If I thought the OP already knew about the forming of rivets, I wouldn't have taken my time trying to help.

Not sure why "Andies" is being so 'testy'; this isn't his thread.....

 

What did I do? I'm just trying to help. Not sure where I'm being "testy". Next time I know something that most never ever do in their life I'll just shut the **** up then.

 

No, and it's not yours either. If you felt you were slighted in some way, feel free to take it up with that person directly. Not in my thread, please.

Thank you for sharing your insights on proper riveting technique.

Hey Andies. While I didn't respond directly to your post, it was helpful to me. Thank you!

I didn't think you were being testy. The problem with the written word...no physical cues.

But I was confused by your statement..."BTW you don't buck the head, you buck the shank." The bucking block fits over the head to support it while the shank is mushroomed by whatever tool you're using, correct? So, when you "buck" the rivet, does that describe using the bucking block to support the head, or the process of mushrooming the shank? Your statement seems counterintuitive to me (but would certainly not be the first time my logic was flawed!).

 

The shank is what is being 'bucked'. The head of the rivet should NOT be deformed.

I think it is either typo mistake in the previous post or they have it backwards.

YES...the rivet shank MUST be compressed and fill in and cover up the hole in order to make the rivet do what it is intended....and passed Quality Control inspection when I did it.

NO NEED to do that. I may not have riveted as many rivets as you...but I DO know what it is all about..and i agree...most people will never do what we have done.

It all depends on what the head of the rivet looks like. IF the rivet has a flat head....than a heavy flat piece of metal can be placed ON the head....and while applying force to hold the rivet in place....then an air hammer with a tool on it can be used to smash the shank.

NOW...if you are looking for the smashed portion of the rivet to look a specific way...THEN the tool in your air hammer is what will do this. So if you want the shank to have a domed look...then the tool you use will have to have that look inverted to do it.

IF you have a rivet with a domed head....then you have to have a tool that will cover it without damaging it and then a tool to make the shank look like what you want. So if you want the shank to look flat....use a heavy piece of flat metal...if you want the shank end to look domed...then you will need that type of tool to shape the aluminum into that domed shape.

The term.... 'bucking a rivet' is the process. In most cases it is relating to the tool that touches the shank of the rivet. Becasue that is what we called that at the plant: a 'bucking bar'. BUT....I can have a bucking bar that has the inverted dome in it that I would place on the HEAD of the domed rivet....BUT..I will use the flat head tool in my air hammer to smash the rivet becasue I do not care if the shank is domed or not.

DUB

 

I've spent countless hours behind a rivet gun and a bucking bar and I know what I'm talking about. If I know the subject and see someone using the wrong terminology I'll address that so to avoid confusion in the future. That's not being snooty, testy or whatever. If you really want to get technical the proper terminology installing rivets is called setting the rivet. It's all good guys and hopefully this helps a little too:

RIVET GUN = Pneumatic tool to set rivets

RIVET SET (placed in the RIVET GUN ) = Goes on the rivet HEAD when setting. Depending on the TYPE of rivet depends on what RIVET SET goes into the RIVET GUN. (see picture in post #7)

RIVET BUCKING BAR = Held on the rivet shank when setting. These are not used on the rivet head. There are cases when the bucking bar has dimples etc. for placing on the rivet head but this is not used very often and usually depends on the conditions of construction.
They come in all shorts of shapes and weights to adjust to the varying angles need to overcome to set the rivet correctly.

BUCKING BARS




RIVET SET inserted into RIVET GUN (Always use the spring that holds the set in. I've seen teeth get knocked out by the set flying out when the spring is not installed)




Technique




Nice starter set



Types of SOLID Rivets (this is just the tip of the iceburg). The most commonly used one I've see on our cars is the flat rivet far right made out of aluminum.




Improper setting:

 

RIVET SET (placed in the RIVET GUN ) = Goes on the rivet HEAD when setting.

RIVET BUCKING BAR = Held on the rivet shank when setting.


Ok, this is the part I had backwards. Thanks for the clarification.

 

My job here is done!

 

BUT it CAN go the other way depending on the rivet head design.

IF my rivet head was FLAT..I would put a flat piece of metal on it...and then I would use my air hammer with the rivet set in it as shown below to create the domed 'bucked' end of the rivet shank....and that is IF I do NOT have a bucking bar with the recess dome in it like the rivet set has.

Did that make sense???



In other words....the air hammer and rivet set DO NOT always HAVE TO be placed on the head of the rivet.

DUB

 

That won't fly in aviation.......sorry. There is a possibility of damaging the structure be it the skin or underlying structure like a rib or stringer. The reason there are different types of set for the different types of rivets. Universal rivets (solid rivets are classified by the shape of the head) should be set with a universal set, round head with a round set etc. Pay attention to the set when placed on the rivet, the set will not touch the underlying structure (if using the proper set lol). If you bucked the shank with the rivet set as stated there is a possibility of damaging the structure because there is not this protection bucking the shank. Can't say it can't be done but it's not standard practice. My experience is in aviation sheet metal repair so these other methods may be used extensively in other industries. I don't know. I do know aviation has made riveting an art form and rivets are the single largest used fastener in commercial and military aircraft for decades.

Hey, I safety wire my header bolts so my aircraft mechanic is always on I guess.

 

I can see why in aviation it would not be a practice used...but....in the numerous rivets I have installed as per the 'aviation' method....I have also done countless the 'other' way and there is no problem in the 'other' way.

And considering that these rivets are generally only holding metal part to the body for ease of installing another part such as seat retainer on the floor pans....these rivets are not as critical as rivets in an airplane....as you know.

My experience is in manufacturing the Fruehauf trailers...which was done as like you do them in aviation....BUT..I ahve also been doing it on Corvettes for a very long times and I can say..I could rivet it in both methods and you can not tell which way I did it.

DUB

 

Been fretting about this riveting thing for a bit since I will need to use driven rivets when I start working on my interior for things like the seat mounts etc. This thread has provided all the clarity I was looking for so thanks to all who contributed.

 

Seat mounts, etc are important items that MUST remain in place...particularly when experiencing a major impact/collision. If an important rivet is not made of the proper material or it is not formed such that the joint has the needed strength to maintain integrity in a crash, you might as well just use Pop-Rivets there, too.

 

You are correct. My guess is the seat track rivets are steel and were either hot driven or driven hydraulically. A standard rivet gun/set like I posted wouldn't drive a steel rivet.

They may make a rivet gun that will drive steel rivets, I don't know. I wouldn't want to be the bucking bar man. Holding that and driving a steel rivet I suspect would not feel too well. I've gone home many mornings with sore hands and arms after bucking rivets all night.

 

Hi ta,
The rivets used on the underbody brackets including the mounting plates for the front and rear seat mounts, and the center and outer brackets for the seat belt bolts on my 71, were all soft aluminum, not steel.

I drilled them out and realize there's a big difference drilling an aluminum rivet compared to drilling a steel rivet.

Here's a photo from the Fall of 1970 edition of the 'Corvette News' of the various brackets being placed and fastened on a 70 (?) underbody.

Regards,
Alan

He's working on the installation of the 'nut/plate' for the shoulder belt reel.
You can see the bracket for the inner seatbelt nuts is already in place.
It also appears he may have already done the #4 body mount reinforcement. Is there some kind of fixture attached at that body mount that's holding the underbody steady?
There's not enough contrast to really tell if the brackets for the battery 'hold-down' on in place yet.



This is a rivet used for the attachment of the spare tire tub strap to the tub.
It's the only rivet that I'm aware of in which the 'set' end of the rivet was controlled in both size and shape.
The little groove around the perimeter appears to be typical.