Bose discussion
Le Mans Master
Joined: Aug 1999
Posts: 5,515
Likes: 646
From: Silicon Valley and Yosemite, CA
When music is recorded and the original sound is in the DIRECT CENTER of the stage but you use two microphones to record, one on each side, the sound is reproduced out of TWO stereo speakers, one to the left and one to the right. Now you have two ears hearing the sound from EACH left and right speaker, isn't there speaker crosstalk to one ear to the other and the brain is trying to unscramble this ALTERED and incorrect sound reproduction. It would be interesting to hear your thoughts on this. I am just raising the issue and I'm NOT going to debate it, let's hear your ideas on this subject (ONE ORIGINAL sound source generated and TWO SOUND OUTPUTS reproduced by the two stereo speakers - left and right).
Listen to I'm A Man by Chicago The Band on vinyl, and let me know what you hear... Yes it is a test, and a simple one, if you understand what you are listening to.
If you can convert vinyl to wav, or worse MP3 you can come pretty close to what I am looking for. Copy the CD version to MP3 and it is a bit more difficult to distinguish.I have another Chicago The Band Live in Concert(Chicago 26) tune with a flute solo. The flutist moves around the stage in concert, you can hear that happening with my system, I did not get that with my straight Bose.
I suspect based on your post you have the same feeling about rear speakers as I do about CD/MP3's versus vinyl
FYI, the rears in both my C5 and C6 are disconnected.
Thread Starter
Racer
Joined: Nov 2008
Posts: 335
Likes: 0
From: southern Ct
Since all intelligent discussion seems to be out the window for the most part, I will invite all the "poser audiophiles" that have something to say about me liking the Bose enough to keep it to the local track nest week once my blower is installed and see how much your "audiophile grade" system helps you down the quarter. Sorry to get juvenile, but i started this thread for intelligent discussion and it seems that 90% of the posts have just been people blasting each other, so why not join in
Melting Slicks
Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 2,678
Likes: 1
And my Dad can beat up your Dad 
Well I will invite you to jump in my "audiophile" ride around the race track or autocross course and see how your 1/4 mile time works for ya
As Grz mentioned, a properly setup system will display musician locations correctly across a theoretical "soundstage", just like a concert. Vocalist generally in the center, drummer located middle back, other musicians left and right of center (and if set up correctly, at different depths). With well recorded music, like from Chesky or Sheffield Labs, you can run tracks to test these locations and your overall system playback capability.
Within the confines of a car, this generally means VERY custom speaker locations, or TONS of electronic signal manipulation to equalize pathlengths and arrival times from the various speakers to the left side driver listening position. A blend of the two options for 99% of people who care works well. The more you manipulate the signal, the tougher it is to get it to sound "natural" and accurate.
This is why you put your home speakers while listening to 2 channel stereo or 2.1 in a centered location (equal distance from back wall, and from each other) with equal distances from the Left and Right channels to the listener. You are attempting to create the illusion of one point source for the sound, effectively blending the 2 speakers into one. The car "audiophile" is attempting to do the same thing, while still dealing with reflective surfaces and a biased seating position, and easily blocked speaker locations.
I can assure you that no "sound engineer" decided that a lower door speaker location was best, the rest of the engineers decided that is where they were going to leave room for the speaker
I can also assure you that if you had posted this thread in this section originally it would have turned out entirely differently.
I always get a kick out of people who jump into posts on the internet, attempt to pick apart opposing view points, fail miserably in the face of fact and greater knowledge on said topic, and resort to school ground name calling and sarcasm. Really you win cool guy!
Fej
Well I will invite you to jump in my "audiophile" ride around the race track or autocross course and see how your 1/4 mile time works for ya
As Grz mentioned, a properly setup system will display musician locations correctly across a theoretical "soundstage", just like a concert. Vocalist generally in the center, drummer located middle back, other musicians left and right of center (and if set up correctly, at different depths). With well recorded music, like from Chesky or Sheffield Labs, you can run tracks to test these locations and your overall system playback capability.
Within the confines of a car, this generally means VERY custom speaker locations, or TONS of electronic signal manipulation to equalize pathlengths and arrival times from the various speakers to the left side driver listening position. A blend of the two options for 99% of people who care works well. The more you manipulate the signal, the tougher it is to get it to sound "natural" and accurate.
This is why you put your home speakers while listening to 2 channel stereo or 2.1 in a centered location (equal distance from back wall, and from each other) with equal distances from the Left and Right channels to the listener. You are attempting to create the illusion of one point source for the sound, effectively blending the 2 speakers into one. The car "audiophile" is attempting to do the same thing, while still dealing with reflective surfaces and a biased seating position, and easily blocked speaker locations.
I can assure you that no "sound engineer" decided that a lower door speaker location was best, the rest of the engineers decided that is where they were going to leave room for the speaker
I can also assure you that if you had posted this thread in this section originally it would have turned out entirely differently.
I always get a kick out of people who jump into posts on the internet, attempt to pick apart opposing view points, fail miserably in the face of fact and greater knowledge on said topic, and resort to school ground name calling and sarcasm. Really you win cool guy!
Fej
You keep getting beat down made a fool of and you continue to come back for more. And on top of it your responses become even more sarcastic and juvenile.
Just let it go and leave with some dignity.
Le Mans Master
Joined: Mar 2009
Posts: 5,464
Likes: 1
From: Chicago
Some have taken my words and twisted them. Others may of misinterpreted them. If that is the case I'm sorry. One guy is way bent out of shape and continues to attack. Again I'm sorry.
My point was to the Bose system is decent and adequate. However, it is not the best. The guys that come on a thread like this and blast it often believe they are true car audiophiles. There is a problem with that. There is no such thing. A car is not a place for true sound.
Those that bash the Bose often do so to make their investment somehow more legit.
A better system is possible and obtainable. However, to make a blanket statement to someone that enjoys their tunes with the Bose does not know what true sound is or has no reference to a better sound is only fooling themselves.
The poser comment was only directed to those that knock another system because they want to legitimize their own system. If anyone took offense I'm sorry. Again no need to come on here and prove that you are a car audiophile. It is pointless. Let other's enjoy the Bose system as they may of had to work harder then you to obtain it.
Again there are better/more expensive systems and because you want or have one does not make you a "poser". However, when you have a better/more expensive system and choose to degrade others that have another system you may very well be a "poser".
My point was to the Bose system is decent and adequate. However, it is not the best. The guys that come on a thread like this and blast it often believe they are true car audiophiles. There is a problem with that. There is no such thing. A car is not a place for true sound.
Those that bash the Bose often do so to make their investment somehow more legit.
A better system is possible and obtainable. However, to make a blanket statement to someone that enjoys their tunes with the Bose does not know what true sound is or has no reference to a better sound is only fooling themselves.
The poser comment was only directed to those that knock another system because they want to legitimize their own system. If anyone took offense I'm sorry. Again no need to come on here and prove that you are a car audiophile. It is pointless. Let other's enjoy the Bose system as they may of had to work harder then you to obtain it.
Again there are better/more expensive systems and because you want or have one does not make you a "poser". However, when you have a better/more expensive system and choose to degrade others that have another system you may very well be a "poser".
Last edited by Vette Suspension; Aug 25, 2009 at 06:09 PM.
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Le Mans Master
Joined: Mar 2009
Posts: 5,464
Likes: 1
From: Chicago
Forget it, you can lead a horse to water, you can beat them in the face, throw dirt in their mouth, kick them in the ***, but you can't force them to drink.
Vette Suspension, I hear what you are saying, I just think that I have become the poster of all things negative on the bose system in your mind, and that is just not the case. You can do worse, but you can also do 10x better. Not once did I say "it sucks", but I have many times said you can do better, and supported this with fact.
Never say never, you are an example of the horse I spoke of above. The only beat down that took place was against your lack of knowledge, and once presented with opposing FACT, you dropped back into 5th grade insults to protect your "internet" ego, member since January this year with 1590 posts, jackass of all things, master of none.
Wonder what I can say to get this thread locked to make it go away.
Vette Suspension, I hear what you are saying, I just think that I have become the poster of all things negative on the bose system in your mind, and that is just not the case. You can do worse, but you can also do 10x better. Not once did I say "it sucks", but I have many times said you can do better, and supported this with fact.
Never say never, you are an example of the horse I spoke of above. The only beat down that took place was against your lack of knowledge, and once presented with opposing FACT, you dropped back into 5th grade insults to protect your "internet" ego, member since January this year with 1590 posts, jackass of all things, master of none.
Wonder what I can say to get this thread locked to make it go away.
I was not calling you out about saying the Bose system sucks. Others have said it though. My point is a lot of guys like the system and have worked hard to obtain the car of their dreams. For someone to come along and say the system they paid good money for sucks is wrong. Even more so on a phony premise of being a car audiophile.
If I somehow offended you I appologize. I'm sure somewhere down the road we will agree and come to a understanding.
