Hear! Hear!

 

TL;DR

There are no facts one way or the other beyond what was written in the ad or visible in the pics. We do have an enthusiastic person with money burning a hole in his pocket. In this case he got excited because of the words 'frame off restore'. Putting aside semantics, we've all seen as many definitions of that as 'all original' or 'number matching'.

Proceeding with caution whenever these buzzwords come out cannot be over emphasized.

As stated much further above

"The picture and description doesn't indicate restored either- only a bunch of modifications.

Might be good, might be bad."

 

I would be glad to post pics of my "next prospect"....however, the guy that posted the car has taken it off of Craig's & I didn't "save" any pics, as I assumed he'd leave it on Craig's......SO....I am going to look at it this coming Wed, Jan. 21st, and giving it a good thorough inspection...taking a LOT of advice from the pro's here, including the birdcage, top of rear frame above wheels where you can't see, but going by feel. Gonna REALLY determine if it in fact does have 38k "original" miles on it....It's a '79 L82 (got the vin & it checks out) black/black 4 spd. He's askin' $9500 (sounds pretty firm) down from $11,900, and says it's in "excellent" condition...I hope he's right, but I'm going in on a totally SKEPTICAL outlook.....I'll letcha all know how it comes out....and I WILL post a lot of pics of it...speshly if I drag it home! He says the heater is inop due to needing a new heater core installed that he has....and he hasn't driven it much at all the last 2 yrs. due to working so much....I told him I GOTTA take it for a road check....and haven't told him I want the kick panels removed for the birdcage check. Car is in Saginaw, Mi., about 140 miles n.e. of me....I'm not against just turnin' my back & walkin' away if it doesn't "feel right"
Later.....and THX again!!

 

I bought my 1979 with 36,000 on it. I knew where it was for the past 30 years as I got it from my best friends sister-in-law. It was stored in the garage of a bi-level home so it got air every day. I did check the frame there was no flaky rust, I assumed the bird cage is ok. With that being said they are 30 plus year old cars and time has a way of deteriorating things. I have had to do a brake job (updated calipers, drilled and vented rotors), tune-up (not stock ignition parts), haven't got the horn to work yet, preservation of the frame and cleanup, polished the wheels as the coating was coming off (painted the slots).
Needs steering valve and cylinder rebuild, seals go bad after setting then being driven. Radiator needs replaced (Dewitt's coming), new hoses. rebuild water pump? I pick my battles wisely fix what I can and hire the rest done. I love my C3 but keep in mind they need work even the low mile cars. The battle over restored or restomod, If mine runs, stops and looks good the average public still thinks it's a great neat car. If you want a trophy make it all original. I'll drive mine and enjoy the Cruise-ins. I'm just thinkin' on paper

 

While at first I thought you were still just wanting to base critiquing on Assumption, speculation and biases and that isn't without it's merits due to the knowledge you have on these cars and what is "likely" but likely isn't cut in stone fact and I was most please to read your last line...
"Might be good, might be bad." isn't that the truth of it all, you seem to want to lean to "bad" and I want to lean to the middle saying lets get more info before we praise or trash it,
So you and I are not that far apart just get there differently....

 

Wrong. The description clearly says frame off restoration. Repeating a lie won't make it true.

 

Okay, so you are saying from the pictures no one has the ability to know for fact that the car has not seen a frame off restoration or are you saying the seller is full of BS?

I am not going to ever lean to the bad or negative until I have the facts but we simply cant keep the next fellow from basing his opinions on Assumption, speculation and biases.

Do you see why some sellers get such a case of ***?

 

Sorry, my post was confusing. I was addressing Mike when I said "repeating a lie won't make it true".
It was a lie for Mike to claim the situation was "as stated much further above", the ad most certainly did say "frame off restored".

Check the ad
As I posted earlier:

 

Priya, Mike just wants to lean to the bad the negative even to the point that to some he might sound like his assumptions and speculations are just reaching and making stuff up, I don't agree with him but I do understand why/how he gets there.


Oh...I didn't see that one only the first car the op posted,
I can't get past the painful layout of the two tone paint, and didn't know that 77 got the vega wheel, I guess that no expense spared stopped at the floor mats...what is a "5k option"?

I lean the other way from the extent of work seen I wouldn't bet against it having been frame off, I would have to wonder just what unseen work was done, If I had interest I would ask for pictures of the frame off,
But the seller seems to want to move it out, over him 4500.00

 

Yes, back when he originially posted I suggested to Sluefoot that he ask for pictures of the undercarriage to verify if it was indeed a frame off restoration if he was willing to pay the asking price and paint it on top of that.

As far as Mike goes, I can appreciate advice to be cautious, but I draw the line at his making the definitive statments, first that the the car was not restored, and then second that things had gone wrong during the restoration. There's just no way to tell from the information that was available. Then he suggested I go look at the car and prove him wrong. He was the one making unsupported assertions, intellectually speaking the onus is on him to prove his unsupported assertions are correct, not on me to prove they are wrong - educated people accept that that's how logic works. I.E. if I claim I have an invisible unicorn in my back yard the onus is on me to prove it, not on others to prove it doesn't exist.

 

I fully agree with you,
Now for my assumptions, I assume from his posts that are not ot that he has a wealth of information on c3's
I also believe that you and many other here also do, we all might not have the same c3 wisdom but we have our knowledge,
I also believe that Mike is jaded, I gather he has a high standard and has seen too many cars like the one posted turn out to be less not more, sadly that is the case too many times, after seeing the body come off my 69 I too am far more jaded, it's hard from me to believe any non restored c3 doesn't have some rust. ( yeah, my nemesis is rust )
I fully agree that statements presented as fact need to be proven to be just that, we can speculate about a cars condition and situation all day long but until someone goes and checks it out it's not fact, posting speculation as fact just ads to the quagmire of misinformation already on the net but doesn't help.
It's a pretty safe bet neither you or Mike care enough about proving the other wrong to take a trip to check that car out,
After a while of seeing anyone make post after post trying to make their personal Assumptions, speculations and biases the fact readers will write off that person or take what they say "with a gain of salt" and move on to a more fact based information..

 

As I made no assertions about the condition of that car there is nothing Mike can prove me wrong about. He could be wrong about it, I cannot.

 

I agree...

 

Thanks.

 

Again TL;DR.

The two of you sure easy to wind up over nothing. Would you both like to be in charge of how new members are greeted and how other members can comment on potential purchases?

Hopefully you haven't scared off the OP or others that would want to ask questions.

 

We're just having a conversation. You're the one that got all offended because I didn't respect your claim that you can judge a car's condition when no facts are in evidence.

 

If anyone gets scared off I believe it would be from negative replies based on asumptions speculations and personal biases rather than basing critiquing on facts.

 

Ya' duzzn't hafta worry 'bout "scaring me off".....I'm here to stay....to learn and to hopefully participate!
Again, I'm going 2moro (Wed.) to look at the '79 I've been scopin' out off & on for awhile....I'll let ya'll know what the outcome is!!
Jerry

 

Looking forward to it Jerry.

 

CHANGE: Weather is icy & lousy all day today, so I'm rescheduling to this Friday instead....Bummer, but not worth gettin' caught in a big mess on snowy/icy road haulin' a car, let alone my 1st Vette!!