Birdcage Primer (Green) Source????
Team Owner
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 31,273
Likes: 4,366
From: Westminster Maryland
Hi Ned,
I believe the shade of green changed as the years went by and an even varied with-in a year.
I decided to match what was on my car.
I took a small dash bracket that had a good example of the color on my 71 to the local automotive paint supplier. They scanned it and mixed me some paint that I used.
I believe paint with chromate in it is difficult to find now because of the chromate's reputation as a carcinogenic.
I think the aviation industry is still a viable source for chromate paint if you feel the paint must have chromate as one of it's "ingredients".
Regards,
Alan
I believe the shade of green changed as the years went by and an even varied with-in a year.
I decided to match what was on my car.
I took a small dash bracket that had a good example of the color on my 71 to the local automotive paint supplier. They scanned it and mixed me some paint that I used.
I believe paint with chromate in it is difficult to find now because of the chromate's reputation as a carcinogenic.
I think the aviation industry is still a viable source for chromate paint if you feel the paint must have chromate as one of it's "ingredients".
Regards,
Alan
Last edited by Alan 71; Apr 6, 2017 at 08:34 AM.
Team Owner
Joined: Mar 2002
Posts: 44,677
Likes: 1,830
From: Huntsville AL
Maybe this will help.
ZINC CHROMATE PRIMER 1757B1C-T GREEN #34151
Bell Helicopter P/N 2230-06771-00
Randolph Products Company
33 Haynes Circle
Chicopee, MA 01020
Telephone 413-592-4191
Facsimile: 413-594-7321
ZINC CHROMATE PRIMER 1757B1C-T GREEN #34151
Solids by Volume: 44.6 +/- 2%
VOC content: 3.7 lbs/gallon (444 grams/liter) – as supplied
Solids by Weight: 63.4 +/- 2%
DFT: 0.7 – 1.0 mils
Viscosity: 16 – 25 seconds #4 Ford Cup
Gloss @ 60”: 6 maximum
Dry Time: Set to Touch: 5 minutes Dry Hard: 15 minutes
Theoretical Coverage @ 1 mil dft: 715 ft2/gallon
Shelf Life: Two years from date of manufacture
OR
SO-SURE Aerosol Primer-TT-P-1757B, Zinc Chromate Metal Primer, Green, 34151, NSN 8010-00-899-8825
http://store.armyproperty.com/produc...-899-8825.html
ZINC CHROMATE PRIMER 1757B1C-T GREEN #34151
Bell Helicopter P/N 2230-06771-00
Randolph Products Company
33 Haynes Circle
Chicopee, MA 01020
Telephone 413-592-4191
Facsimile: 413-594-7321
ZINC CHROMATE PRIMER 1757B1C-T GREEN #34151
Solids by Volume: 44.6 +/- 2%
VOC content: 3.7 lbs/gallon (444 grams/liter) – as supplied
Solids by Weight: 63.4 +/- 2%
DFT: 0.7 – 1.0 mils
Viscosity: 16 – 25 seconds #4 Ford Cup
Gloss @ 60”: 6 maximum
Dry Time: Set to Touch: 5 minutes Dry Hard: 15 minutes
Theoretical Coverage @ 1 mil dft: 715 ft2/gallon
Shelf Life: Two years from date of manufacture
OR
SO-SURE Aerosol Primer-TT-P-1757B, Zinc Chromate Metal Primer, Green, 34151, NSN 8010-00-899-8825
http://store.armyproperty.com/produc...-899-8825.html
Le Mans Master
Joined: May 2006
Posts: 5,814
Likes: 414
From: Pittsburgh suburbs Pa.
Maybe this will help.
ZINC CHROMATE PRIMER 1757B1C-T GREEN #34151
Bell Helicopter P/N 2230-06771-00
Randolph Products Company
33 Haynes Circle
Chicopee, MA 01020
Telephone 413-592-4191
Facsimile: 413-594-7321
ZINC CHROMATE PRIMER 1757B1C-T GREEN #34151
Solids by Volume: 44.6 +/- 2%
VOC content: 3.7 lbs/gallon (444 grams/liter) – as supplied
Solids by Weight: 63.4 +/- 2%
DFT: 0.7 – 1.0 mils
Viscosity: 16 – 25 seconds #4 Ford Cup
Gloss @ 60”: 6 maximum
Dry Time: Set to Touch: 5 minutes Dry Hard: 15 minutes
Theoretical Coverage @ 1 mil dft: 715 ft2/gallon
Shelf Life: Two years from date of manufacture
OR
SO-SURE Aerosol Primer-TT-P-1757B, Zinc Chromate Metal Primer, Green, 34151, NSN 8010-00-899-8825
http://store.armyproperty.com/produc...-899-8825.html
ZINC CHROMATE PRIMER 1757B1C-T GREEN #34151
Bell Helicopter P/N 2230-06771-00
Randolph Products Company
33 Haynes Circle
Chicopee, MA 01020
Telephone 413-592-4191
Facsimile: 413-594-7321
ZINC CHROMATE PRIMER 1757B1C-T GREEN #34151
Solids by Volume: 44.6 +/- 2%
VOC content: 3.7 lbs/gallon (444 grams/liter) – as supplied
Solids by Weight: 63.4 +/- 2%
DFT: 0.7 – 1.0 mils
Viscosity: 16 – 25 seconds #4 Ford Cup
Gloss @ 60”: 6 maximum
Dry Time: Set to Touch: 5 minutes Dry Hard: 15 minutes
Theoretical Coverage @ 1 mil dft: 715 ft2/gallon
Shelf Life: Two years from date of manufacture
OR
SO-SURE Aerosol Primer-TT-P-1757B, Zinc Chromate Metal Primer, Green, 34151, NSN 8010-00-899-8825
http://store.armyproperty.com/produc...-899-8825.html
Melting Slicks
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 3,381
Likes: 2,605
From: Burning Jet-A
To add to this thread, I would recommend another source. Zinc Chromate primer, while used in aircraft, is kinda crappy today and not used in the restoration world. Aircraft restorers generally use a epoxy urethane that is either a "Yellow Zinc" or a "Green Zinc" and use the two colors to get the desired tint they want in a wheel well or panel inside. You can get incredible results and durability is "lifetime"
When mixed right, this is what you get on the aircraft side. You may have to play with the epoxy to get to the right shade on the C3 you have. Batches of zinc back in the day, and even today seem to change color (coming out of different cans) over time, some being more green, others more yellow. No real consistency perhaps in the suppliers.
If you don't want to play with mixing epoxy primers....you can buy the rattle cans also at "Aircraft Spruce" a supply store for lots of aviation stuff...look out, their catalog is awesome.
http://www.aircraftspruce.com/catalo...ptiprimers.php
When mixed right, this is what you get on the aircraft side. You may have to play with the epoxy to get to the right shade on the C3 you have. Batches of zinc back in the day, and even today seem to change color (coming out of different cans) over time, some being more green, others more yellow. No real consistency perhaps in the suppliers.
If you don't want to play with mixing epoxy primers....you can buy the rattle cans also at "Aircraft Spruce" a supply store for lots of aviation stuff...look out, their catalog is awesome.
http://www.aircraftspruce.com/catalo...ptiprimers.php
Last edited by international blue; Apr 6, 2017 at 12:12 PM.
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Thread Starter
Burning Brakes
Joined: Feb 2008
Posts: 993
Likes: 44
From: Jefferson Hills PA
Hi Ned,
I believe the shade of green changed as the years went by and an even varied with-in a year.
I decided to match what was on my car.
I took a small dash bracket that had a good example of the color on my 71 to the local automotive paint supplier. They scanned it and mixed me some paint that I used.
I believe paint with chromate in it is difficult to find now because of the chromate's reputation as a carcinogenic.
I think the aviation industry is still a viable source for chromate paint if you feel the paint must have chromate as one of it's "ingredients".
Regards,
Alan
I believe the shade of green changed as the years went by and an even varied with-in a year.
I decided to match what was on my car.
I took a small dash bracket that had a good example of the color on my 71 to the local automotive paint supplier. They scanned it and mixed me some paint that I used.
I believe paint with chromate in it is difficult to find now because of the chromate's reputation as a carcinogenic.
I think the aviation industry is still a viable source for chromate paint if you feel the paint must have chromate as one of it's "ingredients".
Regards,
Alan
That is the finished look I'm after but I think mine is a little darker, not enough to worry about though.
Ned
Thread Starter
Burning Brakes
Joined: Feb 2008
Posts: 993
Likes: 44
From: Jefferson Hills PA
I want to preserve the N14 Marking behind the drivers seat for side exhaust. I will probably just put a nice square piece of masking tape over it when I spray it. I don't want to paint over it and try to use crayon again to duplicate it. Any other ideas on how to preserve this???
Team Owner
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 31,273
Likes: 4,366
From: Westminster Maryland
Hi Ned,
Using a flash really lightens it.
This may be a bit is more typical of what's on my car.
As I said, I can't imagine that the color didn't change time went by.
I see various shades on original cars I get to take a look at.
Regards,
Alan
Using a flash really lightens it.
This may be a bit is more typical of what's on my car.
As I said, I can't imagine that the color didn't change time went by.
I see various shades on original cars I get to take a look at.
Regards,
Alan
Team Owner
Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 37,637
Likes: 3,118
From: Crossville TN
What you need for painting bare metal is a 'self-etching' primer. I have had good success with Dupi-Color Automotive Primer, labeled as DAP 1690, in spray cans found at most auto parts stores.
The color is a little darker green than what Alan71's photos show, but is a matte finish like you are wanting and works really well as a bare-metal primer, but also works as a 'general' primer, where needed.
For birdcage or other [metal] frame use, you also need to be concerned with light surface rusting. Once loose rust has been dislodged and surface is cleaned and free of contaminants, a 'rust encapsulator' or 'rust converter' should be used to seal that surface rust to the base material and prevent progression of rusting. THEN would be a good time to use the DAP 1690, as well as on bare metal.
This product dries to the touch very quickly (matter of minutes) and can be painted over shortly thereafter. But, as with all regular paints, they should cure for 2-3 days for them to be fully adhered and durable for normal use.
The color is a little darker green than what Alan71's photos show, but is a matte finish like you are wanting and works really well as a bare-metal primer, but also works as a 'general' primer, where needed.
For birdcage or other [metal] frame use, you also need to be concerned with light surface rusting. Once loose rust has been dislodged and surface is cleaned and free of contaminants, a 'rust encapsulator' or 'rust converter' should be used to seal that surface rust to the base material and prevent progression of rusting. THEN would be a good time to use the DAP 1690, as well as on bare metal.
This product dries to the touch very quickly (matter of minutes) and can be painted over shortly thereafter. But, as with all regular paints, they should cure for 2-3 days for them to be fully adhered and durable for normal use.
Last edited by 7T1vette; Apr 6, 2017 at 01:44 PM.
Team Owner
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 31,273
Likes: 4,366
From: Westminster Maryland
Hi Ned,
I have no suggestion for preserving the crayon markings while repainting the bulkhead.
When you get the book about David Burroughs' restoration you'll see in some cases he made a sort of 'stencil' of the original mark and used that to duplicate the original.
Since he was doing a 'restoration' and not a 'preservation' he was mainly interested in duplicating the markings as accurately as possible.
Regards,
Alan
Certainly the best preserved cars are Bowtie cars.
The sad thing is that most owners understandably resist any sort of disassembly, so many, many, of the most interesting details go unseen.
I have no suggestion for preserving the crayon markings while repainting the bulkhead.
When you get the book about David Burroughs' restoration you'll see in some cases he made a sort of 'stencil' of the original mark and used that to duplicate the original.
Since he was doing a 'restoration' and not a 'preservation' he was mainly interested in duplicating the markings as accurately as possible.
Regards,
Alan
Certainly the best preserved cars are Bowtie cars.
The sad thing is that most owners understandably resist any sort of disassembly, so many, many, of the most interesting details go unseen.
Last edited by Alan 71; Apr 6, 2017 at 02:06 PM.
Thread Starter
Burning Brakes
Joined: Feb 2008
Posts: 993
Likes: 44
From: Jefferson Hills PA
What you need for painting bare metal is a 'self-etching' primer. I have had good success with Dupi-Color Automotive Primer, labeled as DAP 1690, in spray cans found at most auto parts stores.
The color is a little darker green than what Alan71's photos show, but is a matte finish like you are wanting and works really well as a bare-metal primer, but also works as a 'general' primer, where needed.
For birdcage or other [metal] frame use, you also need to be concerned with light surface rusting. Once loose rust has been dislodged and surface is cleaned and free of contaminants, a 'rust encapsulator' or 'rust converter' should be used to seal that surface rust to the base material and prevent progression of rusting. THEN would be a good time to use the DAP 1690, as well as on bare metal.
This product dries to the touch very quickly (matter of minutes) and can be painted over shortly thereafter. But, as with all regular paints, they should cure for 2-3 days for them to be fully adhered and durable for normal use.
The color is a little darker green than what Alan71's photos show, but is a matte finish like you are wanting and works really well as a bare-metal primer, but also works as a 'general' primer, where needed.
For birdcage or other [metal] frame use, you also need to be concerned with light surface rusting. Once loose rust has been dislodged and surface is cleaned and free of contaminants, a 'rust encapsulator' or 'rust converter' should be used to seal that surface rust to the base material and prevent progression of rusting. THEN would be a good time to use the DAP 1690, as well as on bare metal.
This product dries to the touch very quickly (matter of minutes) and can be painted over shortly thereafter. But, as with all regular paints, they should cure for 2-3 days for them to be fully adhered and durable for normal use.
I'm going to sand blast my rocker channels since I have great access and they will be bare metal. Inside my #2 and #3 Body Mounts I won't be able to sand blast those since I don't have good access.
Rocker Channels bare metal....Etching primer then Zinc Green ???
Body Mount Areas................Rust Encapsulator then Green Zinc???
Sound like the way to go?
Ned
Thread Starter
Burning Brakes
Joined: Feb 2008
Posts: 993
Likes: 44
From: Jefferson Hills PA
Hi Ned,
I have no suggestion for preserving the crayon markings while repainting the bulkhead.
When you get the book about David Burroughs' restoration you'll see in some cases he made a sort of 'stencil' of the original mark and used that to duplicate the original.
Since he was doing a 'restoration' and not a 'preservation' he was mainly interested in duplicating the markings as accurately as possible.
Regards,
Alan
Certainly the best preserved cars are Bowtie cars.
The sad thing is that most owners understandably resist any sort of disassembly, so many, many, of the most interesting details go unseen.
I have no suggestion for preserving the crayon markings while repainting the bulkhead.
When you get the book about David Burroughs' restoration you'll see in some cases he made a sort of 'stencil' of the original mark and used that to duplicate the original.
Since he was doing a 'restoration' and not a 'preservation' he was mainly interested in duplicating the markings as accurately as possible.
Regards,
Alan
Certainly the best preserved cars are Bowtie cars.
The sad thing is that most owners understandably resist any sort of disassembly, so many, many, of the most interesting details go unseen.
I see what you mean about Preservation VS. Restoration. Although I'm doing a Restoration do you think it would be a good idea to still Preserve the N14 side exhaust marking? It is behind carpet and probably never to be seen again. I just don't feel right removing it, weird huh?
Ned
Team Owner
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 31,273
Likes: 4,366
From: Westminster Maryland
Hi Ned,
I don't know!
I always like to go back to the idea that the car tells it's story.
Either it's a side exhaust car or it's not.
The bulkhead appears to be original…. the N14 could have been written there this morning!
I don't know??????
Regards,
Alan
People stick their fingers in the rear frame rails to sense for the SHAPE of the bolt head used for the exhaust hanger in the surface of the frame. The thought is if a bolt head was there the rusted surface of the steel will have a tell tale mark.
I don't know!
I always like to go back to the idea that the car tells it's story.
Either it's a side exhaust car or it's not.
The bulkhead appears to be original…. the N14 could have been written there this morning!
I don't know??????
Regards,
Alan
People stick their fingers in the rear frame rails to sense for the SHAPE of the bolt head used for the exhaust hanger in the surface of the frame. The thought is if a bolt head was there the rusted surface of the steel will have a tell tale mark.
Thread Starter
Burning Brakes
Joined: Feb 2008
Posts: 993
Likes: 44
From: Jefferson Hills PA
Hi Ned,
I don't know!
I always like to go back to the idea that the car tells it's story.
Either it's a side exhaust car or it's not.
The bulkhead appears to be original…. the N14 could have been written there this morning!
I don't know??????
Regards,
Alan
People stick their fingers in the rear frame rails to sense for the SHAPE of the bolt head used for the exhaust hanger in the surface of the frame. The thought is if a bolt head was there the rusted surface of the steel will have a tell tale mark.
I don't know!
I always like to go back to the idea that the car tells it's story.
Either it's a side exhaust car or it's not.
The bulkhead appears to be original…. the N14 could have been written there this morning!
I don't know??????
Regards,
Alan
People stick their fingers in the rear frame rails to sense for the SHAPE of the bolt head used for the exhaust hanger in the surface of the frame. The thought is if a bolt head was there the rusted surface of the steel will have a tell tale mark.
I don't plan on selling the car or getting it judged so the originality of the side exhaust is all for my satisfaction. I have documented several things for my own sake before I bought the car.
Spacer at transmission mount
Hack job cutout of front fender for clearance
N14 Marking
Original insulation on frame rail that I saved
Original threaded clips welded to rocker channels for covers
The rear fenders never being cut out or patched and appear to be original factory seams
Frame rail bolt location has some disfiguration as if it had bolts pulling down on the slot
I never thought to check the frame for the bolt leaving a mark and now that it's been hot dipped galvanized I don't think I can.
Ned
Any other things I can look for?
Last edited by NMT1957; Apr 6, 2017 at 03:06 PM.
Team Owner
Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 37,637
Likes: 3,118
From: Crossville TN
If you have some access to the 'real' zinc chromate paint, you should do that in lieu of the self-etching primer. AFAIC, either is interchangeable with the other...with the 'real' stuff being the preference--if you can get it. The color of the self-etching DAP 1690 is similar to zinc chromate...just somewhat darker. No need to use both, IMO.
Team Owner
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 31,273
Likes: 4,366
From: Westminster Maryland
Hi Ned,
Perhaps you could add to your list that the small bracket welded to the muffler, and the rear attachment of the shield, have to correspond to each other, and be of the proper 'era'.
When did the 'S' shaped rear bracket appear?
Regards,
Alan
Perhaps you could add to your list that the small bracket welded to the muffler, and the rear attachment of the shield, have to correspond to each other, and be of the proper 'era'.
When did the 'S' shaped rear bracket appear?
Regards,
Alan
Last edited by Alan 71; Apr 6, 2017 at 03:58 PM.