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Loaded Kick Panels

 
Old 01-20-2009, 01:02 PM
  #21  
Durango_Boy
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Originally Posted by FRSTR90 View Post
Do you have any pics of what you cut? I would love to go with 6.5s up front in the kicks, but I wouldn't really want to cut on the birdcage.. Right now I got some 4" bostons tucked behind the kicks, and it just straight up sounds like ****. I wasn't expecting much out of these speakers, but i must say they were the biggest waste of money. So, if you wouldn't mind, could you recommend me some decent 6.5s that would not require cutting. Also, if you have pics of the what you cut, could you give me the model of speakers you have in your car (I'm assuming that your happy with them)?

Yes, I am extremely happy with my speakers, but you also have to have the power to run them. I run Cadence CWM-6KIT components.

http://www.cadencestore.com/ProductC...&idproduct=194

They handle 100 watts RMS per channel, so they must be amped. Running them off of a head unit is just not going to sound good.

The Polk DB651s I like to suggest are rated to handle 50 watts RMS per channel, which puts them in the range of sounding good off of just a head unit. They sound better off of an amp but not everyone can do that. As mentioned, the Polk speakers will fit with no modifications, and most everyone that has ever installed them has been very happy.

Here are some pics of the trimming. I used a grinder, and I didn't take my time so the cuts were rough and uneven. I later evened everything out and made it all pretty.

Once side has a large lip, the other has a small lip. Trim the large lip, and fold the small lip over...I used a hammer.



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Old 01-20-2009, 02:16 PM
  #22  
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what if you removed the astro vent flap and sealed it shut so water couldnt get in. couldnt you put a much larger speaker in that spot and not worry about modifying the birdcage at all?
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Old 01-20-2009, 02:26 PM
  #23  
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Originally Posted by another-user View Post
what if you removed the astro vent flap and sealed it shut so water couldnt get in. couldnt you put a much larger speaker in that spot and not worry about modifying the birdcage at all?

I suppose it would be possible but the speaker would no longer be aiming at the passengers. You'd lose a lot of sound quality with it mounted there no matter how big of a speaker you chose.
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Old 01-20-2009, 02:39 PM
  #24  
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Front speakers belong in the kickpanel, not the dash.



Should anyone care, This is how I did it for cheap and I didn't have to cut any metal in the car.
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Old 01-20-2009, 06:02 PM
  #25  
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OK,
It seems the DB651s speakers will fit without cutting the birdcage. But will a KHE-300 (50W x 4) head unit drive them? Along with two Pioneer 4 x 6" speakers up top.

These are the four installed speakers at the moment. BTW, the 150W units are in the kick panels. Probably a mistake to install them there with such a high wattage rating although the Polks seem to take roughly the same power. So a little confusion on my part at the moment. I do have a spare set of kick panels to experiment with.


Last edited by Paul L; 01-20-2009 at 06:43 PM.
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Old 01-20-2009, 06:46 PM
  #26  
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Originally Posted by paul 74 View Post
OK,
It seems the DB651s speakers will fit without cutting the birdcage. But will a KHE-300 (50W x 4) head unit drive them? Along with two Pioneer 4 x 6" speakers up top.

These are the four installed speakers at the moment. BTW, the 150W units are in the kick panels. Probably a mistake to install them there with such a high wattage rating.

Will these speakers fit behind the kick panels? The P.O. of my Vette had one of those speaker bars installed in the back and was told by his stereo guy that the head unit couldn't drive both the kick panel speakers and the rear speaker bar without an amp. No place to put an amp in a 69 Coupe that competes in stock class, so he just had them wire in the rear speakers. You can't even hear the stereo at highway speeds. That's partly because the head unit is crap, but it also involves the speaker location. I'm looking for speakers to go behind the kick panels to restore the car's stock arrangement and I'll replace the head unit with one of the "stock like" two **** units from Corvette Central. I have a 69 Mustang convertible in which I have just door speakers installed along with a Kenwood head unit and you can hear that even at highway speeds with the top down.
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Old 01-20-2009, 06:55 PM
  #27  
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Yes, they fit very nicely.



But at 4 x 6" lack a little bass.


Last edited by Paul L; 01-20-2009 at 06:58 PM.
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Old 01-21-2009, 03:29 AM
  #28  
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Originally Posted by Durango_Boy View Post
Yes, I am extremely happy with my speakers, but you also have to have the power to run them. I run Cadence CWM-6KIT components.

http://www.cadencestore.com/ProductC...&idproduct=194

They handle 100 watts RMS per channel, so they must be amped. Running them off of a head unit is just not going to sound good.

The Polk DB651s I like to suggest are rated to handle 50 watts RMS per channel, which puts them in the range of sounding good off of just a head unit. They sound better off of an amp but not everyone can do that. As mentioned, the Polk speakers will fit with no modifications, and most everyone that has ever installed them has been very happy.

Here are some pics of the trimming. I used a grinder, and I didn't take my time so the cuts were rough and uneven. I later evened everything out and made it all pretty.

Once side has a large lip, the other has a small lip. Trim the large lip, and fold the small lip over...I used a hammer.



That would be fine.. I'm kind of leaning towards making the cuts. I definitely need to run an amp anyways.. I had a pair of RF 6X9's in the rear which sounded ok, but I think the needed to be amped to get the full potential out of them. Would it be cool, if I shoot you a few PM's later on telling you what I've got and seeing what you would recommend?? I am just plain ignorant when it comes to car audio..
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Old 01-21-2009, 09:44 AM
  #29  
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Originally Posted by FRSTR90 View Post
That would be fine.. I'm kind of leaning towards making the cuts. I definitely need to run an amp anyways.. I had a pair of RF 6X9's in the rear which sounded ok, but I think the needed to be amped to get the full potential out of them. Would it be cool, if I shoot you a few PM's later on telling you what I've got and seeing what you would recommend?? I am just plain ignorant when it comes to car audio..

Yeah sure I will be happy to help. I have installed more than a few stereos in C3s and while tricky, it's easier than it sounds.

Paul, here's the breakdown. The Polk speakers are suggested because they both, fit without cutting, and because their low handling allows them to be played from a head unit without an amp and still sound pretty good.

The amp is the best solution. However, if all you have is the head unit, it will power the speakers.

I would also urge you to try kick panels with 6.5" speakers, powered by the head unit, with the dash 4x6" speakers UNHOOKED.

The reason I say this is because it should sound better with JUST kick panel speakers over both sets. The dash set will actually detract from the overall effect of the kick panel speakers, making them less effective.

Then you can connect the dash speakers again and see which you like better.
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Old 01-21-2009, 12:34 PM
  #30  
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Hers how I did my Polks. Pic is of backside. The speakers came with a plastic adapter rings which I glued to the backside. Which gave me a nice round hole for me to run my dremel tool against.
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Old 01-21-2009, 04:04 PM
  #31  
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Originally Posted by Durango_Boy View Post
Yeah sure I will be happy to help. I have installed more than a few stereos in C3s and while tricky, it's easier than it sounds.

Paul, here's the breakdown. The Polk speakers are suggested because they both, fit without cutting, and because their low handling allows them to be played from a head unit without an amp and still sound pretty good.

The amp is the best solution. However, if all you have is the head unit, it will power the speakers.

I would also urge you to try kick panels with 6.5" speakers, powered by the head unit, with the dash 4x6" speakers UNHOOKED.

The reason I say this is because it should sound better with JUST kick panel speakers over both sets. The dash set will actually detract from the overall effect of the kick panel speakers, making them less effective.

Then you can connect the dash speakers again and see which you like better.
I have ordered a pair from Crutchfield here in Canada. Reasonable price and free shipping, not to mention no duty, UPS/FedEx brokerage fees, etc. when dealing across the border. Nice deal.

I guess the theory is that directing that (supposed) 200W produced by the KHE-300 head from four 4 x 6" speakers instead to two 6.5" will allow the available power to more efficiently drive those two larger rather than the four smaller. So going from 2 x 100W combined with 2 x 150W to just 2 x 165W, a 170W difference in power draw from the head. That seems to make sense. And I would expect with the larger speakers there will be somewhat better bass.

I would imagine also that sound positioning/deflection (e.g. windshield) plays a part in the overall acoustics although I do wonder if the sound that far down can penetrate the cabin effectively. We shall see. But Corvette in 1968 only had the bottom speakers so perhaps the GM engineers were on to something.

Another little experiment for the spring. I have spare kick panels to dye in Oxblood and cut. I really don't look forward to pulling that upper dash pad again to disconnect the wires to those upper speakers but....

Stevekk, nice pics. Thanks.

http://www.crutchfieldcanada.com/Pro...0CF&click=1481

Last edited by Paul L; 01-21-2009 at 05:41 PM.
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Old 01-21-2009, 05:56 PM
  #32  
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DB did these for me!

I has an orgasm when I saw the pics!

These top of the line JBL speakers paired with my alpine 4x6 speakers and a new rock fosgate 400 4 channel should be great!



Originally Posted by Durango_Boy View Post
A friend and forum member needed a little help loading their new kick panels with new speakers for a modern stereo system. I offered to do the work, so he shipped me the kick panels, speakers, and some sound deadener. The Dynamat they sent was in horrible shape...ripped and creased...I was NOT going to use it. I replaced it with some Damplifier that I had on hand, and completed the set of kick panels. These pics were taken before boxing them up, and they are going out tomorrow.

I'm just posting these an example so it's seen from front to back and people can see how different speakers can look in the kick panels.


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Old 01-21-2009, 06:28 PM
  #33  
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Originally Posted by stevekk View Post


Hers how I did my Polks. Pic is of backside. The speakers came with a plastic adapter rings which I glued to the backside. Which gave me a nice round hole for me to run my dremel tool against.
Steve et al.,

The Polk units will be here in days. Any hints before I cut these panels? What glue did you use for that reinforcement ring? Did it come with the speakers? What is the purpose of that tinfoil backed matting (Dynamat/Damplifier)?


Last edited by Paul L; 01-21-2009 at 08:03 PM.
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Old 01-22-2009, 08:20 AM
  #34  
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I'm really enjoying this thread... something I think many of us have thought about. Are any of you putting speakers in the rear of the car, or just kick panels, or both dash and kick panels?
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Old 01-22-2009, 09:06 AM
  #35  
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Paul 74. I used regular plastic cement from Walmart at 99 cents a tube. I was very liberal with the cement and used c clamps to hold in place. I used saber saw with a fine blade to cut out rough hole. Then I took my dremel tool to finish the hole, using the plastic ring as a guide. Turned out real good... nice and ridged.
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Old 01-22-2009, 09:10 AM
  #36  
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Originally Posted by stevekk View Post
Paul 74. I used regular plastic cement from Walmart at 99 cents a tube. I was very liberal with the cement and used c clamps to hold in place. I used saber saw with a fine blade to cut out rough hole. Then I took my dremel tool to finish the hole, using the plastic ring as a guide. Turned out real good... nice and ridged.
Thanks! Something to keep me busy in the basement as the coldest month of the year approaches.

Two of the ring tabs are protruding into the large and small panel notches. I can't recall the purpose of those notches!! Is there an interference problem - tabs to something else? Do you have a pic of the installed units? From the pics it seem that lethalassault has the speakers positioned somewhat lower. This may be much ado about nothing but I would appreciate comments.

Last edited by Paul L; 01-22-2009 at 10:34 AM.
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Old 01-22-2009, 09:18 AM
  #37  
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Originally Posted by Vette7587 View Post
I'm really enjoying this thread... something I think many of us have thought about. Are any of you putting speakers in the rear of the car, or just kick panels, or both dash and kick panels?
It can be done a number of ways. For those on a budget, here is what I did with my former 1967.

The head is a KHE-200 (50W x 4) with an IPod/AUX connection at the back. It is actually a cassette unit but that was never used. The 1967 has only one dash speaker so to get a semblance of two channels up front I used a Kenwood dual-cone unit. The IPod is an early Shuffle that held 125 tunes.



In the back I bought basic-black enclosures from FutureShop, dyed them, and installed Pioneer 6 x 9s. They are held in place - back and bottom - by industrial strength velcro. It worked very well but as DB often says, they would benefit from the boost of an amplifier. I never got around to that before I sold the car.


Last edited by Paul L; 01-22-2009 at 09:21 AM.
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Old 01-22-2009, 09:38 AM
  #38  
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Paul, that foil backing is a sound deadener. It serves two purposes on the kick panels. First, it lends weight and 'mass' so that the vibrations form the speaker will not be heard in the reverberations of the plastic kick panel. The heavy mat just absorbs the vibrations and dissipates the energy in the form of heat...very small amounts. Not noticeable. The other main reason is the vent holes. See, the back of the speaker cone is going to produce sound waves just like the front of the speaker. When the two meet, and they always do, they cancel each other out and ruin sound quality. Called cancellation. All those tiny holes and perforations allow sound waves from the back to reach the front more quickly. This means that the more stuff you can put in the way to separate the back from the front will help with sound quality by keeping the back waves from the front.

Rear speakers: I personally do not advocate the use of rear speakers simply because the stage your brain wants to hear is best set with front speakers. It's how the music is recorded in L and R channels, and how our brain perceives the sound. I mean, you wouldn't go to a concert and sit backwards would you? Your brain sharing a front and rear stage just detracts from the overall experience and sound quality. I have done both, many times, and I can honestly say that front only is better to my ears.

Now, there is an exception. In the case of an SUV. You have 4 doors and a large cargo area behind the rear seats. In this case I would use speakers in the rear doors, just like the front doors, and sub/s in the rear. This is simply because the rear doors aren't the rear of the cabin.

In a C3, where the cabin is very small, front speakers if done right will be just about the best option for good sound. Not only is it easier to mount 2 speakers than it is to mount 4 speakers, but it is cheaper, and you don't need a 4 channel amp if using one.

So to recap, it's easier to have fronts only, it's cheaper, and in my experience and most of the SQ car audio world, it's better for overall sound quality as it's perceived by the listener.
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Old 01-22-2009, 10:36 AM
  #39  
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Interesting! FutureShop has a small Dynamat kit for door speakers. I'll pick one up today.
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Old 01-22-2009, 10:52 AM
  #40  
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Originally Posted by Durango_Boy View Post
Paul, that foil backing is a sound deadener. It serves two purposes on the kick panels. First, it lends weight and 'mass' so that the vibrations form the speaker will not be heard in the reverberations of the plastic kick panel. The heavy mat just absorbs the vibrations and dissipates the energy in the form of heat...very small amounts. Not noticeable. The other main reason is the vent holes. See, the back of the speaker cone is going to produce sound waves just like the front of the speaker. When the two meet, and they always do, they cancel each other out and ruin sound quality. Called cancellation. All those tiny holes and perforations allow sound waves from the back to reach the front more quickly. This means that the more stuff you can put in the way to separate the back from the front will help with sound quality by keeping the back waves from the front.

Rear speakers: I personally do not advocate the use of rear speakers simply because the stage your brain wants to hear is best set with front speakers. It's how the music is recorded in L and R channels, and how our brain perceives the sound. I mean, you wouldn't go to a concert and sit backwards would you? Your brain sharing a front and rear stage just detracts from the overall experience and sound quality. I have done both, many times, and I can honestly say that front only is better to my ears.

Now, there is an exception. In the case of an SUV. You have 4 doors and a large cargo area behind the rear seats. In this case I would use speakers in the rear doors, just like the front doors, and sub/s in the rear. This is simply because the rear doors aren't the rear of the cabin.

In a C3, where the cabin is very small, front speakers if done right will be just about the best option for good sound. Not only is it easier to mount 2 speakers than it is to mount 4 speakers, but it is cheaper, and you don't need a 4 channel amp if using one.

So to recap, it's easier to have fronts only, it's cheaper, and in my experience and most of the SQ car audio world, it's better for overall sound quality as it's perceived by the listener.
What do you suggest for highs? For my car I'm thinking the 6.5" kick panel speakers and a single 10" sub, and I was going to use the dash for the highs.
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