attitude and running high 12s while also acting like jerks. The fastest import I've seen was a heavily modded WRX STI that ran an 11.15. Had nitrous crap all over the engine bay but the guy said he wasn't using the nitrous. The WRX guy was pretty cool. I also saw an RX-7 running 11.5s and while spinning all the way down the track. Turns out he had a supercharged LS1 transplanted into the car. I've seen many Evos running low 12s. Still outgunned by Detroit iron. Take a dedicated drag racer, add some drag radials and it will not take that much to get into the 9s. Don't know about the GTR. ZR1 stock is traction limited. The stock ZR1 has a huge power to weight advantage over the GTR. Puts some DRs on an otherwise stock ZR1 and it will smoke the stock GTR. Lingenfelter built a 9 sec ZR1 with bolt-ons, not sure of the cost.

motogib1

Car had the transmission upgraded and was on race gas. The ZR1 did it with bolt-ons and pump gas. No transmission upgrade necessary.

JustinStrife

Fact, small displacement engines NEED race gas to make huge power. Big displacement engines don't. Fact, small engines have to rev to 8, 9, 10k rpms to make huge power. Again, big displacement engines don't. Also fact, small displacement engines making huge power don't make any better gas mileage than big engines. How many imports making 600+ hp can claim 30+ mpg on the freeway, and on pump gas? :