For those of you who have installed the factory style flat rivets:

What are your recommendations for install tools? From what I've found online so far, an air chisel with a special bit and a bucking block look to be the ticket.

Ecklers has a set for about $47 shipped on ebay.

Any other suggestions? I just need to do a couple rivets to reattach some brackets in the driver's footwell. Add in the cost of the rivets, and that'll be about $60 to do half a dozen rivets.

I have an air chisel and a block of metal I could use for a bucking block. Any inventive low $ solutions, or is this one of those things you're better off biting the bullet on?

 

Hi r,
I use a rivet set tool and a hammer which is the cheap way to do it.
If you have an air source each rivet takes only a second to set.
Generally the most difficult thing to do is to find someone who can buck the head side of the rivet.
The length of the shank of the rivet is important so there's enough to form the mushroom fully, but not so much so that the shank wants to lay over to the side.
Good Luck!
Regards,
Alan

This tool has a 'dome' shaped depression machined into it's tip.

 

You can make the air chisel bit yourself out of an old one by cutting off the business end and grinding a concave hollow in the shortened round end of the shaft. The finished product looks factory.

 

Alan, if it works good enough for YOUR car, then it'll be good enough for mine!

That sounds like my best bet. Harbor Freight, here I come.

Thanks, guys.
Rick

 

This will work.

OR....you can buy the correct bit with the concave already made in it like I used when I shot rivets in the front wall and rear wall at Fruehauf Trailers. NOW...they did not care that the 'bucked' end of the rivet was compressed with a rounded look like what GM did I when making the Corvettes....because the heads of the rivets were domed...and they were more worried that the heads looked undamaged.

That way...if you have the correct concave bit...you can install the rivets GM used that have a domed head and then use a bucking bar like what Alan has shown in a photo.

I do agree...with out my air hammers...I could not do what I do ..especially when I ahve so many rivets to install on a Corvette from time to time...and even with the air hammer it can take hours of shooting and bucking the rivets.

DUB

 

That's a crap-ton of rivets! Anybody that's never noticed, count the rivets on the next tractor trailer you see.

 

I'm sure Harbor Freight or other places have pneumatic rivet guns and rivet sets for sale. I have my A&P (aircraft mechanic) and to buck flush or flathead rivets you need what is called a flush set. It is a flat rivet set that goes in your rivet gun. Riveting properly takes a lot of practice and experience (at least when it comes to aircraft riveting). It's kind of in tune with welding. Yes, most anyone can weld two pieces of metal together but will it be strong, look good and last. Same with riveting. If it's just two or three rivets you are doing then an air hammer with a homemade set could be used. Be careful on what you use to make the set and buck the rivets. If the wrong material is used it could explode like hitting two hammers together. A trick with the bucking bars......the heavier the better.

If you are doing a lot then I suggest practicing first and get the feel for it before doing it on your car. Once you get the feel for it you can tell the rivet is sufficiently bucked by feel and sound.

Good rule of thumb:


Rivet sets


Get some cleko fasteners and pliers. Holds everything in place. There are different sizes for different hole diameters.

 

Check any airplane you happen to see. A lot of rivets on and in those too


Floor panels in a C141 or a C5 can take a few days, with 3 shifts working on them, to get done. Thousands of rivets, just like those trailers.

 

Absolutely! I fly all the time for work, so I've noticed that too, as I'm staring out the window. All of them flush.

Happy Independence Day!

 

The side walls and front wall were made using a huge press that bucked the rivets in another are of the plant. All I had to do was join the front wall to the side walls that were installed on the frame before it came into my department. Then the frame for the rear doors was set in place at the end of the side walls...still...there were quite a lot of rivets I had to install on each trailer.

DUB

 

All I can add is this.....DEPENDING on your air hammer....going in and pulling on the trigger all the way MAY NOT be a GOOD idea. What I do is slowly throttle mine from a slow cadence where it seems that the air hammer is doing nothing...and then pull the trigger to increase the cadence and force to get the rivet to smash correctly...BECAUSE what this does is allow me to STAY in control of the air hammer and not let it beat the living crap out of me or the body or the rivet. From start to finish on a rivet ...a full second in most cases. And that full second is the time I am increasing the trigger pull.

Try it out and see for yourself. BECAUSE the new guys that transferred in my area at the plant I worked at went to try to do what I was doing...were actually allowing the rivet set tool to damage the aluminum panels because they had not learned the air hammers that we had that were SERIOUS air hammers that had a punch like a heavy weight fighter.

DUB

 

I know I shot a lot of rivets...but you guys in the airplane industry...well I have to bow my head because THAT is A LOT of rivets. Actually...it is an INSANE AMOUNT of rivets.

DUB

 

Thanks, DUB. I'll definitely practice before I do the real panel.

Rick

 

When I was working in the airliner business we had a lot of 737-100 and -200's. Remember the Aloha Airlines 737 that blew it's top? A few months after they figured out that stress cracks that were forming around the rivet holes in the skin caused it to blow we had and AD (Airworthiness Directive) from the FAA to inspect and repair all our 737 - 100 and -200's. We had to perform what we called the Aloha Mod. It consisted of drilling out the thousand of rivets along the crown of the fuselage, drill up the holes and install button head rivets in their place. The original rivets were flush mount. After it was done the top of the fuselage looked like a boiler. All together it took about 3 months to complete with 24/7 man hours. Other than working on the LAV's it was the worst job ever. Very boring and monotonous.

Riveting technique is as Dub explained and a good rivet gun has a trigger that will control the air and speed. That is why I personally would not use an air chisel. At least my air chisel's trigger is all on or all off and I would not use it to rivet. Start slow so the set doesn't jump off the rivet and cause what we called a smiley face.

 

Just "mushrooming" the head on a rivet does NOT a finished rivet make!

The strength in a riveted joint is in the FILLING OF THE HOLE IN WHICH IT IS PLACED. The shank of the rivet must compress and then get squeezed out to completely fill the hole....THEN the head must be formed.

If you just put a head on the end, the joint will be very weak and not get the job done nearly as well as the original assembly.

I've described and discussed this MANY time on this Forum...and the same folks give their spiel over and over again about 'bucking the head of the rivet'. Buck all you want... It isn't a riveted joint until the rivet material fills the hole.

 

Thanks to all for your input.

I'm just going to be reattaching a couple brackets and the dimmer switch pedal. Nothing structural that I'd be worried about failing. I have a pop riveter and considered using that, but I'd like to reinstall the stock style rivets...just a preference.

I'll be trying out the air chisel method and see how that goes. If I'm not satisfied, I'll drill them out and break out the pop riveter.

 

For something 'light duty', Pop-rivets would probably work fine. As long as the riveted item doesn't need to support a lot of loading.

 

OH YEAH...I KNOW all about those 'smiley faces' The quality control guy would inspect EVERY rivet I shot and if I had even the slightest mark..I had to replace the rivet.

DUB

 

Tell me something I don't know. I've had 100's of rivets rejected by inspectors during my aviation career. Hell, the hardest part of getting my A&P was the structural practical test where you are one-on-one with and FAA examiner and have to weld, rivet, safety wire etc. in order to get your license. That's on top of the written test that have diagrams and pictures asking question about the condition of rivets.


BTW you don't buck the head, you buck the shank.

 

Using 'pop' rivets would work here. But I also can appreciate your wiliness to try to put it back like it was built....and increase your abilities at the same time and do something different.

DUB