U-joint nightmare
Thread Starter
Team Owner
Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 23,831
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From: Springfield MO
St. Jude Donor '07
U-joint nightmare
No matter what I do, I cannot get my u-joints pressed in to where I can get the clip on each end. My drive flanges were slightly bent from the pressing, I straightened one of them and pressed the caps back down as tight as I could onto the joint body, and I still can only get one clip in. I don't think any of the needles fell down and are keeping the joints from fully seating, the seals look like they're in the exact position they were in before removal. Would it be OK to use some thinner standard-style 1 1/4" inside c-clips, rather than the u-joint style clips? This is really driving me nuts. The only thing I can think of is that the caps are machined slightly too thick.
Abby Normal
Joined: Dec 2001
Posts: 53,311
Likes: 92
From: Press "2" for English
i gotta say you need to pull those joints and check them. this is not the problem to just wing it. you muddle this one up and a half shaft could perform instantaneous spinal relocation surgury.
i'd pull the new ones back out, make sure a needle didn't fall and, if you have the old ones, compare them side by side to see if they are indeed the same. if so, then i think it's time to take the shafts to a shop and have the yokes realigned.
i'd pull the new ones back out, make sure a needle didn't fall and, if you have the old ones, compare them side by side to see if they are indeed the same. if so, then i think it's time to take the shafts to a shop and have the yokes realigned.
Thread Starter
Team Owner
Joined: Oct 2004
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From: Springfield MO
St. Jude Donor '07
I don't have the old joints to compare. I've read quite a few posts in the archives that detailed similar problems, often the solution was grinding the clips so that they were thinner and would drop into place. I'm definately not trying to "wing it," I'm just trying to get the freakin' things to fit.
There is one of the new joints that I'm going to have to pull and replace. I don't know what I did to it, but it has a bit of a grinding feel in the rotation. If that one has any needles fallen, I'll check the others. I was very careful in installing the caps, I'm pretty sure that no needles could have dropped.
One thing that I do remember is that I had to use a screwdriver and hammer to remove the old clips. They were tight beyond belief. And I don't see how every flange could be misaligned.
There is one of the new joints that I'm going to have to pull and replace. I don't know what I did to it, but it has a bit of a grinding feel in the rotation. If that one has any needles fallen, I'll check the others. I was very careful in installing the caps, I'm pretty sure that no needles could have dropped.
One thing that I do remember is that I had to use a screwdriver and hammer to remove the old clips. They were tight beyond belief. And I don't see how every flange could be misaligned.
Last edited by I'm Batman; Sep 18, 2006 at 03:31 AM.
Heel & Toe
Joined: Feb 2006
Posts: 21
Likes: 0
I recently had the same problem with one flange. Took it apart and found a dent (high spot) on the flange I.D. caused by the old cap cocking as I pressed it out. I filed down the high spot and it went back together fine and the clips both fit in thier grooves.
Le Mans Master
Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 9,192
Likes: 27
From: Boca Raton Florida
I had 2 of the six on mine give me a similar problem last week. Had to take them back out, made sure I hadn't dropped a pin, cleaned the ring groove put it back together. Make sure when you get the one side in, you put the end back in the press and use a socket to press the joint all the way back down against the clip and then check the empty groove and see what you have. I had to do one of them twice. It doesn't take much of a bend in the ear on the end to put you out of line. Thats about the only thing that can be wrong, the differences between one u-joint and another will be more than a couple thousandths in the length, so you probly don't have a wrong one.
Measure the distance inside the ears on a couple ends and compare them, I bet one is still bent a bit, doesn't take much.
Measure the distance inside the ears on a couple ends and compare them, I bet one is still bent a bit, doesn't take much.
Le Mans Master
Joined: Jan 2000
Posts: 8,918
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From: New Hill NC
The problem is with the initial proceedure. It is common for amateurs to collapse the flanges. The outer flange is very thin and bends easily. They need to be bolted up to the outer flange, the one on the axle, to help support the pressing process. This along with a little honing to clean the hole, will keep them from bending.
Last edited by wombvette; Sep 18, 2006 at 02:23 PM.
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Le Mans Master
Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 5,269
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From: Orlando Florida
St. Jude Donor '05
If the flange is not straight you'll have to bolt it to something that is straight (f.e. the spindle flange).
Make sure there are no high spots inside the bore.
Make sure you didn't drop a pin... (if you did your cup will be off by the thickness of the pin, roughly .080" per my memory.... that's a lot and very obvious)
I'd prefer to grind the end of the cup with a sanding disc instead of making the clip thinner. It probably only takes 2-3 thou so balance or off center position of the u-joint shouldn't be of concern..... you could grind both cups to center the U-joint....
Make sure there are no high spots inside the bore.
Make sure you didn't drop a pin... (if you did your cup will be off by the thickness of the pin, roughly .080" per my memory.... that's a lot and very obvious)
I'd prefer to grind the end of the cup with a sanding disc instead of making the clip thinner. It probably only takes 2-3 thou so balance or off center position of the u-joint shouldn't be of concern..... you could grind both cups to center the U-joint....
Race Director
Joined: Nov 2000
Posts: 11,872
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From: Waterloo ontario Canada
Originally Posted by wombvette
The problem is with the initial proceedure. It is common for amatures to collapse the flanges. The outher flange is very thin and bends easily. They need to be bolted up to the outer flange, the one on the axle, to help support the pressing process. This along with a little honing to clean the hole, will keep them from bending.
I then place the 1/2 shaft in the vise, lube the bores really well and then with a small brass hammer walk the caps on.
No force is used, the caps actually almost push in with finger press only
Thread Starter
Team Owner
Joined: Oct 2004
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From: Springfield MO
St. Jude Donor '07
Originally Posted by wombvette
The problem is with the initial proceedure. It is common for amatures to collapse the flanges. The outher flange is very thin and bends easily. They need to be bolted up to the outer flange, the one on the axle, to help support the pressing process. This along with a little honing to clean the hole, will keep them from bending.
I'm going to re-bolt the drive flanges to the outer flange when I mess with them again, but the problems with the joints in the drive flanges (they're just on the flanges so far, I haven't installed those in the halfshafts) seem identical to the problems with the joints on the halfshafts.
Norval, I burned one of the old joints out with the gas axe...that was an...interesting...experience. The old grease inside the joint body didn't like it too much.
Last edited by I'm Batman; Sep 18, 2006 at 01:49 PM.
Le Mans Master
Joined: Jan 2000
Posts: 8,918
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From: New Hill NC
You should look closely at the face of the flange. Look for warping in the thin area. I also use the smoke wrench on difficult ones if they will not come off easily. By running a hone through the bore, it will reduce the force needed to press them in. I dont think they should be totally loose though. There should be a little press fit.
Melting Slicks
Joined: Dec 2005
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I've mucked up a yoke before; had to grind the clips and use a mic in an attempt to get them even. Had a slight vibration that made the rear view mirror fuzzy at 65 MPH. After that I just ended up buying a new half shaft.
Thread Starter
Team Owner
Joined: Oct 2004
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From: Springfield MO
St. Jude Donor '07
Well, I've been messing with them a bit again.
No needles are fallen in anywhere. I took one u-joint out of a halfshaft (and wrecked it in the process), it was fine (besides the destruction). I took one of the needles out of the now-broken cap, dropped it in one of the other caps and slid it back together to see how much it would be held out. I can guarantee the others are fine.
I powdercoated the halfshafts and drive flanges, so I took a dremel and cleaned out the groove where the clip rides. Now on the halfshaft that still has a joint in place, I can get both clips in after sanding one a bit, but the center part where you compress the clip sticks out a little. Is that normal?
I might mess around with the u-joints on the drive flange later tonight. They are each bolted back to their opposite part, so any flexingshould be minimized.
It really seems like either the u-joint caps or the clips are a tiny bit too thick. Nothing is binding but the clips are still giving me a headache.
No needles are fallen in anywhere. I took one u-joint out of a halfshaft (and wrecked it in the process), it was fine (besides the destruction). I took one of the needles out of the now-broken cap, dropped it in one of the other caps and slid it back together to see how much it would be held out. I can guarantee the others are fine.
I powdercoated the halfshafts and drive flanges, so I took a dremel and cleaned out the groove where the clip rides. Now on the halfshaft that still has a joint in place, I can get both clips in after sanding one a bit, but the center part where you compress the clip sticks out a little. Is that normal?
I might mess around with the u-joints on the drive flange later tonight. They are each bolted back to their opposite part, so any flexingshould be minimized.
It really seems like either the u-joint caps or the clips are a tiny bit too thick. Nothing is binding but the clips are still giving me a headache.
Safety Car
Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 3,725
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From: Minnesota
Originally Posted by I'm Batman
Norval, I burned one of the old joints out with the gas axe...that was an...interesting...experience. The old grease inside the joint body didn't like it too much.
Anyway, mine fit the same way. I had to get one of the clips in place and then drive the whole joint up against that side. The clip will distort a little but you should be able to get the other clip in as long as the groove is clean. You can use an old clip to clean it out. After you get the other side's clip in you can tap the joint toward it a little bit to even the joint out. It may seem a little tight but it'll loosen up after use.
Hope you can make sense of what I just said.
Thread Starter
Team Owner
Joined: Oct 2004
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From: Springfield MO
St. Jude Donor '07
Originally Posted by jdmick
That minor explosion can get your attention.
Anyway, mine fit the same way. I had to get one of the clips in place and then drive the whole joint up against that side. The clip will distort a little but you should be able to get the other clip in as long as the groove is clean. You can use an old clip to clean it out. After you get the other side's clip in you can tap the joint toward it a little bit to even the joint out. It may seem a little tight but it'll loosen up after use.
Hope you can make sense of what I just said.
Anyway, mine fit the same way. I had to get one of the clips in place and then drive the whole joint up against that side. The clip will distort a little but you should be able to get the other clip in as long as the groove is clean. You can use an old clip to clean it out. After you get the other side's clip in you can tap the joint toward it a little bit to even the joint out. It may seem a little tight but it'll loosen up after use.
Hope you can make sense of what I just said.
Right now I have one U-joint fully installed in one halfshaft with the clips in place but slightly distorted. I'll mess with the others (and buy one replacement u-joint) later.
